Bioware Austin.. damm more Dragons.. or Lightsabers?

[SnakeCharmer]

None of my intardnet buddies are excited about this.  At all.

The impression we've gotten is single player RPG with massive co-op side component, massively instanced.  Some cities are actually lobbies you can kind of run around in and be social or whatever.  Other planets and areas are big battlegrounds for the RvR (Sith vs Republic) stuff.

Margalis nailed exactly what I was thinking:  Why show shitty screenshots of something nearly everyone knew was coming?

Whoever at BioWare or Lucas Arts approved those screenies for the first look needs to be fired.

[Lantyssa]

Oh gods, you can ROMANCE your companions!  I'll never need to depend on anyone else for love ever again.

It took me approximately .3 seconds to see the eventual controversy with this.  I'll reread the "WoW Gaymers" thread for practice.

Yeah.  Mass Effect and the blue alien lesbian sex controversy was the first thing to cross my mind.

[Margalis]

I think this is the part where Schild reminds us all that the Star Wars team is barely related to Bioware proper and is composed of industry "veterans" with proven track-records of failure.

Man I feel mean today. Hopefully Secret of Evermore 2 won't get this kind of reaction.

[WindupAtheist]

I think this is the part where I remind you that you don't like the art of any RPG that doesn't look like it's meant for !

Because-its-expected fanboyism aside, meh. We'll see what comes out two years from now or whatever.

[Azaroth]

What is this talk of Secret of Evermore 2?

[Margalis]

Just me being dumb.

Edit: Not even WUA is excited. Grim.

[Lum]

Oh gods, you can ROMANCE your companions!  I'll never need to depend on anyone else for love ever again.

Romantic sequences have been a very popular part of every Bioware game since Baldur's Gate 2. People like getting it on with NPCs, who knew?

If you think KOTORO SWTOR romance quests are wacky, people have modded BG2 so that you could romance Imoen. You know, your sister.  

[UnSub]

So has every single fucking person on the planet forgotten that WOW is around five years old? I think by this point we should let go of the whole WOW graphics thing.

The principles of WoW are sound - design a game that can be run well on a whole host of PCs.

It doesn't have to look like an old cartoon though.

And yeah, why was this announced like this? "We can't really give the details, here are some general ideas, it'll be so fun you'll want to buy 5 copies, no beta or release date set. Thanks all for turning out!".

[WindupAtheist]

But Imoen's not your REAL sister! 

So do we know for a fact that it's going to do the AoC/GW thing with instancing public areas? Because that sort of shit takes the first M out of the MMO and really murders my interest in a title. Enough with trying to charge us monthly for Diablo 2, assholes.

[Simond]

Oh gods, you can ROMANCE your companions!  I'll never need to depend on anyone else for love ever again.

Romantic sequences have been a very popular part of every Bioware game since Baldur's Gate 2. People like getting it on with NPCs, who knew?

Also: Lesbian catgirl jedi in KOTOR.

[Surlyboi]

Is it me? Or do all the lightsabers look like they came straight from lego starwars?

[Righ]

That community can already be labeled shit:

Too many forums.

Perhaps they can lend Mythic some.

Not enough people staffing it.

Perhaps Mythic can lend them some.

The frothiest of fans.
That place is hell in a handbasket.

Did you forget WHA already?

You don't do experimental quasi-skills based or other inventive methods on big IP.

You don't do online games based on George Lucas' sacred IP.

Online games and Star Wars' IP were not meant to be mixed. Online games should offer players some small provision to express themselves, and IP in which everything is considered sacred by the owner isn't the best setting to enable that. This has the potential to sink Bioware.

[Taonas]

Online games and Star Wars' IP were not meant to be mixed. Online games should offer players some small provision to express themselves, and IP in which everything is considered sacred by the owner isn't the best setting to enable that. This has the potential to sink Bioware.

If thats the case, wouldn't Bioware be better of using Mass Effect as there MMO platform instead?

[Velorath]

None of my intardnet buddies are excited about this.  At all.

Do you mean the guys you used to play SWG with?  If so, I'd be completely shocked that they aren't looking forward to another SW MMO.

[schild]

So have you guys realized that Bioware Austin is neither Lucasarts or Bioware yet? I mean what did you expext from the unholy child of old SOE Austin and Wolfpack? Im still willing to give them 2 years to show something good, but knowing other things that haven't been announced all I can do is lol.

[voblat]

Very limited information to go on, but it appears to be single player KOTOR type questing, with a Guild Wars alike psuedo MMO RvR combat system tagged on to justify both the 'MMO' title and the inevitable monthly fee to go along with it.

There are already 'make jedi unlockable' threads in the main forums.

This is one Bioware can't win, because they simply cannot build a game to live up to the hype.

The fanboys will be dissapointed, and the rage will be legendary.

[Velorath]

So have you guys realized that Bioware Austin is neither Lucasarts or Bioware yet? I mean what did you expext from the unholy child of old SOE Austin and Wolfpack? Im still willing to give them 2 years to show something good, but knowing other things that haven't been announced all I can do is lol.

My lack of excitement is entirely due to the SW license.  I liked the KotOR games in spite of them being Star Wars related, not because of it.  Ever year Lucas churns out more SW product, it makes me more and more repulsed by anything SW related.

[WindupAtheist]

Do you mean the guys you used to play SWG with?  If so, I'd be completely shocked that they aren't looking forward to another SW MMO.

Oh fuck SnakeCharmer. He was running around for months being a butthurt ex-SWG partisan, cooking up these asinine theories on how the SW game and the MMO game were two separate things, all while every fucking person in the world knew that was ridiculous. Me, I'm not excited, but when do I ever get excited about any MMO?

[Merusk]

Yeah, I was sort of left wondering why they actually made this announcement myself.

I think they are closer than we think.  Started in 2005?  If it was WAR, it'd be out by now.  And you simply have to give the game some time to percolate in the public consciousness and generate buzz.  My prediction:  in the next couple months they'll say Christmas 2009, in June or July they'll push that back to a firm date of March 2010.

Or, the more likely scenario.  It WILL be Q3 2009 because that's when Lucasfilm will be releasing the "Star Wars Super Box Set" that includes S1 of the new Clone Wars Cartoon (and the movie), the Tartikovsky Clone Wars and a 30 day voucher for this game.  It will also coincide with the debut of the Star Wars Live Action TV series.   Of course, like all games with a set in stone release date (even with 4 years to develop: see all previous programming scheduling discussions)  it will be a buggy suckfest that people buy but it drives them to predictable frothing fanboy rage.

[UnSub]

Quoting myself from the dim dark past:

What difference does it make if it's announced to early or not?  How is that bad or good?

Step 1: Announce title.

Step 2: Fanbois rush the official forum in order to get the low player number that enhances the chance of getting into beta.

Step 3: Every armchair designer in the world pops on to any forum that includes the title in question to post up their half-assed ideas for how the game "should" be, and how it will fail if it is just "WoW in <insert location / costume>". The longer you leave the period between announcement and launch, the more these threads will be repeated.

Step 4: The developers announce features that they are 95% sure will appear in the final version. The length of time from announcement to launch sees that 95% chance drop in direct proportion.

Looking at the forums, I'm already right on a good number of points.

If the KOTORO anouncement is "yes, we are developing KOTORO and beta starts tomorrow" then Bioware would be doing it right.

They didn't. They are doing it wrong. It was actually better as a badly kept secret, because then it could be mysterious and attract hype without actually guaranteeing anything. Now, however, they'll have to quantify what they've been doing. The info dump today sounded a lot like a bunch of "here's some really cool ideas we thought of" but little in the way of actual implementation.

It also seems to me that SWOR is a title that removes a lot of Bioware's traditional strengths - the storytelling - and requires things they are traditionally weak at - real time combat systems, interesting non-combat systems, etc.

I think I'll stand by my 2011 predicted release date for SWOR.

[TripleDES]

How does that companion stuff work anyway? Is it mandatory to have one? If so, can you at least design him/her/it yourself or will you get some random generated NPC sidekick slapped there?

[Venkman]

I think this is the part where Schild reminds us all that the Star Wars team is barely related to Bioware proper and is composed of industry "veterans" with proven track-records of failure.

So have you guys realized that Bioware Austin is neither Lucasarts or Bioware yet? I mean what did you expext from the unholy child of old SOE Austin and Wolfpack?

*phew*. Glad we finally got that outta the way 

They had to announce for whatever reason so did. There's no details other than the ennui-inspiring screenshots, for which I expect much change thereafter. They're still trying for the younger SW fan and not the embedded veteran MMO player. And if they follow form (ie, learn from the past), this'll be a heavily contrived just-about-single-player MMO.

I think UnSub nailed it: "It also seems to me that SWOR is a title that removes a lot of Bioware's traditional strengths - the storytelling - and requires things they are traditionally weak at - real time combat systems, interesting non-combat systems, etc."

[Sunbury]

From the IGN Article linked above.

Unlike most MMOs, The Old Republic gives each character their own unique story.

...

The solution is to give each class its own story arc.

Uhh, so I guess its by class, not character?

Twelve full-time writers have been working on the content for this game for years already. The writing department was the first priority when it came to staffing so these writers have been working on the game longer than anyone.

Gawd, I can see the 'walls of text' already.  

BioWare is careful to point out that, though the classes are relatively insulated from each other in terms of content,

This doesn't even sound like an MMO.

there are places that you won't be able to go and things you won't be able to do unless you join a mixed party

Wait, now it does,  

(well not a quote, just a lot of talk about companions ...)

Why are they spending development time on companions IN AN MMO?!?!?!  Or is every class a pet class?

[Righ]

Or is every class a pet class?

Every class is a pet, led through the years of story writing on a tight leash.

[Nevermore]

Oh gods, you can ROMANCE your companions!  I'll never need to depend on anyone else for love ever again.

Star Wars: The Dating Sim? 

[Brogarn]

So with all this romance going on is SWTOR is pronounced "suitor"?

Meh. Probably funnier in my head.

[Zane0]

I would actually argue that real time combat is one of Bioware's biggest strengths. They have tons of experience making actiony hybrid systems out of what has traditionally been a turn based genre -- that's a quality of nearly all of their games. They do not, however, have any (historical) experience with sophisticated network architecture, any semblance of class balance, and yeah non-combat stuff.

[AcidCat]

My lack of excitement is entirely due to the SW license.  I liked the KotOR games in spite of them being Star Wars related, not because of it.  Ever year Lucas churns out more SW product, it makes me more and more repulsed by anything SW related.

That pretty much covers what I was going to say.

*Yawn*

[schild]

I would actually argue that real time combat is one of Bioware's biggest strengths.

You could, but it'd be bullshit.

[ashrik]

I'm just wondering why there is so much emphasis being placed on trying to create an unholy chimera beast of a single player and an MM rpg.

Do people really want this? The excitement of doing different quests than some other dude doesn't go much farther for me than the excitement of doing Orc quests while you do Troll ones. It's just something that I'm not interested in, regardless of whether I'm building my own unique storyline (ooooohhh ahhhh) or just building rep with a different faction.

I just don't think it works for the genre. I'll play Dragon Age when I want to be the hero of my personal domain. Maybe it's just me?

Edit: I can't wait for when companies stop saying "we have to be different than WoW" and just start trying to be better.

[Ghambit]

They should've just developed a Wiimote like system for 360/PS3 and made KOTORO for console, ala Force Unleashed.  It always seems like devs these days are trying to "dumb down" PC users into younger console users and it always seems to fail.  SWOR seems like one of these games so far.  Nothing groundbreaking.  Nothing inherently difficult about the game.  Neat story, supposedly.  And a decent amount of procedural action. = Console game for kids.  Now, if they just dug in and made it a console game and added Wii's version of Force Unleashed, we might've had something historic.... but nope, same ol' same ol.

There is one glimmer of "hope" in all this and that's they didnt deny there will be space combat.  But, they didnt confirm it either.  They also didnt really go into exactly how much sandboxey "control" we'll have over our own characters.  So far everything seems pretty treadmill, but maybe we'll be surprised.

In the end though, SW will always be the "short-bus" version of ST it seems.  I see no real push from Lucas or his cronies to really turn the franchise into something smart, compelling, and everlasting.

[Zane0]

You could, but it'd be bullshit.

If creating real time rpg combat systems (or real time with an underlying turn based structure if you want to mince words) is not a Bioware strength, I really can't say what is; unless you were to count creating heaps of generically serviceable static content as a virtue of sorts for an MMO.

But whatever, we shall see soon enough I am sure.

[Venkman]

Do people really want this?

It always seems like devs these days are trying to "dumb down" PC users into younger console users

This.

"We're definitely looking at the opportunity to bring the MMO experience to console, without question," Gibeau said

@ashirk: yes, people do want this. The MMO genre is defined by just about one type of player that WoW currently dominates in all unarguable sense. About the only place WoW is weak in the mass-market sense is the Hero's Journey portion (some would argue they're weak on RvR too which is technically true but thus far has had such a narrow market it's along the lines of complaining about weak/non-existent crafting in terms of relevance to Blizzard). Gear and XP are good, but players don't know their character beyond that. It hasn't mattered yet though, as it really didn't in everything between EQ1 and WoW either. Bioware was probably tapped because this is their strong suit (compared to other MMO devs anyway, maybe not the world all over).

This gives them direct access to consoles too, which may explain why we didn't see any UI at all in a "playable" game. WAR being your typical full-keyboard MMO I'd guess that never makes it to console in its current form. No fault to anyone, EA just bought into them a lot later well after that die was cast. Meanwhile, TOR can go that way alongside PC if designed as a console title first.

edit: fixed code stuff.

[TripleDES]

Do people really want this?

I for one would like more adventure/RPG like playstyle than whack-a-mole in a MMO.

[Endie]

Do people really want this?

I for one would like more adventure/RPG like playstyle than whack-a-mole in a MMO.

That's pretty much what DDO did.  With predictable results.