First Impressions

[Lantyssa]

I liked the ranger a lot better once I got a bow, starting with a throwing axe just seems odd to me, though the warhorn offhand was kinda cool.

Throwing Axe + Torch makes for an awesome combination.  But then Rangers have so many good styles that it's tough for me to pick two.  I'm going to end up with multiple ones because of this.

[Threash]

Well the Engineer seemed to have gotten a fairly hefty balance pass from the last time I played it. Both Pistol and Rifle actually seemed to be doing decent damage now and the new grenade kit was pretty awesome. But still too much randomness in the utility skills and turrets still suck from what I've read.

I'm hoping they have a similar look at Mesmers before launch too. Jon Peters has more or less said that the scepter sucks (which is really unfortunate as it's the first weapon you get) and they'll look at it. If they did that and made the illusions stick around after the target died for even a few seconds so we could engage another target with them it would help a lot. I've also seen it suggested numerous times on the forums that they separate clones from phantasms and let us have 3 clones and 1 phantasm out at a time. This would prevent phantasms getting used in shatters or being overwritten by clones like the scepter auto-attack one.

A conditions/crit build with double pistol and the burn/bleed on crits trait was just tearing the toughest classes to pieces last night.  I still have fun with Mesmers, in SPvP at least the clones cause so much chaos i routinely stood up to 2-3 people at once and if things got hairy i could always just stealth away better than a thief.

[Tmon]

I planned on playing an engineer when the game went live and didn't try one until this weekend.  It seemed ok for PVE but I wasn't terribly useful in WvW.  I'll probably go with a Warrior when the game goes live, and when alt-itis hits I'll get a ranger or an elementalist.  I'll probably do jewel crafting since jewelery doesn't drop nearly as often as weapons and armor and it isn't hugely expensive to level. 

[Sky]

I'm hoping they have a similar look at Mesmers before launch too. Jon Peters has more or less said that the scepter sucks (which is really unfortunate as it's the first weapon you get) and they'll look at it. If they did that and made the illusions stick around after the target died for even a few seconds so we could engage another target with them it would help a lot. I've also seen it suggested numerous times on the forums that they separate clones from phantasms and let us have 3 clones and 1 phantasm out at a time. This would prevent phantasms getting used in shatters or being overwritten by clones like the scepter auto-attack one.

Agreed, especially the phantasm bit. As far as weapons, I was doing sword/pistol and staff in the last BWE. Didn't play long enough to get into much this time around.

Love the class, especially my funkalicious human's look. Hope it gets some love quickly.

I'm really bummed that I'm so into TSW right now, hopefully that wears off for GW2 launch :) And what kind of world is it where I like THREE mmo titles in a year (more or less)?

[statisticalfool]

I completed Queensdale fully. Hunting down the vistas and last few hearts by warping around the map was actually fun, I'll have to say. The AH seems a few tweaks from being totally nice, but after the nightmare of D3, it's a welcome relief.

I grew to like my warrior a lot more, for one thing: Greatsword / Sword + Warhorn is just kind of absolutely crazy run speed, for anybody complaining about that. Activate the swiftness buff, swap, do your spin thing (at enhanced speed), then do your super dash (if you're not near any enemies). You just tear across the landscape. And when I get to where I need to go, I just swap in my real set from inventory, and I'm good to go.

That said, I was kind of disappointed to get to the next area (whatever the one to the south was), and just find more: "Here's a heart. Kill centaurs."

I'm still on the fence about whether to keep my preorder in.

I didn't get the chance to try crafting at all: is it useful?

[kildorn]

Crafting is pretty damned awesome.

[Mosesandstick]

I found crafting really fun.

[KallDrexx]

Anecdotal, but I couldn't get any of my friends to like this.  Mostly it was a lack of direction that turned them off but they also didn't like how the game didn't put you in an instance for the first bit (so you can actually try the skill system out without getting kill stealed all the time), but also by the time they started getting the hang of their skills they got really turned off by finding a lootable weapon that was better than their current one.  When they equipped it all their skills changed and they had to re-learn a whole new set of skills. AT that point they gave up, and any attempts to explain the purpose of it just left them shrugging and not really caring at that point.

[Der Helm]

...getting kill stealed all the time)

 

[Threash]

I just found out about racial skills, Charzooka? holy fuck i want.  And yes i had a friend quit after about 15 mins over the lack of direction and weapon skill thing also, then she promptly went back to EQ2.

[Draegan]

For those playing the Mesmer, they are going to go through the most balance/work (I think) of any of the classes.  There some post by Jon Peters on the beta boards talking about it .

[Kitsune]

I spent most of my time with mesmer and ranger this go round, classes that I'd mostly ignored up until now, and wound up very impressed with both.  Monsters were consistently attacking the clones rather than me, so they were actually providing a benefit.  The ranger's leaf dog was dying more often that I'd like still, but his weapon skills were universally awesome.

[Shatter]

For those playing the Mesmer, they are going to go through the most balance/work (I think) of any of the classes.  There some post by Jon Peters on the beta boards talking about it .

I was planning to roll Mesmer but wasnt impressed this round.  I saw the dev post on it but in my search for another class I fell in love with Thief lol

[Phred]

Anecdotal, but I couldn't get any of my friends to like this.  Mostly it was a lack of direction that turned them off but they also didn't like how the game didn't put you in an instance for the first bit (so you can actually try the skill system out without getting kill stealed all the time), but also by the time they started getting the hang of their skills they got really turned off by finding a lootable weapon that was better than their current one.  When they equipped it all their skills changed and they had to re-learn a whole new set of skills. AT that point they gave up, and any attempts to explain the purpose of it just left them shrugging and not really caring at that point.

These totally sound like the people who are encouraging devs to put out more WoW clones. Just tell them it's not for them and get new friends. And lol at killstealed. My friend Crowen had some guy bitching him out for kill stealing as well as someone racing for a resource node.

[Abelian75]

I dunno, man.  It's kind of a game's job to make you like it.  I think there are enough "I don't get it" comments that it's fair to say the game doesn't do the best job at showing you why it's fun.  Now sure, a new and different game is going to tend to be like this, because the developers haven't learned exactly how to teach people how to play this kind of game yet, because it hasn't been done a million times before.  But it's still something to think about improving.

[01101010]

Now sure, a new and different game is going to tend to be like this, because the developers haven't learned exactly how to teach people how to play this kind of game yet, because it hasn't been done a million times before.  But it's still something to think about improving.

This is precisely why I liked this game. It is not like you have 4 toolbars filled or going to be filled with abilities and other shit. One bar, 5 main buttons for your weapon. The game is frankly easy to play, but putting together which weapon to use for those 5 skills is where it gets involved - if you want it to be. Otherwise, equip sword, target mob, hit buttons, watch the show.

[Evildrider]

Does the game even have any type of tutorial?  I can't remember even seeing one.  The game doesn't do a good job at explaining itself.

[KallDrexx]

These totally sound like the people who are encouraging devs to put out more WoW clones. Just tell them it's not for them and get new friends. And lol at killstealed. My friend Crowen had some guy bitching him out for kill stealing as well as someone racing for a resource node.

Get over yourself.  The game has a lot of very different mechanics and requires training to get out of the normal MMO mentality.  At first approach this game does absolutely nothing to help with that transition.  No other game changes abilities based on weapons, nor has the same vein of abilities.  Neither does any other game have the same questing mentality.  The game should make it obvious on why things happen and the correct way to approach the game instead of going "here's something completely different, good luck".

Also, he was fully aware that "killsteal" doesn't mean less XP/loot, but that doesn't change the fact that if you are trying to figure out how abilities work and how one ability should be used compared to another, if people keep coming around and killing the mob you are working on it makes it really hard to get a grasp on the skills.  That was his complaint.

He never once in his complaints to me told me the game was bad, he complained the game did absolutely nothing to explain to him how things are supposed to work and help him understand the mechanics and thus he decided that after 3 hours he wasn't going to buy it at launch.

*edit* Also if I hadn't had 2 and a half years of GW1 experience I definitely wouldn't have taken the time to understand the mechanics and see fully what the game has to offer.  It doesn't do a good job of making you realize why the game is amazing right away.  Instead it does nothing to explain the abilities and weapons, do one quest then go "hey check out some of these areas for potentially interesting things to do".

[Modern Angel]

Maybe your friend is stupid?

Like, I dunno anymore. I get it. Just like I said months ago, I was one of the ones who supplied feedback that TUTORIALS NEED TO BE BETTER/MORE OBVIOUS. So they added a bunch of NPCs to explain shit and more pop-ups with big arrows pointing to shit saying THIS WORKS LIKE THIS. And it could be a little better, probably, with some more interactive shit in the first bit.

But then I'm seeing more people than not doing okay. It's not like this shit is impossible, or even hard. It's an MMO. It's McDonald's hard.

[01101010]

Get over yourself.  The game has a lot of very different mechanics and requires training to get out of the normal MMO mentality.  At first approach this game does absolutely nothing to help with that transition.  No other game changes abilities based on weapons, nor has the same vein of abilities.  Neither does any other game have the same questing mentality.  The game should make it obvious on why things happen and the correct way to approach the game instead of going "here's something completely different, good luck".

Also, he was fully aware that "killsteal" doesn't mean less XP/loot, but that doesn't change the fact that if you are trying to figure out how abilities work and how one ability should be used compared to another, if people keep coming around and killing the mob you are working on it makes it really hard to get a grasp on the skills.  That was his complaint.

He never once in his complaints to me told me the game was bad, he complained the game did absolutely nothing to explain to him how things are supposed to work and help him understand the mechanics and thus he decided that after 3 hours he wasn't going to buy it at launch.

Well technically, FFXIV did the weapon skills based on weapon thing and it is technically a game. But no, this game didn't hold your hand in the beginning and teach you step by step how to do stuff. Perhaps it is because it was beta and not a demo... and on release perhaps they'll have a small tutorial with pictures of button presses and skill demonstrations. To me, it felt refreshing - having some MMO knowledge on how basics work and then exploring not only the map but skills and my character... but I get where you are coming from in your post and can see the wtf-ness to it.

[KallDrexx]

Maybe your friend is stupid?

Like, I dunno anymore. I get it. Just like I said months ago, I was one of the ones who supplied feedback that TUTORIALS NEED TO BE BETTER/MORE OBVIOUS. So they added a bunch of NPCs to explain shit and more pop-ups with big arrows pointing to shit saying THIS WORKS LIKE THIS. And it could be a little better, probably, with some more interactive shit in the first bit.

But then I'm seeing more people than not doing okay. It's not like this shit is impossible, or even hard. It's an MMO. It's McDonald's hard.

Whatever, I'm not going to get into a full blown argument.  The point isn't that it's hard, the point is that it doesn't really explain gameplay fundamentals (not talking about UI hand-holding here) that are core to enjoying the game in a reasonable time frame before a reasonable person goes "fuck it I just had a steam sale with a shit ton of other games to play"

[Lantyssa]

I dunno, man.  It's kind of a game's job to make you like it.  I think there are enough "I don't get it" comments that it's fair to say the game doesn't do the best job at showing you why it's fun.  Now sure, a new and different game is going to tend to be like this, because the developers haven't learned exactly how to teach people how to play this kind of game yet, because it hasn't been done a million times before.  But it's still something to think about improving.

People are so used to doing things differently there there is no amount of tutorial one can give to show how to "play it right".  The only way is to play until it clicks, which is something I've heard over and over.

(Not that it can't use some better tutorials.)

[Dark_MadMax]

All in all I can see GW2 becoming my main game:

- world is big and interesting to explore.  So I will play at least to see it in entirety or close to it
- many classes are innovative and very fun. Right now thief, mesmer and engineer are 3 of my favorites . Arena really did a great job with those 3 making them feel unique and fresh
- WvWvW has a lot of potential if played in a great organized guild. There is potential for tactics, organization and skill. Of course there is a caveat that in a pug setting it is mostly brainless zerg with bashing walls/gates (and you dont even realize whats going on if you just tag along wiht organized group, without actually hearing the teamspeak)


Game is far from perfect, but its  stable and looks pretty finished, it already is a huge success (over 3.5 mill pre-orders) and its mostly a question how much of a long term success it will be. If Arena.net builds on this succcess and continues improving game I think it will have great future

Right now imho those are 3 areas of the most concern:

-class balance in spvp/www . Pendulum swings wide and hard. many classes,skills, weapon sets and traits  are either a must or completely useless .
-www experience must have better tools for group organization. Right now its not existing. If they fail to give easy to use and convenient tools to players only the most hardcore guilds will enjoy it. for casual player it will be boring zergolagfest
-long term pve . I cant really comment on this as I havent experienced any of it. It just a fear that it might be same thing as rift - dynamic events are merely a gimmick a mere 1 tier step up for previous iteration. From what I seen so far pve was boring and easy faceroll I wouldnt bother with if not for exploration of the world aspect ,but obviously that could be different endgame

[Kageru]

I don't think a longer tutorial would help much, it's somewhat hard to describe the design approach in game terms that early without boring people. They start you off with one skill, one weapon and a clear direction and most of it does come together. They've already put lots of really obvious hints and arrows all over the starter period. That said I don't like the approach that tries to build energy through a tutorial boss fight, it can feel pressured which amplifies the confusion.

EQ/EQ2 people are the most resistant to change anyway. Most of them have grown up with SOE and anything that is not EQ causes them to squawk in confusion and horror. I mean who else would still be playing it at this point?

[01101010]

Thinking about the first little step through - it teaches you all the fundamentals of how to play. However, it just drops you in the situations without any 'hey, you learned a new skill, press key 2 to try it out.' Bigger example is the instant death the first boss - all the sudden, you are dead and have the death ability bar in front of you without any explanation of wtf just happened and what all those death bar abilities actually do. Ends up being a spam whatever button is not on CD. It could be a little clearer... like this ability attacks and if you are successful you will rally. You only really figure it out if you mouse over and read the tooltips - though that suffers from the time limit before you die in an already tense situation.

It should be a little clearer... but it is not completely foreign. Just has a higher learning curve.

[Nevermore]

It's a stark contrast to GW1, which had some nice tutorials.  Factions especially, since I still actually remember exactly how that one went.

The insta-death on that first boss in GW2 is going to be very off putting for a lot of players.

[Dark_MadMax]

It's a stark contrast to GW1, which had some nice tutorials.  Factions especially, since I still actually remember exactly how that one went.

The insta-death on that first boss in GW2 is going to be very off putting for a lot of players.

After 2 bwes, and 2 dozen intro quests I still didnt figure out wtf is going with the first boss. I died in 70% of time and dont even know wtf happened.  Seems he has some sort of cleave at close range as all characters who died were melee. But I also died on engineer and survived on warrior once. So who the hell knows

[Arinon]

The insta-death on that first boss in GW2 is going to be very off putting for a lot of players.

I didn't realize you were supposed to die on those and I played like three different races!

Biggest disappointment overall is that WoW is still king when it comes to instant feedback and snappy responses on ability use.  You'd think a game focused on PvP could do better.  Not a deal-breaker by any stretch but it still feels a little muddy to me.

Loved the WvW stuff that I got to try.  Definitely gave me the old DAoC vibe.  It also cemented in my mind the need to find a crew to run with that is marginally organized with voice chat and all that.

To you people loving on Rangers, do the pets ever reach a point that they don't die to a stiff breeze?  Bad enough that the pathing is shit, but pet death is by far the most annoying thing about the class and the reason I totally gave up on playing one.  At least on the Necro they are designed to be expendable.

[01101010]

The insta-death on that first boss in GW2 is going to be very off putting for a lot of players.

I didn't realize you were supposed to die on those and I played like three different races!

Biggest disappointment overall is that WoW is still king when it comes to instant feedback and snappy responses on ability use.  You'd think a game focused on PvP could do better.  Not a deal-breaker by any stretch but it still feels a little muddy to me.

Loved the WvW stuff that I got to try.  Definitely gave me the old DAoC vibe.  It also cemented in my mind the need to find a crew to run with that is marginally organized with voice chat and all that.

To you people loving on Rangers, do the pets ever reach a point that they don't die to a stiff breeze?  Bad enough that the pathing is shit, but pet death is by far the most annoying thing about the class and the reason I totally gave up on playing one.  At least on the Necro they are designed to be expendable.

They don't really tell you you are supposed to die. It is more a 'here, we are going to kill you to show you what happens and what it looks like and the options you have to come back.' And you only really figure that out when you play the intro a few times and see the trend.

As for pets being perma-dead. I read on the forums this weekend that you have to spec into beastmastery to really beef them up. From what I read, they get pretty tanky from that point... of course that is at the expense of other specs, so not really that far outta line.

[kildorn]

It's a stark contrast to GW1, which had some nice tutorials.  Factions especially, since I still actually remember exactly how that one went.

The insta-death on that first boss in GW2 is going to be very off putting for a lot of players.

After 2 bwes, and 2 dozen intro quests I still didnt figure out wtf is going with the first boss. I died in 70% of time and dont even know wtf happened.  Seems he has some sort of cleave at close range as all characters who died were melee. But I also died on engineer and survived on warrior once. So who the hell knows

All the intro bosses have an instant kill move they use randomly, that usually spawns an add.

The point of it (which isn't really explained enough) is to teach you the downed mechanic.

[Phred]

I dunno, man.  It's kind of a game's job to make you like it.  I think there are enough "I don't get it" comments that it's fair to say the game doesn't do the best job at showing you why it's fun.  Now sure, a new and different game is going to tend to be like this, because the developers haven't learned exactly how to teach people how to play this kind of game yet, because it hasn't been done a million times before.  But it's still something to think about improving.

People are so used to doing things differently there there is no amount of tutorial one can give to show how to "play it right".  The only way is to play until it clicks, which is something I've heard over and over.

(Not that it can't use some better tutorials.)

And a way to turn off the annoying tutorial popups please.

[Phred]

To you people loving on Rangers, do the pets ever reach a point that they don't die to a stiff breeze?  Bad enough that the pathing is shit, but pet death is by far the most annoying thing about the class and the reason I totally gave up on playing one.  At least on the Necro they are designed to be expendable.

As I said in the discussion folllowing the first beta weekend, get a bear or any of the other animals with 400+ vitality. Get the regen and toughness passives. Problem essentially solved. I solo veterans with this. I'm hoping the one with 400+ toughness can tank too.

[Phred]

These totally sound like the people who are encouraging devs to put out more WoW clones. Just tell them it's not for them and get new friends. And lol at killstealed. My friend Crowen had some guy bitching him out for kill stealing as well as someone racing for a resource node.

Get over yourself.

I can accept that some games weren't targetted to my playstyle. What's your problem?

[Nevermore]

All the intro bosses have an instant kill move they use randomly, that usually spawns an add.

The point of it (which isn't really explained enough at all) is to teach you the downed mechanic.

If they want to teach players that (and they should), then it needs to be in such a way as to not make the player feel like she failed for no discernible reason.  Going back to Factions, there's one spot where your instructor dude basically says 'I'm going to kill you now so you can see what happens' and he does, and then explains the resurrection shrine thing and the death debuff penalty and all that jazz.  You know what's going to happen and you know why it's happening.

In GW2 they throw you into what looks to be some kind of epic fight, except then you die seemingly at random and are left to figure out on your own what to do.  Anyone who's ever played any video game before is automatically going to think they somehow failed (I died!) and then are left to try to figure out in the heat of the moment what to do next.  It's one of the single biggest mistakes they made in my opinion, since it turns people off right at the beginning.

[Sky]

I always wondered what happened there, but noticed the mob spawn near me and attack it while down, and pop up every time.

+1 for paying attention.