Roaming frigate op Sunday 27th - Op over many died but kills scored, too

[Akkori]

Was a pretty cool first exposure to large scale combat in Eve. I concur with the others about commmunication, but it was all frigates so no big deal I guess. We do need one clear (sorry Edie, not you) voice giving orders. I look forward to getting my new system together and being able to get better than .25 FPS while near a battle.

[dwindlehop]

That Daredevil km better be posted when I check! :)

I don't think we had a lack of communication, I think we had a lack of intel. I'm reasonably certain the ships that Endie spotted were not the ones who killed us, though only Endie knows for sure. I would have scouted out the gate if I had gotten ahead of our fleet. I did get into Paala with 45% structure left, though, so it wasn't a total wipe. ;)

The whole op just underscores the basics that we're saying on the forums. If you get stuck in a bubble, MWDing out or into the gate is your best chance for survival. I'm pretty sure no one got in on the Daredevil kill who didn't have MWD fitted. And your first job as a grunt is to stay with your gang, because otherwise you are a soft target.

Gf all, and thanks to Endie and Slayerik for logistics and FCing. Now x up for the "buy Endie a decent mike and a good Internet connection" donation drive. 

[Morat20]

Hey, I lost a Maulus and deleted the killmail. Can anyone add a loss to the killboard manually? (It would have been the same time as a bunch of OTHER frigate losses -- stupid smartbombs). It was fitted as follows:

EANM 1
Small Armor Rep I

2xRemote Sensor Dampener I
1MN MWD

2x75mm Gatling Rail Is and Antimatter charges
1 Small Remote Armor Repper

Drones:
2x Hobgoblin SD-300 ECM drones

Lost about 1000 charges of antimatter ammo in the cargo. Sorry for deleting the mail -- I habitually delete insurance mail after I get it.

[Endie]

Thanks to all for coming, and to Slayerik for FCing for the first half of the show when I was getting dropped all the time.  As promised, we went to 0.0, but everyone was learning the ropes, warping comedically over half the galaxy, chattering on TS and so on, so we were moving slowly enough for those guys to get a gang together.  That said, there is no shame in losing our bunch of frigates to a smartbombing typhoon and two bhaalgorns (those are "rare", prestige ships).  We even had the typhoon nearly in structure...

Poor Slayerik was in the impossible situation that he was dropped in it without knowing the region while I was the person who had all the maps and routes looked up.  As it was, I promised mass death so it was a good way to go out at the end of the first run.

The second time out, we still had 22 people, and everyone was pretty well focussed.  We got into a good routine, everyone pretty much knew what to expect, we nailed an assault frigate and generally developed a nice, easy rhythm that saw us moving much faster, losing a total of three tailing groups easily enough, and by the end everyone knew what to do, we got to safespots quickly when hunted, and every one of you kill-hungry bastards was there before me to the assault frigate kill  

I'll definitely run another if people want: I think we really need more focus on ewar next time, as we were light on RSDs, as a gang that size can have someone unable to lock beyond a few km if we all fit range-dampening scripts.  I had a laugh, and it was great FCing experience for me.  I hope our new members got a taste of piracy and pvp, too: Eve pvp is a big blur at first and it only slows down when you get used to it...

And yes, I will try to get a decent TS connection going so people can understand me more easily next time!

[Thrawn]

It also didn't help at the begining that we didn't even really get going until like an hour late because we had people coming in late, people that weren't really ready etc....

The second run out after everyone had gotten reset and we rolled out all prepared went very very smooth.  Thanks much to everyone that helped get this going.

[Kitsune]

Different radio procedures would have helped a LOT for the first half of the run; I spent most of my time being very confused about whether or not we were jumping.  I'd hear "*mumblemumble* jump *mumble*", people would jump, then "You weren't supposed to jump."  The goonfleet video had it right with the whole 'gate is green' 'gate is red' thing, because despite Endie's horrid voice connection I could still catch 'green' or 'red' and work out what was going on.  Saying anything with the word jump in it is dangerous, because TS can make it tricky to tell whether someone just said, "Okay, jump.", "Don't jump.", or "Scout jump."

Also in the beginning, we had one person saying to do one thing on TS, another person saying to do something in text, and a third person entering commands in broadcast.  That didn't help.  We got our act together once we had one clearly-defined FC and nobody else was typing or broadcasting; the whole dying thing stopped at that point.

But learning experiences all around; I went in with platinum insurance on a cheaply-fitted ship expecting to lose it, so I have no frets about the thing.

[bhodi]

Here's a screenie of us warping in on a gate on the second run out. You can't see it in the picture, but this was captured as everyone was coming out of warp in in a very slightly staggered clump. It looked very cool and very, very intimidating. I wished I had thought to take more, Next time we go out I'll take a whole bunch.

We had about double that number for the first run, so great job guys! Those of you who missed the second run because you had to go, it really did go a lot smoother and I hope you come back for more. Maybe this coming weekend.

[ajax34i]

I had lots of fun, and gained quite a bit of insight, thank you.  I was grinning like a kid after jumping through each gate: as we dispersed to the belts, the sound of that many frigates uncloaking was pretty awesome.

If we're going to do this again, I'd like to suggest, if we do another "the corp will give you ships" operation that we hand multiple ships out one day before the op, or a few hours before the op.  It's very nice to have 3-4 ships already fitted waiting in station, so when we die we can just pay clone, make next ship active, and voila: ready.  I'd say distribute frigates beforehand, figure out any issues with weapons, ammo, modules, etc, so that we can go when it's time to go.

Or, we could have a "bring your own ships" op.  Dole out enough cash from the wallet for everyone to buy 2-3 replacement T1 frigs and fittings, and let us learn logistics by moving our own stuff. 

There was a spot 3 jumps (high sec) away from Reisen that had Griffins and Badgers Mk II for sale, so I lucked out: bought 3 griffins and an indy to haul them, and some spare modules, and so I was pretty much set.  Now I can sell the indy and the 2 griffins that survived, if we're going to start from a different place, and make most of my money back.

[5150]

In other news....

Don't worry you didn't miss any Aces action as there wasn't any, they stayed holed up in their station all night, 9 guys camped in by 2 of ours

[Endie]

I had lots of fun, and gained quite a bit of insight, thank you.  I was grinning like a kid after jumping through each gate: as we dispersed to the belts, the sound of that many frigates uncloaking was pretty awesome.

Me too, and I've been in 200 ship fleets.  I just love when everyone warps to a location at once, and you see this rush of ships piling out of warp, and you know whoever you are landing on top of is going to be seeing red all over his overview and totally panicking.  That assault frigate is an example: he must have seen the first frigate and thought "heheh easy meat", then another turned up and he'll have been "that's cool, I can deal", then 19 or 20 more are all jumping in from every direction and all he can see is argh.. death.

If we're going to do this again, I'd like to suggest, if we do another "the corp will give you ships" operation that we hand multiple ships out one day before the op, or a few hours before the op.

Yep, that was another one of my learning points from the evening: it may only take three minutes or so to get fittings and a ship to someone, but if ten people all need ships at once that's not going to work while keeping the pace up.  I really need to pre-fit the ships like Goonfleet does, so I need to train up racial frigate 3 for all four races (easy enough).

[dbltnk]

1.) It was fun. Learned a lot of stuff. Even managed to hit one or two ships. =D

2.) Getting blown up and podded at the same time by a smartbomb was fun, too. *g*

3.) Maybe you could set up the next run on a Saturday, that would allow me to stay longer.

[tazelbain]

*pro tip* You can't lock on to a target while under gate stealth, not even if you ctrl-click a hundred times.

[Hoax]

Firstly thank yous & props:

Endie, who obviously spent a bunch of time researching some routes/areas, doing a ton of hauling, setting up threads, motivating, explaining shit, really going from a newb perspective as much as possible and then taking attitude from some people over his voice quality on ts and/or not giving them exactly the right ship fittings at exactly the right time with a smile.

Slayer, who obviously works with much more competent people most of the time, but was a great sport when thrust into the role without warning.

Krakrock, who was our broadcaster for the 2nd run, did a hell of a job and made it super easy for everyone to move together.

Fucking Bhodi, who I had to edit in here, mostly because he's a Caldari flying hooker, who was our scout even in his pod (only loss of the 2nd run I believe) and relayed good info quickly for all of us at great personal risk. 

Our tackler MVP's!  Daala and Nee, nee, neesomethingorother.  Nice work, I didn't even make it the Daredevil but I did run into the AF shortly before he blew because I forgot to switch from approach to orbit...  Good job to those two.

Props also to everyone who stuck around (most of you) after the first ship loss, I know some hadn't rebound clones but we lost a bunch because even losing a provided frig stings enough that people want to slink off to do safer stuff.  Everyone who stuck around was rewarded with a much smoother op for a variety of factors but in no small part it was because finally we had 20 people on the same page & paying attention.  Bravo for that.  It was night and day the difference in how many people were properly aligned, we didn't have one person jump early I don't think, people warped to the right places.  Credit to our FC's for adjusting the delivery system on orders but also credit all the pilots who were doing a much better job of less chatter and following them.

***

Thoughts from me (heh, I know I'll shut up really soon).

Hopefully everyone learned how to align and why it is so important, it will save the fuck out of your life if you watch local and align when you see someone fishy.  For reals.  Its vital for almost every part of eve.  The other crucial crucial crucial thing is everyone should have a feel for how and why to fuck with your overview settings.  Please if you don't ask in f13 right away about overview, if nobody answers wait for me to be online and I'll walk you through it.  I also hope that people gained a good understanding of the red timer and what it means, the differences between hi-sec, lowsec and 0.0 and the gate cloak.  All of these things will help you to have less "wtf why'd I get faceraped?" moments while flying expensive ships you built/bought with blood sweat and tears.

All in all I had a ton of fun, its my first eve pvp as a nonsmoker which was rough and I found the second part after I had some beers on hand to go much easier on the heart.  I want to say my fault for participating in the too much non-fc chatter on TS in the early going and say it was tons of fun flying with yall.  Everything everyone else mentioned being cool (visually and esp the sounds of us moving) was really fucking cool.  I'm not really jazzed or disappointed on the kills front, thankful we got someone but more importantly with people knowing more, we can kill the fuck out of A8's and whoever comes after them on our empire rampage with a more efficient facestab to getting noobed ratio.

[Endie]

...Well-observed comments...

Thanks for picking those people out, Hoax, and you're spot on about each.  Bhodii did great to hang around and scout for us despite losing his ship, and gave really good info which made FCing much easier.  And the fact that it wasnewbie tacklers who got us the second and third kills shows what we were all saying: get into a tackling frigate and ruin somebody's day, even if they are in a T2 or faction ship.

I've posted a thread for a new op if people are interested: PvP in Eve really does get way easier the more you do it, so come along and apply your new, piratical knowledge.

[tazelbain]

2 things:
In the great smart bomb massacre of '08, I got totally screwed by not know you can't lock targets while stealthed.  It was so chaotic by time I got a lock I was almost dead.

Is there an easier way to align, finding the thing on the list and then looking for it in space seems to take forever.

[dwindlehop]

You don't have to look for it in space. You can find it in your right click menu or on your overview and warp to it then cancel the warp with ctl+space. If it's the gate you're autopiloting to, you can engage AP, then ctl+space to stop before you warp.

Presumably there's something smart you can do with the broadcast message itself, but I've never found it, if there is.

[lac]

Putting in an 'align to' menu item is such an obviously useful feature it will probably never make it into the game...

You sure feel like a twat trying to rotate your camera in every possible angle to try and figure out where the bloody gate might be.

[Morat20]

Putting in an 'align to' menu item is such an obviously useful feature it will probably never make it into the game...

You sure feel like a twat trying to rotate your camera in every possible angle to try and figure out where the bloody gate might be.

I use "warp to" and then immediately hit ctrl-space -- generally it fires my engines and rotates me enough that I'm now aimed in roughly the right direction. Just click "full throttle" at that point and you're close enough to alignment for jazz (and at the very least, you can now SEE the target on your screen if you want to align better).

[IainC]

I believe the way AU do it is that the guy in charge of travel calls the next align point on TS along with a quick description of how to find it relative to the sun. So '9 o'clock far' would mean way off to the direct left of the sun and so forth. Even if you can't find the exact thing, you can double click in space in that general direction and only have a small correction to make for warp.

[Ookii]

Not to derail guys but sorry about the TS server, it's been increased to 50some odd people, so you all should be able to fit AND have very good voice quality (hopefully, we do have a dual core server).

If you guys ever want to reserve the TS server for one of you're little fleet excursions just send me a PM and we'll password it for YOUR pleasure.

[Viin]

The fleet commander can have everyone align to a target, without warping. Why it's not an option for everyone's personal, I donno.

[Morat20]

The fleet commander can have everyone align to a target, without warping. Why it's not an option for everyone's personal, I donno.

I saw the broadcast of "Align to XXXX", but didn't know if it did anything.

[Viin]

I saw the broadcast of "Align to XXXX", but didn't know if it did anything.

If it's just broadcasted (rather than commanded) you have to right click the message and accept the align order. Or the fleet commander can force it by doing 'Fleet: Align to ..' vs 'broadcast: align to..'.

[Endie]

What I was doing in the second part was trying to say "just below the moon" or "just above the sun", but my voice connection was so poor that I imagine that was lost a lot.  We were also tending to do less aligning, and more "jump in, burst out to all belts, jump to the next gate".

One thing you can do is right click on the gate in your overview, then choose set waypoint/destination (I forget which word it is).  That gives you a one-jump autopilot route to that system, and you look around the edges of your screen for a yellow circle: the hud symbol for the gate is highlighted in yellow.

[Slayerik]

I want to say thanks as well to bhodi for putting so much time into you. Mad props. Next time I'll try not to get so stressed, and Hoax I find it funny about your smoking comment. Basically, i quit like 4 months ago. The hard times arent when I drink, or when I drive or after I eat...its after some intense ass PVP in Eve. That tells ya something right there heheh.

[Simond]

That said, there is no shame in losing our bunch of frigates to a smartbombing typhoon and two bhaalgorns (those are "rare", prestige ships).  We even had the typhoon nearly in structure...

Wait, you had people using bhaalgorns to fight against a newbie frigate op? 
Suggestion: Name your ships "Bait 1", "Bait 2" and so on next time. 

[Endie]

Wait, you had people using bhaalgorns to fight against a newbie frigate op? 
Suggestion: Name your ships "Bait 1", "Bait 2" and so on next time. 

In fact it was two bhaalgorns and an absolution, but the last guy swapped into the navy smartbombing typhoon.  They also called in (on the gates I scouted in my covops) a heavy interdictor and two HACs.  Presumable the third gate had someone on it too.  Then they had the cheek to complement us on a "good fight".

[lac]

navy smartbombing typhoon

my killmail said 'large true shansha' :)

[Endie]

navy smartbombing typhoon

my killmail said 'large true shansha' :)

Man, that was one expensive rack of smartbombs.  Suddenly, the fact that my ship stood up to four or five blasts is more impressive.

[Simond]

One of you should fit a cynogen and have some ozone in your hold, next time.

[Slayerik]

Mine said Amarr Navy SB, and I saw a domination on one. He had a buncha faction SBs.

[Morat20]

That said, there is no shame in losing our bunch of frigates to a smartbombing typhoon and two bhaalgorns (those are "rare", prestige ships).  We even had the typhoon nearly in structure...

Wait, you had people using bhaalgorns to fight against a newbie frigate op? 
Suggestion: Name your ships "Bait 1", "Bait 2" and so on next time. 

I like the PvP experience to properly parse that comment. Further explanation? :)

Also: I brought the wrong damn drones. I'll bring the right ones next time (and I could have escaped that damn attack if I'd warped instantly instead of trying to tank and get enough speed that he couldn't track me. Forgot that button was MWD and not AB -- the bhaalgorn didn't have a damn problem hitting me once I pegged the MWD).

[ajax34i]

I think the "bait" comment, like the "cyno and fuel" comment, refer to making it seem as if the frigates just destroyed were the scouts for a much larger fleet waiting somewhere, ready to attack.  A way to make the gankers go "oh shit" and run away after the gank.

Or, a joke.