Revelations 3 chat

[Morat20]

So how do the blackops actually work?


A Cov-Ops sneaks in, opens a blackops only cyno, then a blackops opens up a cov-ops jump portal and your little stealth fleet all jump through into the blackops only cyno?


That is... mean.

Fuck, I just switched goals after looking at the Gallente Black Ops ship. I have a new destiny. :)

[Simond]

Now they need to make iterion V a harmonics 2 capable vessel:P

Also, it's not stealth when you show up nice and dandy in local.

That's a strategic advantage:
"Tum te tum, time to mine some sweet, sweet ark in this safe system"
*Black ops squadron jumps in, local spikes*
"Oh holy crap. Run, run!"
*Safespot&cloak/dock at station*
"Hm...it's been half an hour and nobody's been attacked. Wonder if they're just trying to scare us?"
*Waits another half-hour"
"They must just be trying to scare us"
*waits a bit longer*
"OK, bugger this. I'm tired of waiting"
*undocks & warps back to belt*
"Tum te tum, time to mine some sweet, sweet...ohshi-"

The goal for blackops squads shouldn't be "Lol, we ganked X ships" but "Lol, we locked down enemy_system for Y hours/days/weeks, stopping them from ratting or mining".

Other than camp avoidance, and cloak-griefing, I don't really get Black Ops. Not with their pricetag at least.

You'll see, soon enough.

[Nevermore]

"Tum te tum, time to mine some sweet, sweet ark in this safe system"
*Black ops squadron jumps in, local spikes*
"Oh holy crap. Run, run!"

*LOCKDOWN!!!*

[ajax34i]

Right, so the miner might be playing the patience game ("ok I'll out-wait these guys and do nothing for the next 3 hours") now and then.  But the Black Ops pilot is signing up to fly this ship and participate in "out-waiting" gameplay constantly...  for months. 

Who the hell actually finds that kind of gameplay fun?  Log on and sit doing nothing, so that others can log on and be prevented from having their fun for the day.  Yeah, the essence of EVE, I guess.  Stupid game.

[Yegolev]

Do the blackops waiting game in a background client.  You really just need your presence felt.

[JoeTF]

That's a strategic advantage:
"Tum te tum, time to mine some sweet, sweet ark in this safe system"
*Black ops squadron jumps in, local spikes*
"Oh holy crap. Run, run!"
*Safespot&cloak/dock at station*
"Hm...it's been half an hour and nobody's been attacked. Wonder if they're just trying to scare us?"
*Waits another half-hour"
"They must just be trying to scare us"
*waits a bit longer*
"OK, bugger this. I'm tired of waiting"
*undocks & warps back to belt*
"Tum te tum, time to mine some sweet, sweet...ohshi-"

The goal for blackops squads shouldn't be "Lol, we ganked X ships" but "Lol, we locked down enemy_system for Y hours/days/weeks, stopping them from ratting or mining".

Other than camp avoidance, and cloak-griefing, I don't really get Black Ops. Not with their pricetag at least.

You'll see, soon enough.

I so hope they will make cloaking ships findable with probes.

[dwindlehop]

I heard some rumblings about cloaking reducing one's sig by a factor of 100 or so in Rev3 but I haven't seen any confirmation.

[Der Helm]

*LOCKDOWN!!!*
[/quote]
Looks like going out to mine is not part of our job description anymore ...

[5150]

I so hope they will make cloaking ships findable with probes.

I really hope that don't!

A POS module needing a high sov level I can live with but not any tom dick or harry with a problem launcher

[Hellinar]

Could the defenders use a similar tactic? Have a bunch of alts in cloaked ships waiting near the miners to ambush the ambushers. The defenders could at least use cheaper cloaks and cheaper ships, as their goal would just be to hold the ambushers till the cavalry arrives.

I've no idea how spread out the miners get in this scenario though. Could BoB pack enough tenants into an area that they become defensible?

[Fordel]

Could the defenders use a similar tactic? Have a bunch of alts in cloaked ships waiting near the miners to ambush the ambushers. The defenders could at least use cheaper cloaks and cheaper ships, as their goal would just be to hold the ambushers till the cavalry arrives.

I've no idea how spread out the miners get in this scenario though. Could BoB pack enough tenants into an area that they become defensible?

Essentially, no. Because of the nature of EVE combat, the miner will be dead before the defenders can react.

Also the number of defenders needed would be vastly larger then the number of Black-Ops needed to 'lock down' a system.

[Simond]

Welp, CCP just broke logistics.

Edit for context: On the test server, ships in carriers must now have empty cargo bays.

[Trouble]

That's what the new jump freighters are for!

[Simond]

The new jump freighters are going to cost half-a-mothership's worth of isk each at least, and probably far higher to begin with.
I wouldn't be surprised if some people just move over into cargo-rigged dreads instead.

[Raging Turtle]

It's a damn good time to be in the capital construction business!

... which I am not.  But it does look like moving moon materials is going to be more of a pain in the ass, which is easy enough to profit off of.


(pssst, Trouble, are you Benvie?)

[Trouble]

Yeah that's me.

[Simond]

The other problem with jumpfreighters (quoting Hydrosan ITT):

Carrier consumption per ly (JFC 0): 1000 fuel

Jump Freighter Fuel Consumption per ly (JFC 0): ~5100 (5.1x the fuel)

Can you say "lmao" with me? It's easy. Just try it. "Lmao."

So it's 5.1x the fuel, with a dread jump range, at only eight times the cost of a carrier.

[Simond]

Time for another installment of "CCP goes crazy":
On SiSi, freighters just had a tenfold mass increase. No more jumpbridging them (either with titans or POS arrays). 

Oh, and it's been worked out by the various production people that the T2 freighters are going to actually end up costing roughly about the same as a mothership each, and will take a couple of months before they start appearing. God only knows what people are supposed to do for logistics before then - Itty V convoys? Ice mining in 0.0? Going back to Empire? Quitting?

[Raging Turtle]

Goodbye, normal empire economics.  And 0.0 too, I suppose. 

I bet people will mine veld in 0.0 now 

[Fordel]

There trying to make space larger again, at the cost of any kind of reasonable playability.


I can see why having large convoy's would be desirable from a macro sense of generating conflict (which is in direct conflict with making space larger), but I don't think anyone in CCP though it through in the micro/player sense.

IE: It's retarded, boring, not fun and unfair. They are attempting to turn players into NPCs. They've been doing it since release, and seem dead set on it.

[Raging Turtle]

I like the idea behind the move.  Certain items will be a lot harder to get hold of, and those who take the risks to move the material can make a big profit. 

But then, I never fly my freighter in non-empire space, and never will. 

[Simond]

Did I mention that this change also means that a frieghter's warp-range just got cut as well? Anything which you could do in one warp might now take two or three...and you'll have to wait for your cap to recharge first.

[Trouble]

The numbers I've done show jump freighters ending up more in the range of 5-7b. They reduced the materials recently on Singularity. They will be expensive, but not mothership expensive.

[Simond]

People will be using the max-copy, reduced success rate encryptors for jump freighters though (what with the one month BPC creation time) so make sure that you've factored that in.

Also: Interdictors just got a speed nerf.

[Raging Turtle]

/waits for moon mineral prices to skyrocket

[Trouble]

People will be using the max-copy, reduced success rate encryptors for jump freighters though (what with the one month BPC creation time) so make sure that you've factored that in.

Also: Interdictors just got a speed nerf.

Well even factoring in inreased costs for invention. You're only going to be doing a handful of freighter invention jobs in a month due to bpc copy times. Demand contribution from freighter invention will be small. Now all the other new ships...that's a different story.

[Comstar]

When is Pirates of the Burning Sea coming out?

Eve's going to be dead within a month or so for me(*). For a short time I had a small Moon mining POS in deep Catch. I lost it fair and square to the MC offensive, but I can't see myself ever running another POS in 0.0 again :(. I don't own a carrier or freighter, but I bought a lot of my fuel locally from people who did. As is, making 32 jumps from empire to my moon and back in a blockade runner 10 times was enough for me not to want to do it again.

And having do to mandatory alliance wide freighter ops every day does not fill me with enthusiasm to play the game either. It will be fun for Outbreak though.


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*- I had hoped to be in EvE when NOL fell, but that's looking increasingly unlikely with the way CCP is changing things. It's like how UO treated it's player base....right up till the point there was competition from EQ.

[Simond]

Demand contribution from freighter invention will be small. Now all the other new ships...that's a different story.

Every single 0.0 alliance is going to want multiple jump-freighters ASAP - that's going to severely spike prices over the 'short' term (first two production runs at least, so six to nine months). And that's ignoring the fact that the imminent moon-mining crash is going to destroy the T2 economy anyway.

Hope nobody in Empire was expecting marauders for less than Dread prices in the next year or so. 

[Slayerik]

When is Pirates of the Burning Sea coming out?

Eve's going to be dead within a month or so for me(*). For a short time I had a small Moon mining POS in deep Catch. I lost it fair and square to the MC offensive, but I can't see myself ever running another POS in 0.0 again :(. I don't own a carrier or freighter, but I bought a lot of my fuel locally from people who did. As is, making 32 jumps from empire to my moon and back in a blockade runner 10 times was enough for me not to want to do it again.

And having do to mandatory alliance wide freighter ops every day does not fill me with enthusiasm to play the game either. It will be fun for Outbreak though.


-----------------------------------------------------------------
*- I had hoped to be in EvE when NOL fell, but that's looking increasingly unlikely with the way CCP is changing things. It's like how UO treated it's player base....right up till the point there was competition from EQ.

Makes me glad there are no freighters in TRI :D

[Comstar]

Makes me glad there are no freighters in TRI :D

Um, what? Don't TRI own 4 regions? How else do you own them if you don't need POS fuel from empire?

[Slayerik]

Makes me glad there are no freighters in TRI :D

Um, what? Don't TRI own 4 regions? How else do you own them if you don't need POS fuel from empire?

All I know is I have never been asked to escort a freighter anywhere. Maybe they do mass carrier/dread jumps, who knows. Don't really care either. I just go PEW PEW

It seems in the history of TRI, one freighter has been lost...went pop in lowsec.....solo

[Simond]

Freighter nerf on SiSi was 'an error' (yeah, right  ) and will be fixed in the next test patch.

I'm guessing a dev at the Fan Fair ran screaming back into CCP HQ and asked if whoever made the changes was trying to get the entire dev team lynched.

[JoeTF]

Could the defenders use a similar tactic? Have a bunch of alts in cloaked ships waiting near the miners to ambush the ambushers. The defenders could at least use cheaper cloaks and cheaper ships, as their goal would just be to hold the ambushers till the cavalry arrives.

I've no idea how spread out the miners get in this scenario though. Could BoB pack enough tenants into an area that they become defensible?

Some goonies already learned the answer;-)

I so hope they will make cloaking ships findable with probes.

I really hope that don't!

A POS module needing a high sov level I can live with but not any tom dick or harry with a problem launcher

I really hope they do, because face it - afk-cloaking is just pure and simple faggotry. All you need is a second PC and right now you're totally untouchable - it's much worse than double mwd setups of old times. Not only scanning down moving ship is already a pain in the ass (try it), but fitting proper scannig character i sgoing ro be much more expansive than your puny Black Ops.
If they want to use them for ambushes, hit 'n run it's fine - but afk cloaking 24/7 is faggotry.

[Raging Turtle]

Freighter nerf on SiSi was 'an error' (yeah, right  ) and will be fixed in the next test patch.

I'm guessing a dev at the Fan Fair ran screaming back into CCP HQ and asked if whoever made the changes was trying to get the entire dev team lynched.

 
But I need the moon mineral market to collapse so my investment goes up by 10x and I can pay for the next year with GTCs!

[Comstar]

All I know is I have never been asked to escort a freighter anywhere. Maybe they do mass carrier/dread jumps, who knows. Don't really care either. I just go PEW PEW

Well consider this. Even though you'll be able to use freighters in your jump portal network, you'll still need to use them to move POS fuel from empire via lowsec to your 0.0 border. I think the stat for BoB for 3-4 front line regions was 100 freighters worth of fuel, per month?

Granted you can use cargo-expanded dreads, but it's not quite so easy as the carriers were. I've only done a few freighter ops (lowsec to Catch -> 5 jumps, and Catch to Querious -> 4 Jumps) but it was still very boring.

It'll be 2-3 months before you see Jumn Freighters, and the'll cost as much as a mothership at first.