SWTOR

[tmp]

Hmm, Pardo gave a bit of an oblique diss to SWOTR in his interview this morning.  Asked about VOs, he mentioned them as being expensive, requiring tons of lead-time for the actors and forcing you down a design path early because of it and limiting any future tweaks to the quest or additions to holes in content because of the time involved.

While all true, this disadvantage seems mostly theoretical. I mean, exactly how many tweaks to the quests did WoW do, and how many years did it take them to go about filling holes in the original content. And that's without voiceovers holding them back...

[Merusk]

Tweaks were done on quests right up until ship day, as anyone in any of the betas can attest.   Sometimes entire quest lines materialized overnight.   Wow does a LOT of content tweaking throughout the beta process and on the test servers.   Holes in content, yeah, they can't point too many fingers there if you played Horde prior to the xp tweaks.

[tmp]

Wow does a LOT of content tweaking throughout the beta process and on the test servers.

Yes, but i was rather thinking of tweaking done after things are shipped; that's the part where tweaking things which only utilize text can be certainly done faster, except that's something rarely if ever done..?

As far as the speed goes while things are actually in production, doing prototype work in text only and then recording the voicework after it's all greenlit seems like a rather obvious approach to minimize the impact it has during that stage. (although if i'm not mistaken Bioware people said they've used some sort of voice synthesis while prototyping Mass Effect 2 scenes to get a rough idea how it'd go)

[Margalis]

As far as the speed goes while things are actually in production, doing prototype work in text only and then recording the voicework after it's all greenlit seems like a rather obvious approach to minimize the impact it has during that stage. (although if i'm not mistaken Bioware people said they've used some sort of voice synthesis while prototyping Mass Effect 2 scenes to get a rough idea how it'd go)

That does not appear to be the approach they're taking with SWTOR. There has been no release or beta date announced and already it has a lot of voicework in it.

[tmp]

No open beta, but that does not automatically mean lack of QA whatsoever for the content they've made so far. Especially when all games they've made so far were something done with just internal QA.

[SnakeCharmer]

Have I missed the other games that BioWare Austin has made that was done with just internal QA?

[tmp]

Bioware Austin, no; people who now form Bioware Austin, yes.

edit: i'll take back "all". fucking SWG.

[SnakeCharmer]

No, sir.

[Triforcer]

That looked like a lot of fun.  I don't know what people are bitching about or were expecting. 

[VainEldritch]

no mention of fishing...

wat

Why the fuck would you want to go fishing in Star Wars?

Because I like fishing...? SWG had fishing. I had a collection of fish. Gave me something to do when I wasn't PvPing/questing. Point being, fishing is representative of having "stuff to do" in the game that allows one to "live in the Star Wars universe" without scripted quests or PvP or PvE or resource gathering or crafting. Things like fishing mean that I can enter the game world, wander outside and look at the scenery and just "relaxe in character" - have a peaceful day fishing in the lakes of Naboo, for example. My imagination works like this: "Well, today I could go take it to the Sith and go scout Korriban but I really cannot agree with how the Jedi have handled their responsibilities in the Republic... I need to think this over - I'm going fishing...".

Thus far SW-TOR does not appear to be a game that will allow for this, although (again, thus far...) I am unaware of any developer statement excluding such "RP" items as housing, crafting, "fishing" and such. I can only hope.

[Lucas]

no mention of fishing...

wat

Why the fuck would you want to go fishing in Star Wars?

Because I like fishing...? SWG had fishing. I had a collection of fish. Gave me something to do when I wasn't PvPing/questing. Point being, fishing is representative of having "stuff to do" in the game that allows one to "live in the Star Wars universe" without scripted quests or PvP or PvE or resource gathering or crafting. Things like fishing mean that I can enter the game world, wander outside and look at the scenery and just "relaxe in character" - have a peaceful day fishing in the lakes of Naboo, for example. My imagination works like this: "Well, today I could go take it to the Sith and go scout Korriban but I really cannot agree with how the Jedi have handled their responsibilities in the Republic... I need to think this over - I'm going fishing...".

Thus far SW-TOR does not appear to be a game that will allow for this, although (again, thus far...) I am unaware of any developer statement excluding such "RP" items as housing, crafting, "fishing" and such. I can only hope.

Don't forget the voiceovers for every kind of fish, though.

But yes, it's my dream too: bakery profession in Star Wars, and different voiceovers when I mix flour, and put the loaves into the oven based on failure and success.
---

No, but seriously: this game looks like it is going to be a more "focused" experience. We'll see, but look elsewhere for that kind of diversification.

[Triforcer]

no mention of fishing...

wat

Why the fuck would you want to go fishing in Star Wars?

Because I like fishing...? SWG had fishing. I had a collection of fish. Gave me something to do when I wasn't PvPing/questing. Point being, fishing is representative of having "stuff to do" in the game that allows one to "live in the Star Wars universe" without scripted quests or PvP or PvE or resource gathering or crafting. Things like fishing mean that I can enter the game world, wander outside and look at the scenery and just "relaxe in character" - have a peaceful day fishing in the lakes of Naboo, for example. My imagination works like this: "Well, today I could go take it to the Sith and go scout Korriban but I really cannot agree with how the Jedi have handled their responsibilities in the Republic... I need to think this over - I'm going fishing...".

Thus far SW-TOR does not appear to be a game that will allow for this, although (again, thus far...) I am unaware of any developer statement excluding such "RP" items as housing, crafting, "fishing" and such. I can only hope.

No.  That way lies Wookiee hairdressing. 

[Malakili]

No.  That way lies Wookiee hairdressing. 

I'd rather have Wookie hairdressers than 10000 Han Solos, 10000 boba fetts, and so forth, that seems to be the direction they are heading in now.

[VainEldritch]

no mention of fishing...

wat

Why the fuck would you want to go fishing in Star Wars?

Because I like fishing...? SWG had fishing. I had a collection of fish. Gave me something to do when I wasn't PvPing/questing. Point being, fishing is representative of having "stuff to do" in the game that allows one to "live in the Star Wars universe" without scripted quests or PvP or PvE or resource gathering or crafting. Things like fishing mean that I can enter the game world, wander outside and look at the scenery and just "relaxe in character" - have a peaceful day fishing in the lakes of Naboo, for example. My imagination works like this: "Well, today I could go take it to the Sith and go scout Korriban but I really cannot agree with how the Jedi have handled their responsibilities in the Republic... I need to think this over - I'm going fishing...".

Thus far SW-TOR does not appear to be a game that will allow for this, although (again, thus far...) I am unaware of any developer statement excluding such "RP" items as housing, crafting, "fishing" and such. I can only hope.

No.  That way lies Wookiee hairdressing. 

Well, the wookies in Ep. 3 were all immaculately groomed... ner a knot, tat, split-end, flake of dandruff nor flea-scratch to be seen.

[Surlyboi]

Keep in mind, Triforcer was against wookiee hairdressing the first time around for no real reason too.

[Lantyssa]

If it didn't have to do with the galactic conflict, he was against it.

[Ratman_tf]

If it didn't have to do with the galactic conflict, he was against it.

Fuck the Galactic Conflict. SWG was simberu (and I say that as a Weaponsmith) and TOR is going to be a PVEfest. PvP in TOR is gonna be half-assed instanced battlegrounds thrown in so they can add "Engaging player versus player conflict!" on the box blurb.

Mahk mah wuds.

[Venkman]

Yes. And that's all it really needs to be.

No.  That way lies Wookiee hairdressing. 

I'd rather have Wookie hairdressers than 10000 Han Solos, 10000 boba fetts, and so forth

You are so very not the market for this title then  

In all seriousness, SWG exists already. Even in its neutered form, it allows for much more personalized experiences than most other AAA MMOs, while being the very essence of "underperforming". Nobody managing any sort of serious budget can go to the budget managers and say "give me more|let me spend less on feature X so we can have these beloved features from <underperforming game>". That's a freebie you add after you've hit your 50% operating margin on a jillion players.

[Malakili]

You are so very not the market for this title then  

This I realize, but as a big fan of star wars, I can't help but post in this thread anyway!

[UnSub]

As far as the speed goes while things are actually in production, doing prototype work in text only and then recording the voicework after it's all greenlit seems like a rather obvious approach to minimize the impact it has during that stage. (although if i'm not mistaken Bioware people said they've used some sort of voice synthesis while prototyping Mass Effect 2 scenes to get a rough idea how it'd go)

The point is that BioWare Austin can't create new content quickly. It might be quick for VO work, but continually creating high quality VO content is time consuming and expensive. Which is why I think crafting and PvP are going to be increasingly important as SWOR goes on - it wouldn't require a huge process to update this content while PvE content is going to take longer.

Voice synthesis is fine for planning purposes, but its like watching the animatics for a movie in pre-production - not good enough to pay money for and not the same as seeing the full professionally produced content.

[Venkman]

I still think VOs are unsustainable unless they're wildly successful, but they could just go the Fallout 3/DLC model instead of a flat sub fee. That plus some type of MTX of course. Ya know someone's gonna want to have the purple lightsaber bad enough to RMT for it anyway, so ya might as well pay wall it.

[Stormwaltz]

continually creating high quality VO content is time consuming and expensive.

FWIW, this was my biggest concern when I heard "full VO."

[schild]

High Quality voice acting is one of those things that:

1. Almost never works out (as in, it's not high quality, it's just voice acting for the sake of voice acting).
2. Will never get cheaper.
3. Is arguably a total waste of money in the long run.

With or without voice acting, SWTOR will sell reams of boxes, that much is guaranteed. Voice acting is not the reason the majority will keep or even pay for one month past the first if they go with the standard model. That is to say, it strikes me as an extremely amateur decision for that to be the way they went this early on with marketing. But I suppose you gotta go where your strengths are and after seeing that video, it ain't the combat or character art.

[Cyrrex]

So I just watched the 20 minutes of footage and must now admit that I am really looking forward to this.  But then, I am an irredeemable fanboy.  Do Want.  It looks like KOTOR with awesome sauce slathered all over it.

Oddly, though, they still don't have the lightsaber model right.

[Malakili]

So I just watched the 20 minutes of footage and must now admit that I am really looking forward to this.  But then, I am an irredeemable fanboy.  Do Want.  It looks like KOTOR with awesome sauce slathered all over it.

Oddly, though, they still don't have the lightsaber model right.

I dunno, as a star wars fanboi myself, I feel just the opposite.  Everyone shouldn't be heroic in the star wars universe, like I said before, every smuggler is han solo, every bounty hunter is boba fett, every jedi is (young) obi wan.   That doesn't really seem to jive with the spirit of star wars at all for me.  I mean, it can work for KOTOR, because you've got just the one player telling the story of that part of the star wars lore, but then you bring it into a "massively multiplayer" setting, and it seems to strip all the importance out of it.   If they were releasing a series of single player KOTOR games with each of the current classes /story lines being a DLC or something, it would look better.

Then again, after I went on about how I will be playing CO because I find it fun, regardless of the fact that I disagree with some of their design choices, I don't have much ground to stand on here (assuming the game is fun to play)

[Crumbs]

This seems kind of PSO.  I wouldn't be surprised if the endgame was three more levels of difficulty through the same content. 

There had to be a reason why they didn't just make another single player console game with the option of online group play.  There just...there just had to be.

[Cyrrex]

I would think that "15 bucks a month times 2 million players" is their primary reason.

[Crumbs]

I would think that "15 bucks a month times 2 million players" is their primary reason.

As it would be anyone's.  I'm just waiting to see why this game needs to be online aside from "because Warcraft," although from a business perspective there probably doesn't need to be a better reason.

[fuser]

Question about the VO, wouldn't they in all respects be doing a lot of content patches/first exp at the same time?  At that point any kind of storyline flushed out should be recorded for any future usage in the world even if it makes it to the initial release or next expansion.

Needless to say after playing EQ2 VO's really didn't add anything for me to the world or experience. It's a huge expense, huge requirement on installer, huge requirement on content delivery, and issues in the future when actor xyz will or cannot do the voice thats ingrained with your userbase.

[Lucas]

FYI: the HD version of the demo is now available for free on Voodoo Extreme, stil divided in four parts:

http://ve3d.ign.com/articles/news/49878/Star-Wars-The-Old-Republic-Twenty-Minute-Gameplay-Movie

[Brogarn]

After finally getting around to watching the videos, I think they were actually pretty cool. It also doesn't look to play like the standard holy trinity format of Diku. So, that's a bonus if that turns out to be the case.

[Draegan]

There were way to many abilities on that Sith's hotbar at level 8.

Maybe there are only 10 levels.  That might make sense then.

[Velorath]

I would think that "15 bucks a month times 2 million players" is their primary reason.

As it would be anyone's.  I'm just waiting to see why this game needs to be online aside from "because Warcraft," although from a business perspective there probably doesn't need to be a better reason.

How would you have rather seen multiplayer handled?

[Crumbs]

How would you have rather seen multiplayer handled?

Simply put, something less linear.  Are we all riding the same ride or are we all at the same amusement park?  If it's the latter, then there will be other ways to pass time in game besides advancing the story.  If it's the former, then what's the difference between this and KOTOR?  "You can group" isn't enough for me.  Hence the PSO comparison.

The "you are the hero!" trend is valid and if that's where mmos are headed, fine.  Not my cup of tea, but fine.  It may be early to tell, but I'll be disappointed if SWTOR ends up being a comepletely linear game that only becomes an "mmo" when you park your mammoth on the mailbox.

[Cyrrex]

Let's say that it's nothing more than a prettier version of KOTOR, but it's parts 3 through 8 and with co-op.  That's enough to get my money and that of probably a few million other people.