NFL 2011

[Nebu]

The alternative is to take your first chance at a really good season since Rich Gannon left and flush it down the toilet.

How far do you think Palmer can take them realistically?  In my mind, anything short of playing in the Super Bowl makes this a bad trade... and I don't see them making it to the Super Bowl.  

I'd love to be wrong.  I love a good Cinderella story.  I just don't see it happening.

[Rasix]

They won't win a Super Bowl anyways and Oakland just trashed their future for a guy that most likely won't pan out.  I don't think he'll be a success.  I don't think they'll win enough games to justify this expense.  This was a dumb, dumb, dumb trade.  A one and a two (possibly 2 ones) for a guy that would have gone for a fifth rounder if the owner wasn't a dick?  Yikes.

Cincy won with this.  They won hard. Oakland needs a miracle for this to be even slightly worth it.

[Paelos]

Late first round picks are a coin flip at best. Win now, get to the playoffs now, and give yourself a shot.

You can't play "for the future" when you have no QB and are 4-2.

[HaemishM]

I don't think Palmer takes them to the Super Bowl, but I don't think anyone short of Brady, Rodgers or Manning could have. This isn't a great team by any stretch of the imagination. It's got some building blocks, it's owner is finally not crazy (well, we think... remains to be seen if the younger is as crazy as the elder), and it's in a division with two teams that are going nowhere and another team with great talent coached by Norv Turner. But after a decade of sucking so hard, the black on their uniforms was the color of the void in space occupied by the team, playoffs are a goddamn triumph. In order for it to be 2 #1's, Palmer has to lead them to the Super Bowl in the next two years.

Oakland obviously got traderaped. Cincy won and won hard. Of course, whichever team gets to the playoffs this year is the real winner. Carson will be motivated to stick it to Mike Brown, and with the records as they are, these two will likely be up against each other for that last wild card spot.

What were some of the other options?

Kyle Orton - he'd probably have been a better option but Denver would have been crazy to trade him. After all, when Tim Tebow steps on his dick, that'd leave Brady Quinn as your only option.
Vince Young - Purple Drank probably killed any chance of this happening, since Russell and Young are similar style players. And Young would never have been able to handle Raider nation emotionally.
Josh McCown - Might as well go with Kyle Boller.
Matt Leinart - I kid. 
David Carr - He just got sacked again.
David Garrard - Back Surgery.
Byron Leftwich - Got replaced by David Garrard.
Derek Anderson - He just got intercepted again... from the bench.
Charlie Whitehurst - YEAH BABY!!!!
Rex Grossman - My dead grandmother just took him for a pick 6.

Now that I think about it, for the price they were willing to pay, they should have called Green Bay about Matt Flynn. He almost beat the Patriots and that was without any sort of running game, is young and seems to have talent. Green Bay would have gladly traded for more draft picks, as they like to build young. It probably wouldn't have even cost them more than a 3rd or 2nd rounder.

[Chimpy]

Now that I think about it, for the price they were willing to pay, they should have called Green Bay about Matt Flynn. He almost beat the Patriots and that was without any sort of running game, is young and seems to have talent. Green Bay would have gladly traded for more draft picks, as they like to build young. It probably wouldn't have even cost them more than a 3rd or 2nd rounder.

No one trades Green Bay for backup QBs, they wait until they become free agents, sign them, and then have them become franchise QBs. And I doubt anyone would want to give the Packers any kind of advantage going forward in the draft. They seem to do better in the draft than any team since they learned their lesson with Tony Mandarich.

[WayAbvPar]

Seattle traded for Hasselbeck.

[Chimpy]

Seattle traded for Hasselbeck.

Bah thought he was a free-agent.

[Nebu]

I bet the vikings would trade McNabb for two 1st round picks.  

[Paelos]

I honestly can't believe you people value first round picks so much that a guy has to be worth a super bowl to get them.

Come on.

[01101010]

I honestly can't believe you people value first round picks so much that a guy has to be worth a super bowl to get them.

Come on.

I'd say in addition to this, the chances of a pick working out are the same as Palmer working out for the Raiders. Besides, 2013's draft is going to be chock full of throwing arms coming out of the Pac12 and SEC. Hell throw the ACC in there also. So really, I think it's more a wash than anything.

[Ingmar]

I honestly can't believe you people value first round picks so much that a guy has to be worth a super bowl to get them.

Come on.

I'd say in addition to this, the chances of a pick working out are the same as Palmer working out for the Raiders. Besides, 2013's draft is going to be chock full of throwing arms coming out of the Pac12 and SEC. Hell throw the ACC in there also. So really, I think it's more a wash than anything.

The players they'd pick up with those picks would not be costing them ~40 million guaranteed through 2014, first of all. That's cap money that could go to other use, so treating this like the picks are the only cost of getting the guy is looking at it all wrong. Second of all, this is a player with a very short shelf life at this point. If you pay a high price for a player with a very short shelf life, you are putting all your eggs in the Super Bowl basket. If they don't get there with Palmer as the QB, it was absolutely a waste.

[Paelos]

As opposed to what? Fading into obscurity again? Riding out the draft picks again for a QB?

There hasn't been a good playoff QB in the first round since Aaron Rodgers in 05. They have a runningback, they have a great offensive line. You get nowhere without having a guy back there that can throw, and getting into the playoffs for the first time in almost a decade makes that worth something.

The Raiders need to establish a new image. They need to show they can compete. They need to do it now while the spotlight is on the team so they can build up excitiment. They need to be a place that free agents look at and think, DAMN, that's a team I could go to and have a shot at postseason success and exposure.

[Ingmar]

And when Palmer gets injured some time in the first 3 games, they're going to look at a team with no QB and no draft picks and think "yeah... I'm avoiding that one."

[Paelos]

And when Palmer gets injured some time in the first 3 games, they're going to look at a team with no QB and no draft picks and think "yeah... I'm avoiding that one."

What magic formula leads you to think he's getting injured all of a sudden? He played 16 games in 2009 and 2010 for the shittiest club in the land and managed to survive.

[HaemishM]

Yeah, look at the Raiders passing stats. 7 total sacks in 6 games. Campbell wasn't getting pounded like Romo or Cutler. Palmer won't be asked to drop back 40 or 50 times a game just to have a chance to win. He's got a running game that he didn't have in Cincy. Campbell averaged 25 pass attempts per game last year, 27.5 this year.

[Ingmar]

1) He's supremely immobile since his knee injury, and will have a hard time getting away from guys.
2) He had no training camp, no practices with an NFL team, etc. He's not going to be anywhere near in football shape in terms of reacting to a pass rush, etc.
3) He's getting older. Older players get hurt more.

I just think there's incredible potential for him to get nailed early on. If he makes it through a few games his odds are a lot better from that point forward though.

[Trippy]

1) He's supremely immobile since his knee injury, and will have a hard time getting away from guys.

He's not *that* immobile. True he can't really run the ball anymore but he was still able to move around in the pocket after his injury. There are plenty of other immobile quarterbacks like Peyton and Eli Manning and Phillip Rivers that do fine (or did in the case of Peyton )

[Paelos]

Plus, his first game is going to be against KC. He's going to come in there, hand off the ball, and maybe throw a few screens and out routes. They aren't going to need to go deep into the playbook against the Chiefs.

[Nebu]

As opposed to what? Fading into obscurity again? Riding out the draft picks again for a QB?

I think we're just disagreeing in our fundamental philosophy.  I'd rather try to build a team for the future and accept the risks that come with it.  You'd rather try to maintain the current momentum.  I get that. 

Hell, I'd love to see Carson return to his prime.  He was fun to watch in his early years. 

[Ingmar]

It just occurred to me that there's some irony in everyone stepping forward to "oh, surely he won't get hurt" when the only reason Palmer is here is the previous QB got hurt.

[HaemishM]

His injury was a result of him scrambling forward on a pass. If you watch the play, he actually wasn't pressured so much as he realized he had nothing downfield and took off running. Had he slid, he wouldn't have gotten injured. And again, it's not like he's been sacked a ton this year.

[01101010]

I think we're just disagreeing in our fundamental philosophy.  I'd rather try to build a team for the future and accept the risks that come with it.  You'd rather try to maintain the current momentum.  I get that. 

This is not shared by ANY Browns fan. 

[Paelos]

His injury was a result of him scrambling forward on a pass. If you watch the play, he actually wasn't pressured so much as he realized he had nothing downfield and took off running. Had he slid, he wouldn't have gotten injured. And again, it's not like he's been sacked a ton this year.

Exactly. I don't see Carson taking off anytime soon when he's pressured. He'll just throw it 3 deep into the stands.

[WayAbvPar]

So would Jason Campbell, but he knows deep inside that he couldn't hit water if he fell out of a boat, and that if tried to throw the ball away it would go directly the defender most likely to return it for a touchdown. So he ran for it, and allowed himself to get injured so Oakland would be forced to go out and get an actual QB. He is a hero, and I hope he gets a ring for it! 

[Paelos]

Who's the QB at Seattle now? Rick Mirer?





 

[WayAbvPar]

It doesn't matter. Whoever it is will be gone soon enough. Hopefully taking Pete Carroll with him.

[Trippy]

Pete has a long and expensive contract. He's going to be there for at least another season after this one, I would say.

[HaemishM]

Yeah, you're stuck with Carroll through at least mid-season next year. They won't admit it was a mistake until it's way too late to fix it without 3 more years of rebuilding under a competent head coach.

[Trippy]

ZOMG Tebow actually completed a pass, and it was for a TD!

[Trippy]

ZOMG Tebow actually completed a pass, and it was for a TD!

[Nevermore]

Well, it *was* Gator-day or some such BS in Miami today. 

[Paelos]

I've never actually seen a team lay down in the NFL until today. That was disgusting. You could tell the coaching staff figured out they were going to win, and everyone just quit playing for the last 4 minutes of the game AND overtime.

[Trippy]

3rd INT for Boller and it's not even halftime yet

[Nevermore]

I've never actually seen a team lay down in the NFL until today. That was disgusting. You could tell the coaching staff figured out they were going to win, and everyone just quit playing for the last 4 minutes of the game AND overtime.

Why would the coaching staff try to throw the game when they're all going to be fired long before they ever get to see Luck?  No, they're really just that horrible.  Why the hell are they going for 2 when they're up 12-0?  Because Sparano has no business coaching anything, that's why.

[Trippy]

The Raiders Carlson Palmer Era is about to begin

Edit: first TD for Palmer!...on an INT