NFL 2011

[01101010]

Meh, you sound spoiled, it wasn't THAT long ago that Dallas was winning like every other Superbowl it felt like.


Come back to me when you have a 40 year dry spell 

Can we talk then?

[Sjofn]

Don't mind Fordel, he's a Leafs fan. And a Dolphins fan, from his rebellious Canadian youth. "I'll show these hockey-loving hosers! I'm going to follow AMERICAN FOOTBALL."

[Slayerik]

As a Lions fan....................

[01101010]

<-- Browns fan - I think we all need to meet up and have a few drinks to calm the storm.

[Fordel]

Don't mind Fordel, he's a Leafs fan. And a Dolphins fan, from his rebellious Canadian youth. "I'll show these hockey-loving hosers! I'm going to follow AMERICAN FOOTBALL."

I had this huge Teal Dolphins Coat for winter, with the inside lining being the Dolphin Orange, it was obnoxious and I loved it so much. I have no idea where my parents bought it, as you can imagine, Miami Dolphin gear isn't exactly the most common thing in Toronto 

[K9]

Something that slipped under the radar a few days back; The Rams have signed up to play in the London preseason game for the next three years.

The NFL has been growing this annual Wembly game quite a bit over the past 5-6 years or so, and they're supposed to be going to two games a year here in the near future. I will admit that quite a few of us here are interested in the notion of a NFL franchise. Given that the Rams, Jags and Chargers all seem to be franchises with limited shelf-lives, and the financial incentives to grow the league outside of the US, this doesn't seem too ridiculous, does it?

[01101010]

Something that slipped under the radar a few days back; The Rams have signed up to play in the London preseason game for the next three years.

The NFL has been growing this annual Wembly game quite a bit over the past 5-6 years or so, and they're supposed to be going to two games a year here in the near future. I will admit that quite a few of us here are interested in the notion of a NFL franchise. Given that the Rams, Jags and Chargers all seem to be franchises with limited shelf-lives, and the financial incentives to grow the league outside of the US, this doesn't seem too ridiculous, does it?

I pity the division that gets a team in Great Britain.

[Chimpy]

While the Wembly games are cool and all, I don't think they are going to move a team out of North America permanently.

There are rumors of Goddell thinking about having the SuperBowl in Wembley in the future. Seeing as he got everyone to agree to having one in New York, it is entirely possible too.

[Johny Cee]

While the Wembly games are cool and all, I don't think they are going to move a team out of North America permanently.

There are rumors of Goddell thinking about having the SuperBowl in Wembley in the future. Seeing as he got everyone to agree to having one in New York, it is entirely possible too.

I thought that many commentators/insiders have said that a UK expansion is pretty much a sure thing, the only question is when...  there's too much money on the table in breaking into the UK market.  Players don't like it, as they would have to lose a days in travel and be jet lagged to hell.


Lawrence Taylor was on Inside the NFL last night.  First, they grilled him on his arrest for soliciting an underage prostitute... and I mean grilled him.  Then, he hung around, told stories, and busted on Phil Simms.  It was fucking hilarious...  Chris Collinsgworth was falling out of his chair he was laughing so hard. 

[Chimpy]

Oh, I don't deny an expansion team there in the future. I just don't think any existing team is going to be moved there. My wording was a bit vague.

[K9]

A Wembly Superbowl would be awesome. There is definitely no shortage of fan support over here in the UK for American Football. Seems like a bit of a pipe dream though. On that note I suspect a London franchise would do better at selling out games than quite a few of the bottom end US franchises (Wow, I didn't realise how bad it was in Cinicinatti)

Something that slipped under the radar a few days back; The Rams have signed up to play in the London preseason game for the next three years.

The NFL has been growing this annual Wembly game quite a bit over the past 5-6 years or so, and they're supposed to be going to two games a year here in the near future. I will admit that quite a few of us here are interested in the notion of a NFL franchise. Given that the Rams, Jags and Chargers all seem to be franchises with limited shelf-lives, and the financial incentives to grow the league outside of the US, this doesn't seem too ridiculous, does it?

I pity the division that gets a team in Great Britain.

It's not ideal, but it's not impossible. Sticking it in one of the North or East divisions would mean you're looking at a 5hr time difference which isn't great, but it's not the end of the fucking world. I have done the trip between London and the East Coast enough to know that jetlag really isn't too much of an issue and in all likelihood the jetlag coming to the UK is less of a disadvantage then jetlag going the other way. There is a conceivable way to arrange bye weeks and road games such as to minimise the impact. The London team might have to do multiple road games back to back to cut down of flights, and it is not ideal, but not impossible.

I think the key factor is as Johny Cee says, the NFL has fuckall room to grow in the US, and Europe is where the money is.

[ghost]

If they're going to do it, they should probably try to do at least two teams so that every game isn't an 8-12 hour flight for a road trip.  A team in Germany and one in England would be a pretty sweet expansion. 

[Draegan]

Expansions are tough.  Currently it's set up so perfectly with 2 conferences, 4 divisions each, 4 teams each.  1 or 2 expansion teams would destroy that parity.  I don't think there is enough talent to go around to create the 8 teams needed to keep that system up.   But let's say they added 1 team to each conference so now you have 17 teams in each.  How do you break that up?  You would almost have to add 2 teams each to make it an even 18 then you can go back to 3 divisions with 6 teams each.

I can definitely see teams moving though.

[K9]

True; I think the only thing I would be a bit wary of you be moving a whole division to Europe. I have an inkling that it would serve as a dumping ground for unpopular franchises and would wind up being a bit of a joke division without some serious incentives and support from the league. We don't want NFL Europe II, it would have to be the real thing.

As far as the players are concerned, American sports players are somewhat coddled in this regard, since all your major sports are primarily domestic-only. For most global sports players are quite accustomed to travelling to and playing with teams in different countries.

[Chimpy]

As far as the players are concerned, American sports players are somewhat coddled in this regard, since all your major sports are primarily domestic-only. For most global sports players are quite accustomed to travelling to and playing with teams in different countries.

It is not the different countries thing, it is that (with the exception of Super 14 Rugby in Aus/NZ/SA) no professional league has to travel across an ocean. Sure, International tours for national teams happen quite often, but it is not the same as having a 5 month schedule flying back an forth across the pond every week.

And the distance traveled by teams in Europe is less than what U.S. teams travel regularly inside the states. It is farther to fly from Boston to San Diego or Seattle to Miami than it is to fly between any two points in continental Europe.

[ghost]

True; I think the only thing I would be a bit wary of you be moving a whole division to Europe. I have an inkling that it would serve as a dumping ground for unpopular franchises and would wind up being a bit of a joke division without some serious incentives and support from the league. We don't want NFL Europe II, it would have to be the real thing.

As far as the players are concerned, American sports players are somewhat coddled in this regard, since all your major sports are primarily domestic-only. For most global sports players are quite accustomed to travelling to and playing with teams in different countries.

I don't think they do it on quite such a regular basis, do they?  And if they do isn't it usually in tournament format, and within the continent of Europe?  They aren't often doing transcontinental flights to play.

[Johny Cee]

True; I think the only thing I would be a bit wary of you be moving a whole division to Europe. I have an inkling that it would serve as a dumping ground for unpopular franchises and would wind up being a bit of a joke division without some serious incentives and support from the league. We don't want NFL Europe II, it would have to be the real thing.

As far as the players are concerned, American sports players are somewhat coddled in this regard, since all your major sports are primarily domestic-only. For most global sports players are quite accustomed to travelling to and playing with teams in different countries.

You are underestimating the physical beating you take in football and the need for recovery time, as well.

[K9]

My comment about coddled was more a general one (in part inspired by some of the comments on the ESPN article actually) about players/coaches potentially not being happy at being away from families for long periods of time, which doesn't really hold up in comparison to pretty much every other sport where players and staff have to be mobile and flexible about where they live.

I'm not downplaying the travel issue, it is a big one, but not an impossible one. Transatlantic flights are not as onerous as some of you seem to feel, and I don't imagine that the teams would be shoving their players into cattle class. As you say yourself, there are flights close in length (Miami to Seattle and LA-Boston are both about 5"30; London to Boston is 7 hours one way, 6 the other). If you run a series of road games together as a mini-tour you can cut down on transatlantic travel for the team. It's not an ideal situation though.

I still think the financial upside for the NFL will convince them that these problems can be overcome though.

[Paelos]

I can definitely see teams moving though.

Yes, this first before we start talking about Euro franchises. We have too many NFL teams right now in shitty shitty territories that don't play ball. Let's do a quick rundown of the worst ones.

1 - Cincinnati - Terrible owner, terrible location, and frankly it's a sports town that hasn't been relevant since the 1990 Reds. They are regularly in the 20s in attendance in the NFL, they were dead last in 2011, and the stadium is mediocre.
2 - St Louis - The wayward Rams. Where to begin? The stadium sucks for starters. The team is always bottom five in attendance over the last 4 years. Nobody wants to watch them on any TV games. They need to get out of a city that only cares about baseball and hockey.
3 - Buffalo - Simply put, that city is dying. The old people are dying and their kids left already. The economy there sucks. Any businesses there are shutting down left and right. Get out while you still can before it looks like a hate crime when you leave.
4 - Jacksonville - Ugh. What a shitty town. I know because I go there every year for the GA/FL game and my sis lives there. They don't deserve a team. They are well known for dodging blackout rules by corporate sponsorship. That stadium is never actually full, tickets sold be damned. They suck on the field, and have no tools that lead you to believe they will ever get the support they need in a city that's basically a glorified port town.

On my watch list:

1 - Miami - Pretty much all professional sports in Miami are on notice. Baseball first.
2 - Tampa Bay - Nothing I hear out of that franchise sounds good going forward. Or their ability to compete or draw fans to the games.
3 - Minnesota - You're not safe. That thing you call a stadium a filthpile. Better step it up of they will ship your cold asses out of Vegas or something.

[Johny Cee]

That raises the other point:

Canada will likely get a team at the same time London gets one. 

[HaemishM]

The Toronto Vikings? 

[K9]

The Montreal Dolphins 

[Johny Cee]

The Montreal Dolphins  

Montreal Dauphins.

Edit:

Language rules in Quebec would force you to have a French team name, I think.

[01101010]

I can definitely see teams moving though.

Yes, this first before we start talking about Euro franchises. We have too many NFL teams right now in shitty shitty territories that don't play ball. Let's do a quick rundown of the worst ones.

1 - Cincinnati - Terrible owner, terrible location, and frankly it's a sports town that hasn't been relevant since the 1990 Reds. They are regularly in the 20s in attendance in the NFL, they were dead last in 2011, and the stadium is mediocre.
2 - St Louis - The wayward Rams. Where to begin? The stadium sucks for starters. The team is always bottom five in attendance over the last 4 years. Nobody wants to watch them on any TV games. They need to get out of a city that only cares about baseball and hockey.
3 - Buffalo - Simply put, that city is dying. The old people are dying and their kids left already. The economy there sucks. Any businesses there are shutting down left and right. Get out while you still can before it looks like a hate crime when you leave.
4 - Jacksonville - Ugh. What a shitty town. I know because I go there every year for the GA/FL game and my sis lives there. They don't deserve a team. They are well known for dodging blackout rules by corporate sponsorship. That stadium is never actually full, tickets sold be damned. They suck on the field, and have no tools that lead you to believe they will ever get the support they need in a city that's basically a glorified port town.

On my watch list:

1 - Miami - Pretty much all professional sports in Miami are on notice. Baseball first.
2 - Tampa Bay - Nothing I hear out of that franchise sounds good going forward. Or their ability to compete or draw fans to the games.
3 - Minnesota - You're not safe. That thing you call a stadium a filthpile. Better step it up of they will ship your cold asses out of Vegas or something.

Hate to keep bringing them up, but the Browns - while I know they do have a deal to stay in place - are a mirror of a lot of each point on that list. And frankly, the owner is already over in England. The fans are the only thing that seems to keep shit going in Cleveland as nothing in that city has ever really mattered since the 60s. Sure the Indians were nice in the 90s but if you are from Cleveland, you know that any team from the city will invariably fuck up before the prize. New expansion teams have better overall performance than the "new" Browns. In retrospect, I wish they never returned - most days.

[Paelos]

The Browns are supported by the city, and Cleveland isn't on the list because of that fact. Relevant? No.

However, I think the fans need an outlet for their masochistic hope.

[naum]

I'm not downplaying the travel issue, it is a big one, but not an impossible one. Transatlantic flights are not as onerous as some of you seem to feel, and I don't imagine that the teams would be shoving their players into cattle class. As you say yourself, there are flights close in length (Miami to Seattle and LA-Boston are both about 5"30; London to Boston is 7 hours one way, 6 the other). If you run a series of road games together as a mini-tour you can cut down on transatlantic travel for the team. It's not an ideal situation though.

Flying might be uncomfortable for the working classes, but I am sure that most NFL teams (maybe not the Arizona Cardinals or other miserly owners) would splurge for ample seat space and amenities on board.

But is there a real swelling of clamor for NFL action in foreign locales? Outside of ex-pat and curiosity seeking? Maybe in a few of the larger Canadian markets (and I suspect there are only 2-3 maximum here), but I just cannot see sellouts in Madrid, Paris and Berlin.

[Ingmar]

The natural choice for a Toronto team is the Bills, they already have a fair number of fans there.

[Johny Cee]

I'm not downplaying the travel issue, it is a big one, but not an impossible one. Transatlantic flights are not as onerous as some of you seem to feel, and I don't imagine that the teams would be shoving their players into cattle class. As you say yourself, there are flights close in length (Miami to Seattle and LA-Boston are both about 5"30; London to Boston is 7 hours one way, 6 the other). If you run a series of road games together as a mini-tour you can cut down on transatlantic travel for the team. It's not an ideal situation though.

Flying might be uncomfortable for the working classes, but I am sure that most NFL teams (maybe not the Arizona Cardinals or other miserly owners) would splurge for ample seat space and amenities on board.

But is there a real swelling of clamor for NFL action in foreign locales? Outside of ex-pat and curiosity seeking? Maybe in a few of the larger Canadian markets (and I suspect there are only 2-3 maximum here), but I just cannot see sellouts in Madrid, Paris and Berlin.

No one is saying Madrid, Paris or Berlin.  The league as much as said last season that London was guaranteed an expansion team.  The question has been more when, if it's a true expansion team or a relocated franchise, etc.  

Toronto looks like another possible, as the Bills have been playing one "home" game in Toronto every year for the last few years....  I mean, moving the Bills keeps them in the same general media market.  Seems win-win.

[ghost]

I can really see them doing 2 euro teams simply to make the travel hit just a little less daunting. 

[Sjofn]

And the distance traveled by teams in Europe is less than what U.S. teams travel regularly inside the states. It is farther to fly from Boston to San Diego or Seattle to Miami than it is to fly between any two points in continental Europe.

I'm always a little surprised how Europeans routinely fail to grasp this.

[Fordel]

And the distance traveled by teams in Europe is less than what U.S. teams travel regularly inside the states. It is farther to fly from Boston to San Diego or Seattle to Miami than it is to fly between any two points in continental Europe.

I'm always a little surprised how Europeans routinely fail to grasp this.

It's because all their countries are itty bitty!  





NFL expansions have less to do with physical locations and more to do with TV rights.


-edit-

I also don't know what the fuck a NFL team would do to the CFL, the Argo's would be fucked for sure at the very least.

[ghost]

I have a suspicion that the Payton Manning era will be over in Indianapolis very soon. 

Two days after Peyton Manning publicly complained about the dour atmosphere at team headquarters following a 2-14 season and a rash of firings, Colts owner Jim Irsay introduced his new head coach and then stunned everyone by calling his franchise player a "politician" who had decided to air dirty laundry.

I don't know why Manning just doesn't retire.  His neck will never let him play at a high level again. 

[Johny Cee]

This is a post I grabbed from elsewhere on LT/Inside the NFL:

Anyone see Inside the NFL this week? They brought Lawrence Taylor on and just went directly into, as James Brown put it, "soliciting prostitution from an under age young woman." I have never seen anything even remotely this weirdly candid and terrible in a football context. It makes me genuinely uncomfortable but I am riveted. Like an interview version of the Breaking of Theisman's Leg. LT (the real LT) gets pretty candid and Collinsworth goes to town on him. Collinsworth prefaces the interview by denying Brown's comment that he (Collinsworth) had volunteered to be in this segment. "But I suppose I'll be here and *rolls eyes* do our journalistic duty..."

If I had to guess, LT wanted to do a softball mea culpa on some TV show, and Collinsworth bucked the bit and went after him. But what the fuck is this doing on Inside the NFL?

The interview was hard to watch.  JB or Chris would ask a hard question, and then they would let LT go.  They wouldn't jump in to save him when he was winding down.  They didn't go after him, but they asked him hard questions and then let LT talk.

And after the interview?  They kept LT around and he bullshitted and told stories, and busted on Phil Simms.

Another quote:

So not to misrepresent -- Collinsworth didn't insult him, he just asked hard, uncomfortable, prodding questions, and followed up. And Taylor, to his credit, took it pretty calmly. And then they had him later on with the larger group and basically shot the shit about the old days, golf, and Reggie White. LT made some pretty insightful comments about the Giants' pass rush. He said lots of teams rush wide to try and get around the pass protection, but the Giants push straight back, and "put the quarterback in an alley."

Oh Jesus, a mock viewer question... "Hey LT, can I have my leg back? Joe from Washington."

And then LT jokes, "I did him a favor... He was on the way out!"

"Dear LT, I heard what you said about Phil and Eli earlier. But seriously, I'm the best Giants quarterback from the Super Bowl Era. Jeff from West Virginia."

All told a pretty excellent episode. There might still be repeats running...

I am an avid watcher of Inside the NFL, and this was the best episode that I have ever seen. The interview was as hard hitting as any that I have ever watched, and LT made it through remarkably well. JB and Colinsworth were definately not pulling any punches, and LT's responses were as candid as it gets. I really liked how human it made LT look, and I was glad that his reaction was so authentic and there were no flowery promises of never making a mistake again.

The final segment just floored me. I have never seen Phil Simms as handled as LT did while sharing stories of the old days. I couldn't stop laughing. His 3-30 for 300 yards comments were just priceless. Also the Thiesman comments were freaking awesome. They made a note that Thiesman wasn't in the studio. I woulnd't be in the same room with LT ever again if I were him

[naum]

This is a post I grabbed from elsewhere on LT/Inside the NFL:

Anyone see Inside the NFL this week? They brought Lawrence Taylor on and just went directly into, as James Brown put it, "soliciting prostitution from an under age young woman." I have never seen anything even remotely this weirdly candid and terrible in a football context. It makes me genuinely uncomfortable but I am riveted. Like an interview version of the Breaking of Theisman's Leg. LT (the real LT) gets pretty candid and Collinsworth goes to town on him. Collinsworth prefaces the interview by denying Brown's comment that he (Collinsworth) had volunteered to be in this segment. "But I suppose I'll be here and *rolls eyes* do our journalistic duty..."

If I had to guess, LT wanted to do a softball mea culpa on some TV show, and Collinsworth bucked the bit and went after him. But what the fuck is this doing on Inside the NFL?

The interview was hard to watch.  JB or Chris would ask a hard question, and then they would let LT go.  They wouldn't jump in to save him when he was winding down.  They didn't go after him, but they asked him hard questions and then let LT talk.

LT was a great player but a psychopath. Players today like Harrison and others get lambasted for being assholes and menace to society types but LT was in a different league. I mean the recent stuff with child rape, drug arrests and leaving the scene of an accident  paper over the stuff influential people shielded him from during his playing days -- like mundane stuff of getting into an accident and punching out the other driver.

Though he never shot at passing motorists and police helicopters chasing in pursuit, while on freeway, like this famous Steeler defensive lineman.

He was convinced the trucks were after him. He pulled a shotgun from the floor and started shooting at the tires of passing trucks. He stuck his shotgun out the window, already blasted open by his own bullets, and kept shooting. The state police were on his tail now, chasing him at ninety miles an hour. He veered off the main road, blew out a tire, and jumped out of his car, running into a nearby forest. He carried his shotgun with him.

A police helicopter swirled overhead and Holmes, surrounded by state police, began shooting at it, hitting an officer in the ankle. Moments later, surrounded and exhausted, he was finally in cuffs. Said one officer afterward: "We could have killed him a dozen times."

That night in jail, Holmes called Dan Rooney. "We'll do everything we can for you," Rooney told him. "Try not to worry." It was a Saturday. Holmes would be in jail for the weekend, until a judge could hear his case and consider bail. He slept with a stick by his side, unaware that he was the biggest man in the cell.

That Monday, represented by a lawyer paid for by the Rooneys, Holmes was released on $45,000 bail, also paid by the Rooneys, and admitted to a psych hospital in western Pennsylvania, again paid for by the Rooneys. He was supposed to be there for a month. He stayed for two. Art Rooney visited nearly every day. L.C. Greenwood took him on supervised trips around town. This was a kid who showed only flashes of the kind of mental strength necessary to be a consistent starter. Yet he was treated as if he were Joe Greene. "We all thought," says Art Rooney Jr., "he needed mercy."

That summer, after his stay in the hospital, Holmes went back to Ohio and pled guilty to assault with a deadly weapon. At sentencing, a psychiatrist testified that he suffered from acute paranoid psychosis. Holmes was given five years probation. That July he was back in training camp. And that September he was the Steelers starting defensive tackle.

[K9]

I'm not downplaying the travel issue, it is a big one, but not an impossible one. Transatlantic flights are not as onerous as some of you seem to feel, and I don't imagine that the teams would be shoving their players into cattle class. As you say yourself, there are flights close in length (Miami to Seattle and LA-Boston are both about 5"30; London to Boston is 7 hours one way, 6 the other). If you run a series of road games together as a mini-tour you can cut down on transatlantic travel for the team. It's not an ideal situation though.

Flying might be uncomfortable for the working classes, but I am sure that most NFL teams (maybe not the Arizona Cardinals or other miserly owners) would splurge for ample seat space and amenities on board.

But is there a real swelling of clamor for NFL action in foreign locales? Outside of ex-pat and curiosity seeking? Maybe in a few of the larger Canadian markets (and I suspect there are only 2-3 maximum here), but I just cannot see sellouts in Madrid, Paris and Berlin.

London and the UK in general has a solid and growing fanbase for the NFL. Given a local franchise and adequate promotion it would be a pretty easy sell I think. I guess one measure of growing interest is the fact that there are now 72 UK universities with American football teams, and that number is growing steadily year. While the standard is not amazing (probably falling below most 3A or 4A high school leagues in competitive states). This number is up from 37 teams in 2005. There is also a substantial Am-Pro interest in the country, probably similar to the level of interest people in the US have for the Premier League or La Liga. It's not enough to support its own league, but a single team would be no problem. The sell-out preseason games at Wembly are mostly Londoners and other British NFL fans, not a motley crew of ex-pats and such.