Rift: Planes of Telara

[kildorn]

Multi mob pulls kill for the same reason they do in lowbie other MMOs: they suddenly outpace your natural regen/healing and force you into a defensive losing grind.

I've only really had issues leveling a rogue that was trying to split roles (was taking dps, tank, and support skills). I respecced into pure dps and started melting things.

[DLRiley]

I really agree with 1 and 2. After being disappointed with my kelari I rolled a guardian flavor human. Wow does she have some wide, child-bearing hips and an ass to match.

I play a game for that.

[Merusk]

When you guys say "multi mobs" what level and how many are we talking?  I didn't have any problems killing 2 at a time on a Reaver up to level 7, when I quit playing.  2 melee and a caster, however, ate me but casters in general were tougher for me than melee types.

[snowwy]

It's not harder. Died twice in 14 levels due to my own stupidity. Not sure i wanna keep following this game, i'd get hooked :(  It's purdy and all........i ust made up my mind....fuck this!
I'll stay with my fps' and WoT. Less soul-crunching stuff my way :p

[Ashamanchill]

And in case you didn't notice, I said _slightly_ harder.

Falconeer, even though I have never met you, I can tell that you are a newb. I hate you noobz that come and to the game and try to water down content for those that are actually skilled enough to handle it. Me and my guild (CuTTiNG eDGe) farm two of these games regularlI would say that you should learn to play, but I actually think you should unistall the game and go play one of those facebook games where you are rewarded for dying.

 

[Zetor]

In my experience, multipulls became more difficult to handle at level 15+. I could do 2 on my warlock if I used my CDs well, maybe 3 if it was possible to fear a mob without screwing myself (usually not due to mob and patrol density).

Re cues and whatnot: I'd like some clearer sfx and graphic cues for abilities in general. When I was pugging iron tombs, I would've liked to see when the healer/tank used their cooldowns, if the other mage was already ccing that loose mob or just nuking, when one of the mobs was casting vs meleeing, etc; wow does this kind of stuff very clearly. Does this become more apparent later on?

[Shatter]

As a bard / riftstalker I can tank and kill 4 mobs easily and not fall below half

[Nija]

When you guys say "multi mobs" what level and how many are we talking?  I didn't have any problems killing 2 at a time on a Reaver up to level 7, when I quit playing.  2 melee and a caster, however, ate me but casters in general were tougher for me than melee types.

I didn't play the last two beta sessions, but prior to that it seemed like my Inquis/Warden/Sentinel could handle an unlimited amount of even level mobs. I never bothered to try more than 6, but 6 seems to be plenty. I'm not sure if melee clerics would have as much survivability as the Inquis (which is ranged) because the inquis has an instant cast DOT that returns 90% (talents) of the damage done as health. Plus you have an instant cast heal and an instant cast heal over time from the other two souls. Then again I intentionally skipped the melee cleric classes, as they didn't have the obvious pvp advantages that the Inquisitor class has. It's been years since I've been hardcore enough to bother with PVP, but I still look at everything from that angle.

[Zetor]

Yep, I saw level 19-ish clerics (not sure what souls, but I remember that one of them used a sword/shield) soloing 5+ mobs effortlessly in beta 1. My warlock was doing ok due to the self heals, but to solo 3+ mobs at a time I needed to get a full 'turn charge into HP' channel in, which was doable through luck or cc.

[Hayduke]

I think people will experiment and find what specs work well for things and what don't.  I initially tried a necromancer thinking it'd be a great solo class, but found they take too long to ramp up their damage and don't even do that much damage once they do.  Respecced to a warlock with 0-pt elementalist for a tank pet, and it was much easier.  More dps at the start of a fight, more at the end, plus AE to handle adds.

[rattran]

Things have changed pretty majorly over the betas, what was true in the first may be entirely different now.

[Hoax]

PvP in this game is predictably assy. Since I figure people will ask, I'm basing this off sadly one session of the first BG at 19 (I did about 6 games) and one night of world pvp on a pvp server going from defiant contested all the way to guardian zones and fighting a variety of skirmishes both fair and unfair involving npcs and not.

-There is something not quite right with the feel of mouse targeting in Rift and that is a really really bad thing in pvp.
-What the fuck is up with auto attack in this game for that matter? Its hard to tell if your even auto attacking or if you should be or if its on or off. It seems to toggle itself at will for reasons I couldn't ever pin down.
-Town respawn timer is insanely short you can't raid outposts and take them out and have it matter as they respawn before you'll make it to the next one. Guard respawns are literally instantaneous in some places and overall are so quick that you'll lose a war of attrition unless you are far overlevel'd for the zone. Which of course means everyone will only attack zones they are way overlevel'd for.
-Levels mean far too much. You can't effectively pvp anyone who is 5+ levels and if they are 3+ you are going to suffer from magical too much level difference penalties. Those are guesstimates due to lack of data but it was very noticable that all our abilities would become half as effective versus people who were level 30 when we were levels 25-27.
-You can /yell and the opposing faction can hear and understand you. This will not end well.
-Player Pvp respawns are too fast. They may have a good system in place for forcing the attackers to respawn in remote parts of the zones but defenders respawn as fast as original WoW which rendered world pvp into a choke them with your corpses zergfest and will probably do the same in Rift.

The first BG is shit. What a fucking boring gametype. I know some people are saying "omg I'm so glad its not CTF" well I have this to say to those people: your opinions suck and you're stupid and I hate you. Also a 9 level spread is a joke in a game where if you are +5 levels you should feel bad if you aren't 3-shotting people. I was doing half damage on non warriors with a single ability if they are 14 when I was 19 if someone had been level 10 I can't imagine how irrelevant they would be.

Rewards for BG play seemed quite good in the exp department and who knows how the pvp currency rewards pan out I didn't have nearly enough time to do comparisons and test out how many matches it would take per item or anything like that.

Verdict: If you think your going to get enjoyment out of the world pvp and that's why your buying this game. Don't.

[Threash]

Rewards for BG play seemed quite good in the exp department and who knows how the pvp currency rewards pan out I didn't have nearly enough time to do comparisons and test out how many matches it would take per item or anything like that.

Verdict: If you think your going to get enjoyment out of the world pvp and that's why your buying this game. Don't.

It took me about four hours of pvping to earn enough to buy the pvp soul, as a guardian with instant queues but a lot of losing.  It seemed about right, but i'm not sure how the gear will go.

[Sheepherder]

You can /yell and the opposing faction can hear and understand you. This will not end well.

Here comes the rape train, Choo Choo!
FOFOFOFO
FOFOFOFO
FOFOFOFO
FOFOFOFO

I'm surprised nobody does centreflag CTF.

[Spiff]

I can't for the life of me figure out why everyone that enters a BG doesn't get mentored to the same level.
Played a few games as Saboteur and it was ridiculous, I could basically oneshot anyone 3-5 levels below me (place 5 charges and detonate that is).

With open world PvP I'm wondering if maybe they won't ease up in the higher level zones (so you can actually capture and keep a base), in the lowbie zones you could stop a side from levelling almost entirely if you capture and keep the right base/town, I doubt many of those people would keep subbing.

Might be moot no matter what though: level > all + world PvP = nightmare; how they plan on fixing that I have no idea.

[ezrast]

How do PvP servers work? I guess I had assumed it was just PvE + ganking a la WoW; didn't know about town capturing. Does it add anything to the game?

[Segoris]

The first BG is shit. What a fucking boring gametype. I know some people are saying "omg I'm so glad its not CTF" well I have this to say to those people: your opinions suck and you're stupid and I hate you.

Rewards for BG play seemed quite good in the exp department and who knows how the pvp currency rewards pan out I didn't have nearly enough time to do comparisons and test out how many matches it would take per item or anything like that.

Verdict: If you think your going to get enjoyment out of the world pvp and that's why your buying this game. Don't.

They will have ctf based on a release that was done covering the types of battlegrounds/warfronts/whatever.

Rewards are actually pretty good. Guardians have insta queues and had it easier, but as a defiant with longer queues it still only took about 2 hours to get my chest piece and other piece of gear (I forget which it was). The pvp soul I earned through world pvp back in beta 3, that was fucking brutal as world pvp in this game is not nearly rewarding enough or encouraged in almost any way yet, which is a bit sad. Though, it's truly not a world pvp game at heart, that much is pretty obvious. If there was any intentions to hook the world pvp players, they missed the mark about as much as they possibly could.

For instanced pvp, they really do need a bolster/level equalizer type of system such as WARs bolster system, or to make the battlegrounds 5 level difference, with level 50s in their own instances.

First zones (1-20) people need to flag when in their home lands, after that pretty much everywhere is open game. So it's the wow pvp-server ruleset. The guards at towns are equal level to the environment without elite guards, but they can definitely hurt a roaming group when that group has to deal with guards, merchants, and players.
How do PvP servers work? I guess I had assumed it was just PvE + ganking a la WoW; didn't know about town capturing. Does it add anything to the game?

[Falconeer]

didn't know about town capturing.

Me neither. Is there town capturing? Last time I checked open world PvP is absolutely meaningless. Confirm? Deny?

[Nija]

This is a cross-genre regression, but I think it applies. Developers, take note of the following statement.

Nobody gives a fuck about CTF unless it involves grappling hooks.

[Rendakor]

I believe town capturing refers to the age old practice of slaughtering quest givers, merchants, etc.

[Falconeer]

I believe town capturing refers to the age old practice of slaughtering quest givers, merchants, etc.

Oh, and camp respawn points. Ah yeah, that's open world PvP... 

(Seriously, Trion?)

[Hoax]

I believe town capturing refers to the age old practice of slaughtering quest givers, merchants, etc.

Considering that there are wardstones and the ability to summon your factions npc's I had hoped something interesting might come of it. So we went to the most remote part of the zone and tested it out. Summon'd Defiant npc's and atacked with them plus three players who were of the zones level. We took the npc's out and took the wardstone out. I was hoping our team would now summon a wardstone for a little hostile takeover action and some light backup perhaps. Instead our npc's hadn't even decided what they were doing next before the Guardian wardstone and all npc's respwaned on top of us. It was literally maybe a 2 minute timer if that.

So no. Nothing happens. World pvp isn't even on the agenda of things to not make suck.

This is not a pvp game. Don't play it if you care about pvp.

[Sky]

This is not a pvp game. Don't play it if you care about pvp.

You wouldn't know that from the amount of nerfs due to pvp balancing, a single pve/pvp system (unlike EQ2, where pvp changes don't affect the pve game), and the only specialized souls announced being pvp souls.

[Hoax]

I didn't say the developers weren't stupid. I just said it wasn't a pvp game.

[Nebu]

You wouldn't know that from the amount of nerfs due to pvp balancing, a single pve/pvp system (unlike EQ2, where pvp changes don't affect the pve game), and the only specialized souls announced being pvp souls.

Bad bad bad mistake.  PvE is where the money is.  If they screw it up in favor of some meta game for a niche, then they're slamming themselves in the wallet. 

[Ratama]

PvE is where the money is.

No, making a complete MMO* that allows both PvP and PvE communities to flourish and feed off on another is where the money is.

A PvE or PvP-excluding MMO* is niche, not v/v.

*edit: game

[Paelos]

PvE is where the money is.

No, making a complete MMO* that allows both PvP and PvE communities to flourish and feed off on another is where the money is.

A PvE or PvP-excluding MMO* is niche, not v/v.

*edit: game

Nobody knows exactly where the money is from a design standpoint. They only know that it's in WoW.

[Ratama]

WoW isn't WoW without PvP (durka durka).

Even EQ would have suffered with no PvP at all (anyone remember the Tallon/Vallon Zek rush?).

I know a lot of folks won't remember this, but Shadowbane would have had a chance to do in EQ before WoW did, had it been a technically sound game.

My brother got offered $10k at work for his (read: my) SB beta account (this was about 8 months prior to the eventual launch, iirc; so there was only 'officially' about 3 months left of beta at that point); not only are there lots of MMO players that want PvP in their game, they'll spend at least as much cash as PvEers will (assuming you want to drag in microtrans/F2P models or whatnot).

[Mrbloodworth]

PvE is where the money is.

No, making a complete MMO* that allows both PvP and PvE communities to flourish and feed off on another is where the money is.

A PvE or PvP-excluding MMO* is niche, not v/v.

*edit: game

Nobody knows exactly where the money is from a design standpoint. They only know that it's in WoW.

Count the number of PvP servers. Battle grounds do not count. Thats PvP when you are ready. Not usually what one means when they talk of PvP games. (Ill forgo the mention of PvG )

[Threash]

There is virtually no difference between pvp and pve servers in wow anymore they all  pvp now.  And ganking lowbies while they level is not what i think about when i think pvp, world pvp is pretty much dead last in my pvp interests and i only play games for pvp.

[Nebu]

WoW isn't WoW without PvP (durka durka).

Even EQ would have suffered with no PvP at all (anyone remember the Tallon/Vallon Zek rush?).

I know a lot of folks won't remember this, but Shadowbane would have had a chance to do in EQ before WoW did, had it been a technically sound game.

My brother got offered $10k at work for his (read: my) SB beta account (this was about 8 months prior to the eventual launch, iirc; so there was only 'officially' about 3 months left of beta at that point); not only are there lots of MMO players that want PvP in their game, they'll spend at least as much cash as PvEers will (assuming you want to drag in microtrans/F2P models or whatnot).

PvP is niche.  If you eliminated pvp from WoW entirely, I doubt that it would lose more than 100k subs.  People want ding gratz and phat lootz.  Both are more readily dispensed from NPCs.  The key is to build a better amusement park ride that allows as many pulls of the slot machine as you can fit in a game session. 

The masses want WoW-like Deer Hunter.  It's the niche that wants EvE. 

[Merusk]

I love this argument every year when it comes up.  Neither side can be proven right or wrong because nobody's cut either element out of their game entirely.

[Nebu]

I love this argument every year when it comes up.  Neither side can be proven right or wrong because nobody's cut either element out of their game entirely.

Are you suggesting that WoW would have 11 million subs if it were a PvP only MMO?  I'd be willing to bet my house that wouldn't be the case.

PvP is something for PvE gamers to do as a distraction.  PvE is an annoyance that PvP players tolerate to climb the power curve. 

See where I'm going with this?

[Ratama]

I love this argument every year when it comes up.  Neither side can be proven right or wrong because nobody's cut either element out of their game entirely.

That's the side that's right.  Any non-niche MMO is going to be a full-service enterprise.

[Ratama]

PvP is niche.  If you eliminated pvp from WoW entirely, I doubt that it would lose more than 100k subs.

God help your retarded ass if you really believe that.