Viable/Valuable play style?

[Rodivar]

As evidenced by my 20 post in 3 years here, I'm kinda a behind the scenes guy.  I started my 14 day trial last night (insidious game, it was 2am before I noticed) and think I'm going to really like the depth of this game.   I have upgraded to my frigate a Atron and will likely subscribe to the game. 

Questions

1.  Is a support type play style valuable-  Gallente drone dude who uses drones to repair others during battle, keeps fast movers at bay and does electronic counter measures.  AKA crowd control healer type?

2.  I've read the goon starter templates and training stuff, how do I access the more advanced training material at the wiki?

3.  Early game, should I just focus on mining and skill training for the time being?

4.  How do I contact you all in game?

5.  Should I wait till I'm not a sitting duck to get a corp tag?

Thanks in advance and sorry for my post in the "war" thread  :)

[Slayerik]

Spy.

[Rodivar]

Spy.

Very nice, I already love this game as I now find myself in a quandary. 

If I seek to disprove (which would be impossible)  I then fall into the "thou dost protest too much" scenario

What to do...what to do?!

That post made me smile...!

Well assuming I am, which I'm not, would answering those questions expose the "sekrits" of the game? 

 If not could you give em a shot?

edit: I just figured realized the genius of the whole spy thing, what chances does a society have when they all fear their neighbors..... brilliant.    I like this game even more now!

[NiX]

2.  I've read the goon starter templates and training stuff, how do I access the more advanced training material at the wiki?

3.  Early game, should I just focus on mining and skill training for the time being?

4.  How do I contact you all in game?

5.  Should I wait till I'm not a sitting duck to get a corp tag?

Thanks in advance and sorry for my post in the "war" thread  :)

2. You have to be a part of GoonFleet/Swarm to get further access to the wiki. Someone here would have to vouch for you for you to get in, though your posting history makes it a lot harder for you to get in.

3. Mining only if you want to. You can mission for iskies and if you skill up for salvaging you can make even more monies selling the stuff you salvage from all the wrecks.

4. Join the channel "F13". If you've done the tutorial you should know how to join channels

5. Yes and no. Technically you could join a corp now, but if it's something like GoonFleet, you'll have to move to 0.0 space or else you're likely to get pew pew'd in 1.0 space.

[Slayerik]

Exactly. Even with your proven 3 years of being registered, you could be some Bob lurker just grinning his ass off.

Truth is, I don't think you're a spy. I think you're a great spy. ;)

[NiX]

You never said anything that nice to me :(

[Rodivar]

Exactly. Even with your proven 3 years of being registered, you could be some Bob lurker just grinning his ass off.

Truth is, I don't think you're a spy. I think you're a great spy. ;)

I am truly flattered!

Anyway, I'm not pressed to be part of the inner circle or anything so it's all good and I'm not willing to do any rubber glove checks for recording devices so I'll just have to live on the fringe of acceptance. 

What I really need more than anything is advice really, no need to move to 0.0 and get ganked just to wear a corp tag. 

Beyond the counter intelligence intrigue (which really sounds fun) does the type of character I talked about... support/drone/repair/small skirmish/electronic counter measure  guy have a place in Eve or do you need to play more direct...big fast ships, big hard hitting guns/heavy hull plating, to be successful?

Thanks in advance for sharing any insights...

[bhodi]

I was with you until the spoiler. You're trying too hard.

[Rodivar]

I was with you until the spoiler. You're trying too hard.

Understood,

With that in mind, what about the play style question?

Forget access to the wiki, channel, resources, anything...just some advice...no risk there right?

Edit: I should explain..  I played SB and I get the whole "spy" thing and can see how it is an issue in this game.   I've been on these boards for 3 years and don't post much so I can see the whole "lurker" angle, I understand.  I'm not offended, upset, disappointed it's just a fact I don't post that much, if ever.   

Now I have a few choices...
1. Try to validate myself defending my posting habits, not inclined to defend the fact that I read more than post. 
2.  Somehow prove I'm not a Spy buy presenting some acceptable association, I have none, all my associations are unacceptable :)
3.  Accept the fact that I don't post enough here to part of the inner circle and not worry about it.


I choose option 3 (modified)  I won't be part of the corp but hopefully can take advantage of the collective wisdom of the players here to make the game as enjoyable as possible.  The truth is you all arn't missing much as I suck at PvP and despite my posting history am more a  socializer in games than an a acheiver. 

So lets just assume I am a potential spy and exclude me from any offical associations or information.  If I could get some general help that would be more than I need and very much appreciated. 

[Amarr HM]

My Spydey senses are tingling.

[IainC]

I was with you until the spoiler. You're trying too hard.

Understood,

With that in mind, what about the play style question?

Forget access to the wiki, channel, resources, anything...just some advice...no risk there right?

In general, yes you can play effectively like that. It requires you to be in a reasonably organised corp however as there are some logistical overheads that are required to make the role really effective (gang makeup, voice comms, etc).

As a noob in most corps, your PvP role will likely be to fly very cheap ships loaded up with cheap electronic warfare modules and to generally cause a nuisance. It takes a while before you have the skills to do significant DPS or survive being primaried for long so your early experiences are generally going to assume that you will die a lot. As you get more skills and more experience, you can choose to specialise in ewar, gang boosting and interdiction roles as you laid out in your first post. it will be a while before you are really useful at that however and those skills won't always be in demand depending on the kind of op your corp is running on the day.

To answer for a very general case, spider tank gangs (fleets where most or all members are remotely repairing each other) are pretty effective and there are particular ships which excel in that setup. Recon ships that jam the enemy and severely impact his effectiveness are also almost always useful in any given situation.

[Slayerik]

You never said anything that nice to me :(

You never buy me nice things anymore.

[Rodivar]

I was with you until the spoiler. You're trying too hard.

Understood,

With that in mind, what about the play style question?

Forget access to the wiki, channel, resources, anything...just some advice...no risk there right?

In general, yes you can play effectively like that. It requires you to be in a reasonably organised corp however as there are some logistical overheads that are required to make the role really effective (gang makeup, voice comms, etc).

As a noob in most corps, your PvP role will likely be to fly very cheap ships loaded up with cheap electronic warfare modules and to generally cause a nuisance. It takes a while before you have the skills to do significant DPS or survive being primaried for long so your early experiences are generally going to assume that you will die a lot. As you get more skills and more experience, you can choose to specialise in ewar, gang boosting and interdiction roles as you laid out in your first post. it will be a while before you are really useful at that however and those skills won't always be in demand depending on the kind of op your corp is running on the day.

To answer for a very general case, spider tank gangs (fleets where most or all members are remotely repairing each other) are pretty effective and there are particular ships which excel in that setup. Recon ships that jam the enemy and severely impact his effectiveness are also almost always useful in any given situation.

IainC & Nix thank you very much...

[IainC]

If you just want some cheap and easy PvP practice without joining a failcrew, then you could probably do worse than sign up at your local militia office for the factional warfare. That's designed to be accessible PvP for players who migt not be ready/willing/able to go to a full on PvP corp or live in 0.0.

It's going to sound a little elitist, but I'm afraid it's true that any corp which will take you in as a noob combat pilot cold from the streets is probably a fail crew and you wouldn't want to join them anyway. Most of the decent corps have SP minimums or other recruiting metrics that would mostly disbar new players who were looking to join any random corp. Join up with guys you know is always the best plan but failing that try and build up a history of competence somewhere.

[Sparky]

1.  Is a support type play style valuable-  Gallente drone dude who uses drones to repair others during battle, keeps fast movers at bay and does electronic counter measures.

You can fly a "healer" or "crowd control" ship, and people will love you for it.  Not really both at once though.

[Slayerik]

1.  Is a support type play style valuable-  Gallente drone dude who uses drones to repair others during battle, keeps fast movers at bay and does electronic counter measures.

You can fly a "healer" or "crowd control" ship, and people will love you for it.  Not really both at once though.

Just get the ecm rolling at max range and switch to your second client for the logistics love...DUH!

[Rodivar]

Thanks again for he insights...

Well despite my questionable pedigree I would love a shout out in game

Name:  Gagain Yuri

Variation of ...

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Who_was_the_first_person_in_space

Oops..he's Russian....Oh No!

[Amarr HM]

1.  Is a support type play style valuable-  Gallente drone dude who uses drones to repair others during battle, keeps fast movers at bay and does electronic counter measures.  AKA crowd control healer type?

2.  I've read the goon starter templates and training stuff, how do I access the more advanced training material at the wiki?

3.  Early game, should I just focus on mining and skill training for the time being?

5.  Should I wait till I'm not a sitting duck to get a corp tag?

Thanks in advance and sorry for my post in the "war" thread  :)

1. Support roles ares quite valuable & sought after but I think interdictor (ships that can drop warp disruptor bubble) pilots are the most sought after role, interceptors are one of the fastest way (training wise) to be extremely valuable in PvP though you can do similar work in tackling frigs with mere out of the box skills. Gallente don't have the best support ships and supporting with drones can be limiting in lots of ways though the dominix is great for remote-rep support. Better to fly a logistics ship, scimitar and guardian are the best for PvP & Falcon is by far the best electronic warfare ship, the Gallente version (Arazu) is the worst.
Minmatar would probably be your best choice Caldari/Amarr a close second I'd go with Amarr ships cause you get to use lasers ;)

2. & 5. Join the Goons (if they let you) it will dramatically increase the speed in which you learn this is the main benefit of joining any well organised helpful corp form the getgo but being in Goonswarm will also steepen that already mountainous learning curve as you will have to move to 0.0 as has been said. Joining GS from day 1 will really seem like jumping in the deepend but could be worth the risk if that's what you want.

3. Learning skills should be priority at the beginning, if you need quick ISK injection salvaging is the fastest way to make a quick buck in the early game.

[Rodivar]

1.  Is a support type play style valuable-  Gallente drone dude who uses drones to repair others during battle, keeps fast movers at bay and does electronic counter measures.  AKA crowd control healer type?

2.  I've read the goon starter templates and training stuff, how do I access the more advanced training material at the wiki?

3.  Early game, should I just focus on mining and skill training for the time being?

5.  Should I wait till I'm not a sitting duck to get a corp tag?

Thanks in advance and sorry for my post in the "war" thread  :)

1. Support roles ares quite valuable & sought after but I think interdictor (ships that can drop warp disruptor bubble) pilots are the most sought after role, interceptors are one of the fastest way (training wise) to be extremely valuable in PvP though you can do similar work in tackling frigs with mere out of the box skills. Gallente don't have the best support ships and supporting with drones can be limiting in lots of ways though the dominix is great for remote-rep support. Better to fly a logistics ship, scimitar and guardian are the best for PvP & Falcon is by far the best electronic warfare ship, the Gallente version (Arazu) is the worst.
Minmatar would probably be your best choice Caldari/Amarr a close second I'd go with Amarr ships cause you get to use lasers ;)

2. & 5. Join the Goons (if they let you) it will dramatically increase the speed in which you learn this is the main benefit of joining any well organised helpful corp form the getgo but being in Goonswarm will also steepen that already mountainous learning curve as you will have to move to 0.0 as has been said. Joining GS from day 1 will really seem like jumping in the deepend but could be worth the risk if that's what you want.

3. Learning skills should be priority at the beginning, if you need quick ISK injection salvaging is the fastest way to make a quick buck in the early game.

GREAT STUFF....thank you. 

Remote Rep Support= Remote repairs?

And do Gallente have any good logistics ships?

Again thanks much....

I think I'm gonna mess around making ISK and training for awhile before I jump in deep.  The salvaging sounds like a good idea I'll add that to my skill que. 

[Amarr HM]

The good thing about gallente is they have a workable T1 logistics in the exequror but the T2 Oneiros isn't as good as the Guardian. Scimitars are shield reppers so good for HAC gangs and signature tanking gangs. Oh and yes remote rep is remote repairing or spider tanking it's more popular than using logistics this is cause T2 ships are expensive and lightweight by comparison also you don't always get in on killmails, so not always a good ship to use especially in laggy situations. The problems you will encounter more than what is best to train for is what can I afford to use and be of some use on a regular basis, cause the number one rule is never fly what you can't afford to lose.

[Roentgen]

I can't agree more when people say to start salvaging.  I only just last week began salvaging.  It can double your income.  JUST DO IT.

[Grand Design]

I agree with Amarr about, em, Amarr.  Its a harder path, but having lasers is too much fun.  The soothing sounds of pulsating destruction make even the most tedious POS shoots enjoyable.

As for your 'healer' comparison, the great thing about Eve is that you can adopt any playstyle as needed.  There are no class restrictions - anyone can train any skill.  Going for Logistics at some point is a great way to get Much Love from your fleet.  Even without logistics, you can easily train for an Osprey (Caldari cruisers) and an Augoror (Amarr cruisers.)  The Osprey is a good shield repping ship and the Augoror is good for capacitor and armor repping.

My general advice would be to pick the battleship you want to eventually fly.  Get EveMon and import your character.  Create a new skillplan to be able to board your chosen BS - then, importantly, find a decent fitting for the ship and plug those components into the items portion of EveMon's skill planner.  Add the skills required for each.  When that skillplan is finished, you will be able to effectively fly the ship, not just be a target.  Then make other skillplans to do things you want to do - mining, logisitcs (healing), whatever creams your Twinkie.  Bounce between plans as you desire.  Remember that you can start to train a skill and then switch to another without even getting it to level 1.  This way you can 'store' skills to learn later without having them in your cargo or station.

And to echo others, salvaging is incredibly lucrative, effort-wise.  But, if you're a spy, you know this already!


Edit: Look at me with my 1000th post.  This calls for a Heineken.

[Phildo]

Just popping by here to note that though he has a low post count, Rodivar has been with F13 a long time (since Waterthread, yes?).

Join the channel "F13" in-game and talk to us there.

Also, to emphasize: get your basic learning skills to 4 and the advanced learning skills to 3 asap.  It will save you a LOT of time in the long run.  And salvaging is pretty cool, too.

[Grand Design]

Also, to emphasize: get your basic learning skills to 4 and the advanced learning skills to 3 asap.  It will save you a LOT of time in the long run.  And salvaging is pretty cool, too.

QFT.  My second character rivals my first in skillpoints even though she is much younger, simply because I ignored this advice.

[Rodivar]

Just popping by here to note that though he has a low post count, Rodivar has been with F13 a long time (since Waterthread, yes?).

Join the channel "F13" in-game and talk to us there.

Also, to emphasize: get your basic learning skills to 4 and the advanced learning skills to 3 asap.  It will save you a LOT of time in the long run.  And salvaging is pretty cool, too.

Chris, yes thank you, from back in the Waterthread days...

I will pick up Salvaging ASAP.

Grand Design- great advice, I just ran into this issue.  I purchased Hull Upgrades 1 and left it at a station because I was training something else.  I got done training and went to train only then realizing I was at the wrong base.  I had to fly all the way back to training academy to get my book and start training.  The start/stop will save me the fear of loosing my books when I die (which I have a few times).   

I'm new enough that starting over isn't a problem, should I start over or just train the ships mentioned.  I'm currently following this http://wiki.goonfleet.com/index.php?title=Recommended_Skill_Training_Guide and am up to step 10 hull upgrades. 

Anyway, thanks to everyone for all the advice it's been a great help.  This game has a pretty steep learning curve so being able to ask questions like this has been a godsend. 

[Amarr HM]

And to echo others, salvaging is incredibly lucrative, effort-wise.  But, if you're a spy, you know this already!
Edit: Look at me with my 1000th post.  This calls for a Heineken.

Grats fella!

[palmer_eldritch]

Just popping by here to note that though he has a low post count, Rodivar has been with F13 a long time (since Waterthread, yes?).

Join the channel "F13" in-game and talk to us there.

Also, to emphasize: get your basic learning skills to 4 and the advanced learning skills to 3 asap.  It will save you a LOT of time in the long run.  And salvaging is pretty cool, too.

Chris, yes thank you, from back in the Waterthread days...

I will pick up Salvaging ASAP.

Grand Design- great advice, I just ran into this issue.  I purchased Hull Upgrades 1 and left it at a station because I was training something else.  I got done training and went to train only then realizing I was at the wrong base.  I had to fly all the way back to training academy to get my book and start training.  The start/stop will save me the fear of loosing my books when I die (which I have a few times).   

I'm new enough that starting over isn't a problem, should I start over or just train the ships mentioned.  I'm currently following this http://wiki.goonfleet.com/index.php?title=Recommended_Skill_Training_Guide and am up to step 10 hull upgrades. 

Anyway, thanks to everyone for all the advice it's been a great help.  This game has a pretty steep learning curve so being able to ask questions like this has been a godsend. 

I'm pretty much a noob myself, so not the best person to give advice. However, that wont' stop me.

I wouldn't worry if you have trained the "wrong" skills. They might come in useful one day, and they don't in any way penalise you if you start training something different.

Eg, if you have trained for Gallente frigates and start training for Caldari frigates, you are in the same position as a brand new character training for Caldari frigates (except that you might need to buy the skillbook, but that shouldn't be a problem).

The only thing I might consider is your attributes. This guide here: http://wiki.goonfleet.com/index.php?title=Basic_Character_Creation sets out why perception and intelligence are the ones to go for.

Having said that, my character has lousy perception but I like his portrait, so I'm keeping him.

[Rodivar]

Having said that, my character has lousy perception but I like his portrait, so I'm keeping him.

Now that's a attitude I can relate to!

I read that and tried to be future proof as possible.

Int- 11pts
Perception -10 pts
Charisma 7 pts
Will - 11 pts
Memory - 10 pts.

[Phildo]

Nothing at all wrong with Gallente, just that some of the other races are better at certain specialties than they are.  Someone already said that you should pick the ship you want to fly and skill up for that.  Me, I very much enjoy flying Gallente battleships in PvP and their logistics (priest) ship, while not quite as uber as the Amarr's Guardian, is still extremely good at what it does.

To be more specific, both the Guardian and Oneiros have bonuses to remote armor repair, but the Guardian also has a bonus to remote capacitor transfer (battery power!) whereas the Oneiros gets remote tracking links (less useful).  This leads to a lot of theorycrafting, but that's the basic gist of it.

[Slayerik]

Just popping by here to note that though he has a low post count, Rodivar has been with F13 a long time (since Waterthread, yes?).

He just might be the greatest spy ever.

[Rodivar]

Just popping by here to note that though he has a low post count, Rodivar has been with F13 a long time (since Waterthread, yes?).

He just might be the greatest spy ever.

Ok, ok you have broken me.

Just promise I get to keep "Natasha" and I will tell you everything I know....  4 years undercover is too much even for EVE!


/OOC  do all drones fly around like humming birds on crack or only these light ones?

[Phildo]

Drones are very, very dumb.  But warriors(light explosive drones) are the worst of them.

[Rodivar]

Drones are very, very dumb.  But warriors(light explosive drones) are the worst of them.

Chris, how do you have your boat outfitted?  Do you heavily on our drone advantage or are they a tertiary consideration in you play?

Note: Talk about inflation, I thought I was doing pretty good flying around doing mission for agents, mining, got up to a whopping 900k isk! 

Then I looked at the cost of the criuser skill, friggin 450k, I guess I will have to reset my perception of "well".  Kinda feels like one of those 10 year old EQ servers where collecting  bat wings can make a noob rich.    The good news is despite the sticker shock my income is staying ahead of my cost needs so despite the excessive number of 0000's on the back of everything, things are not cost prohibitive. 

[Phildo]

For missioning, up until level 4s I relied almost entirely on drones for my DPS.  When you get into cruisers, the vexor will be your best friend because it can put up a significant tank and dish out a ton of damage.  The progression for a Gallente missioner would be something like Incursus --> Vexor --> Myrmidon --> Dominix.

[Comstar]

1.  Is a support type play style valuable-  Gallente drone dude who uses drones to repair others during battle, keeps fast movers at bay and does electronic counter measures.  AKA crowd control healer type?

Absolutely. The current Flavor Of The Month for PVP is the arch typical Caldari Tech 2  Falcon cruiser that decloaks and jamms you 200km while his buddy in a HAC comes in and kill you. Used to be the Rapier until it got nurfed. Caldari, and to a lesser extent Minmater EW ships are always useful. The Gallente EW ship stops people warping off at longer than normal ranges so actually is probably the most survivable after the Falcon.

In battle-space-priests aren't that useful because Fleet Commanders *never* use them. However, the Gallente Tech 2 Armour Rep ship is in high demand for repping POS mods. They could be extremely useful in small gangs, but again, FC's never use them to their full potential. 

2.  I've read the goon starter templates and training stuff, how do I access the more advanced training material at the wiki?

Any LOVEU member could get you in to Goonswarm, but consider this- if you turn out to be a spy, said member will also be kicked out. Yes, this sucks, and is yet another example of CCP wanting to be able to grief their player base more than making a playable game experience.  Despite Goonfleet's well known bias for encouraging noobs to 0.0, this only applies to members of SA who *also* have a high post count. LOVEU, Merch, Ars Discordia etc etc  all have the same problem- wonderful access to 0.0 for noobs with a good community...so long as you are already a member of said community.


3.  Early game, should I just focus on mining and skill training for the time being?

My advice is stay away from mining and do missions, at least their more interesting for a time, and you'll learn the basics. If you want more fun and experience, train up to assault frigates and go do R&D missions, following the chain of better agents till you get to High Quality Level 3 agents in Low Sec. It'll teach you how to avoid low-sec pirates but still be survivable. Train skills all the time and get some implants- +1's are incrediably cheap and you can get them doing missions yourself. Don't bother with Destroyers, and do missions in empire in Cruisers.


4.  How do I contact you all in game?

Tune the "F13" channel. Always someone in there, no matter the time zone from what I have seen.


5.  Should I wait till I'm not a sitting duck to get a corp tag?

If you do get into Goonswarm, you'll want to get out of Empire as fast as possible anyway. However, it's not easy to get money in 0.0 in a frigate, though it's possible. My advice is to be able to train and rat in a cruiser, but at that point there's no further need to wait as you can Rat in a cruiser and PvP in a frigate comfortably. Goonfleet's main market hubs are very well supplied with tech 1 gear.