War

[trevorreznik]

So what's happend so far todaY?  I thought a ton of towers were coming out of reinforce?

So far we've killed every tower that came out in several systems bar one, I think (which we didn't turn up for, before DT).  Just killed a CSAA right now: no doubt Dianabollox will come on and claim that it only contained a hedge, and that they have already planted a new hedge, and didn't want that hedge anyway.

The trouble with letting us kill what - half a dozen towers already? - is that whatever the achieve tonight will have to be truly stellar (all our towers into reinforced with a lot on Russian prime timers so they can be killed by AAA or something like that, or maybe kill a titan and a biggish dread fleet, which is entirely possible with all those AAA caps) in order not to make this still a pretty good day.  I know of one system we just achieved majority in, and I think they now have to save sov in half a dozen or so not to lose stations.  The sov timer for sov 3 has already been reset in all but one of the ones we're going for right now, I think.

And re ZS we took it over a couple of different periods of time, once when we started putting up towers, and once when they forgot to online one and didn't replace a medium because of our presence, giving it back to us a week later.    A lot of us here shot that station on those occasions.  I once scared off their half dozen battleships trying to get it back when sov reverted by tripleboxing a falcon, a chimera and a crow for one-man fighterbombing.  I have screenshots of their corp hangars showing how pitifully poor they were despite that plex, presumably thanks to ebaying all their ISK.  They sure did have a shitload of scan probes, though.

Yeah, I misread that link I put up about ZS-, my fault.  I only see 2 times it flipped to neutral though :P  I wouldn't take CHAs as evidence of wealth, either, but honestly who knows.

I'm quite glad you're killing CSAAs, because at least one of those has to have a titan, and I stand by my 'death to all titans' ideology, regardless of if they're blue or not.  Remember though that sov3 timers don't reset until enough of your poses are claiming to get a majority, so if BoB knocks down 1-2 in each of those station systems, the progression to sov3 continues. 

[slog]

That's it?  I thought these towers were coming out all day?

[Endie]

That's it?  I thought these towers were coming out all day?

What?

We killed a bunch of Bob towers, including a supercap yard: we took pos superiority in a station system, too.  Finally, at about 5pm, Bob and AAA and the ragtag army of shit alliances who AAA have Xed up to defend managed to save a tower (we finished killing one when AAA were three jumps out) in Euro prime.  Bob are now veeery slowly reinforcing some of our towers (not kiting, more like baiting with part of their dread fleet, not in siege).

I expect that they will eventually go all-out when we (hopefully!) fail to fall into some trap vis-a-vis dreads, and try for some shock and awe, but they could have reinforced a ton of towers by now if they'd dared, since this is absolute prime for them and AAA.  Their problem is that they only got numbers superiority after 4pm: we had a lot of people in gang right after DT.

Still a long way to go, though.  Be interesting to see what happens when Bob bring in the rest of their forces from wherever they are hiding.

Edit: There is another CSAA coming out in a few hours that Bob will have to start burning themselves out if they want to save.  I'll be impressed if they do, though.  And the funny thing is that Bob have told their pets to siege their dreads in QY6, but are not sieging themselves.  Poor, pride-free Barbie.

[slog]

Thanks Endie!

Your updates are so good that we should just make you do updates every 2 hours or sometihng. 

[trevorreznik]

It's pretty hard to keep up to date on pos stuff without GS's pos app.  As far as I can tell, it looks like bob lost 4 poses at J-L 1-1, 9-10, qy6 5-13 and 5-6 6-3 in their post-downtime op.  -A- had an op to come over and help blob in Delve, and once we got setup, nothing happened for about 4 hours besides BoB sieging with dreads and trying to bump ships out of a POS.  Sadly, I don't think joshua cane was fcing the NC/TCF/GS/PL fleet, or else we'd probably have had a fight, but I don't know the numbers involved on the two sides, as there was probably 1500 people within 5 jumps of each other. 

I _think_ that BoB repped up 14 poses during this time, based on what was coming out of reinforced, but really don't know.  I'm going mostly off of GS+PL killboards to see what was killed.   I'm not sure who the 'ragtag shit alliances' are though, do you mean SE/C0ven/SysK, the guys who fought GS to a standstill in Eso (until TCF+UNL came to win it) before this whole war started? 

[Phildo]

Pretty sure he was referring to the loose coalition of Delve pet alliances like Skunk-Works, Blade. and such.  Stain/Sys-K/Coven are pretty OK, although as you know every time the gained any ground in Esoteria Goonswarm threw them right back into NPC space until AAA and ROL began working with them.

[Arthur_Parker]

Endie needs to post an update, it's been interesting following the fight tonight, just from the forums.

[Endie]

I'm not sure who the 'ragtag shit alliances' are though, do you mean SE/C0ven/SysK, the guys who fought GS to a standstill in Eso (until TCF+UNL came to win it) before this whole war started? 

I do not mean Stain.  Nor did they fight us to a standstill.  We came back from Geminate and i have two killboards from two fights when we threw them out (when you were, I think, still in GF so you should know better) and took back our moons that they would take while we were away.  They held nothing in Esoteria at the beginning of this war.  No shame for them, since even with their pets (you forgot that Atlas was with them then) I think that they were still marginally smaller than us, but we beat them in two really impressive fights.  Plus whatever I wasn't there for.

Edit: to clarify, in terms of competence of enemies SE are the best by far.  Followed by Atlas who really fucking keep at it despite always losing to us.  The rest lag varying degrees behind.  Some have a lot of supercaps but I'd be a bit more scared of facing SE with the titans Kenny or AAA have.

Anyway, more important is that Kenny's red pen op ended in us killing some of their towers then raping them.  A huge fight, in which they started with numbers, but have taken a hella pounding.  Don't believe me, look at this pic taken by a suspiciously fast-learning newb: yellow wrecks are dead hostiles, red are their drones:



My own, absolutely personal assessment (having only been there for half of it myself) is that Bob's red pen op was an abject failure.  I think all our towers that they painstakingly reinforced come out in Goon prime.  We destroyed half a dozen of theirs, with another CSAA to come.  I'll take that for a welp day every time.

[Endie]

Pretty sure he was referring to the loose coalition of Delve pet alliances like Skunk-Works, Blade. and such.  Stain/Sys-K/Coven are pretty OK, although as you know every time the gained any ground in Esoteria Goonswarm threw them right back into NPC space until AAA and ROL began working with them.

This is the case.  The GKC are, absolutely without exception, worthless.  If anyone doubts this I will happily quote Kenny's own reviews for each.  Kenny just accepted Brotherhood of Sparta into their alliance.  I mean, really.  They said themselves that they never wanted them (while part of Purple Ohana) in a fleet with them again?!?

[Arthur_Parker]

Apparently some BoB mothership pilot said this in local chat.

Waagaa Ktlehr > We're winning this one, you just don't know it yet.

Oops, bad idea.

[Endie]

Aw fuck, I hate to post a third post in a row, but I'm drinking and we are dissolving them.  We hotdropped Bob, Waaga's mothership down (well done him for shouting "Freedom" as released from being locked into it   Especially in view of his previous (let's be generous and presume) self-aware smack), and now we're killing more of their caps.  Let's see how their weekend goes, now.



I think that about 7 or 8 carriers that tried to save him are dead.

Edit: it was 8 and 2 dreads, apparently.

Double edit: shit check that 2% structure.  Also, Lady Scarlet is following Goons obsessively again:



Final edit: I'm off to bed now but I just screenshotted the 7-10 battlefield, which I'll upload somewhere at some point, but full zoomed out (so showing thousands of kilometres) all the wrecks are still not visible.  It's one reason why the scale of Eve is so awesome.

[trevorreznik]

I'm going to upstage Endie here:
Shrike dead (4th time) in qy6, possibly logged with aggression.

death to all titans

[Phildo]

http://killboard.goonfleet.com/km/304971

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha 

[Fordel]

Please tell me that is real and not just a comedy fakemail?

 

[tmp]

Please tell me that is real and not just a comedy fakemail?

 

I see it also discussed in Scrapheap forum battle reports, these are generally kept factual so seems like the real deal.

off-topic: every time i see fleet battle screenshots from Eve it makes me think of Dwarf Fortress now.

edit: yup, looks dead: http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q155/pbt007/ghostofatitan.jpg

[Fordel]

Oh Happy day 

[Goumindong]

Please tell me that is real and not just a comedy fakemail?

 

I just woke up, the war room is plastered with "shrike dead again". It looks to be pretty real

[Comstar]

11 Carriers
5 CSAA's with MS's or Titans in them.
2 Dreadnoughts
1 Mothership
1 Titan

400+ ships in a battle the enemy outnumbered out BS tonnage at the start 2 to 1 and lost 8-1. There is right now, 8 hours later, a sea of wrecks and drones outside the 6-10 POS in 2-L. 

[Arthur_Parker]

Somebody post the red dot of ships destroyed with the map zoomed out.

[Endie]

11 Carriers
5 CSAA's with MS's or Titans in them.
2 Dreadnoughts
1 Mothership
1 Titan

400+ ships in a battle the enemy outnumbered out BS tonnage at the start 2 to 1 and lost 8-1. There is right now, 8 hours later, a sea of wrecks and drones outside the 6-10 POS in 2-L. 

I think that there were actually a few more capital kills, too.

Still, I can't wait until Molle calls his next red pen op!

[Pezzle]

Wait, 5 CSAA since the start or in the last 24 hours?

[Sir T]

[Sparky]

Man, this is how Eve should be every month.  If CCP weren't retarded they'd take note and remove cynojammers from the game.  It's pretty amazing how it cures Titans/Capitals Online at a stroke and produces daily epic fights.

[Pezzle]

Going to disagree somewhat.  I am glad it is enjoyable (it looks like fun) but 0.0 is broken.  If THAT is the barrier of entry to 0.0 how does a corp or alliance not part of a massive conglomerate stand even a remote chance of success?  The sheer number of cap ships is a serious problem.  Sov warfare is a serious problem.  It does not go away by removing jammers, you just get to see the violence levels those jammers were preventing.  Ah well, not the point of this thread I guess. 

SMASHY SMASHY!

[Murgos]

Man, this is how Eve should be every month.  If CCP weren't retarded they'd take note and remove cynojammers from the game.  It's pretty amazing how it cures Titans/Capitals Online at a stroke and produces daily epic fights.

It's only really producing all this action because Delve is valuable and everyone wants to jump on Kenny.  There is lots of 0.0 just sitting there empty, unjammed and uncared for with NOTHING happening ever.

Currently though, no one is able to mine or rat or otherwise make steady ISK.  Without the cynojammers locking at least some portion of the area down to a minimum of noise everyone is going to run out of monies REAL SOON NOW.

[IainC]

Going to disagree somewhat.  I am glad it is enjoyable (it looks like fun) but 0.0 is broken.  If THAT is the barrier of entry to 0.0 how does a corp or alliance not part of a massive conglomerate stand even a remote chance of success?

They don't. We (Bionic Dawn) were in that situation when we were in Vale. We had a station system and sov in a decent spread of constellations under the general TRI umbrella but when TRI left we were left hanging in the wind. Within a week or so we had to evacuate because our enemies (MM, RZR and others) could simply outblob us and were dropping fleets at the heart of our space that we couldn't hope to match numerically. We had caps but we weren't going to commit them to suicide defence ops.

So even with cynojammers, a small alliance cannot stand up without a major blue patron to shelter behind.

[Sparky]

If THAT is the barrier of entry to 0.0 how does a corp or alliance not part of a massive conglomerate stand even a remote chance of success? 

Can't be kicked out of NPC 0.0 stations.

It's only really producing all this action because Delve is valuable and everyone wants to jump on Kenny.  There is lots of 0.0 just sitting there empty, unjammed and uncared for with NOTHING happening ever.

Well yes, but if it was cynojammed we'd have a multi-DD capspam shitfest of a war rather than all this subcap fun.  A lack of cynojammers doesn't make the fun, only facilitate it.

[Goumindong]

Cynojammers are good because they make fighting war require actual strategic thought rather than "set destination to next station system, siege". Large entities are still going to shit on small ones and small ones still going to flail uselessly against big ones.

[Sparky]

Well IMO the added strategic layer isn't worth the shitter gameplay for boots on the ground.  Eve can already feel like only alliance bigwigs get all the metagaming fun and grunts are left with forum whoring table scraps.

edit: love that new "every ship counts" poster.

[amiable]

Well IMO the added strategic layer isn't worth the shitter gameplay for boots on the ground.  Eve can already feel like only alliance bigwigs get all the metagaming fun and grunts are left with forum whoring table scraps.

edit: love that new "every ship counts" poster.

It's still fun to speculate.  For example:  I imagine after yesterdays performance and Kenny's general hatred of their own pets ther may be quite a few discussions taking place that begin:  "If you agree to help us there may be a place for you in the new order..."  You can already see some of that from groups like skunkworks on the official forum.

[trevorreznik]

11 Carriers
5 CSAA's with MS's or Titans in them.
2 Dreadnoughts
1 Mothership
1 Titan

What's kind of amusing is the lack of kills due to people not fielding caps.  -A-'s managed to gank 14 gs/tcf carriers and 4 dreads on their way to delve (one dread, gilbert macelroy, self destructed so no km), but that's solely a product of how much traffic there is compared to how little BoB's using caps over in Delve.

I actually thought BoB would have a good shot at this weekend-they'd repped up a dozen towers and reinforced a dozen more (I have no idea on full numbers), and those were coming out at 0100 ish which is very doable on a weekend for a euro alliance.  But after all this repping/reinforcing, they then proceeded to suicide a MS and Titan for no real purpose.  At this point their best hope is that GS does what they did after last year's QY6-thinking that the war is over and stop logging in.   BoB was able to win euro TZ pretty handily in DG-, it's amazing at how much they're struggling in Delve.

Cynojammers don't 'cure' titans, what we're seeing is that people are almost never using them in the open right now, because being an idiot with them=death.  They still need their DD removed to be fixed.  Jammers + consov have made it so that no competent alliance can lose their space, if you think that's good because you like to see 0.0 space stagnate, well ok then.

[slog]

I actually thought BoB would have a good shot at this weekend-they'd repped up a dozen towers and reinforced a dozen more (I have no idea on full numbers), and those were coming out at 0100 ish which is very doable on a weekend for a euro alliance.  But after all this repping/reinforcing, they then proceeded to suicide a MS and Titan for no real purpose.  At this point their best hope is that GS does what they did after last year's QY6-thinking that the war is over and stop logging in.   BoB was able to win euro TZ pretty handily in DG-, it's amazing at how much they're struggling in Delve.

I must have heard some variation of "Last time we screwed up when we let up.  Do NOT let this happen again" at least 3 times last night.   

[Sparky]

They still need their DD removed to be fixed.

Ideally they'd remove DD.  But I'm not holding my breath as CCP are curiously tin eared about that issue.  Anyway I'll stop posting bollocks now and let this thread get back to war reports.

[Predator Irl]

IMO if you removed this cyno crap and sov levels, you would see a lot more alliances "having a go". They may or may not get slapped down, but at least it would open things up a bit. This current powerbloc controlling 0.0 is just rediculous. Most of 0.0 systems are completely empty and no small alliance will even try to attack one of the major alliances because they haven't a hope of breaking sov.

I don't know what the solution, but 0.0 space needs to be harder to defend!

[xorx]

I don't know what the solution is, but the requirement is:

Holding a little space should be very easy
Holding a bit more (proportional to population) space should be harder
Holding a lot of space should be exponentially harder.

Currently it's linearly harder to hold lots of space and it needs to happen (modulo some variance in #moons in high-end systems), otherwise it's disproportionately difficult to hold a little space.