Resubbed - damn it's well done

[DraconianOne]

So while we're discussing this, something vaguely relevant. Being the slow leveller that I am, I only got around to finishing Dragonblight and associated story quests last night (just after dinging 77).  The cinematic was excellent and the following quest was alright in a "I just need to stand here and watch, don't I?" way but what I want to know is this:

[WindupAtheist]

I think Jaina is a traitorous Horde-loving cunt who should be executed.

[Tannhauser]

Jaina is the only Alliance scum with any sense.

[Merusk]

Jaina's always seen the bigger picture. It's the reason she stood against her father with Thrall in WC3.

[Sjofn]

Given I think King Douchebag is a douchebag's douchebag, I was totally all "right on, Jaina." It's partly because right now is really just not the time to slap fight with the Horde, what with the Scourge gearing up to kick all our asses and such. There will be time to kill people different than us after we kill the undead that are different than us AND want to eat our brains.

[Rendakor]

How does the alliance side of that event play out? I've only done it on horde.

[Merusk]

How does the alliance side of that event play out? I've only done it on horde.

Wrinn sees it as an opportunity to reclaim Lorderon, so you attack the Undercity from that HUGE FUCKING HOLE in the defenses that is the sewers. (seriously, why is this entrance there?)  After killing the alchemist, Wrinn hears Thrall and you run after him, start to fight and Jaina freezes everyone and ports you back to Stormwind.  You'd expect him to have a hissy and order her killed or something, but nope. He just kind of shrugs and says "We'll get you next time, Gadget. Next time!"

[bhodi]

I think it's because in the WoW universe it becomes pretty much impossible for strong people to kill each other. They are like pre-BC paladins in terms of attack/defense - 30 billion HP and attacks that do 5k. As such, they just have to learn to live with each other.

[Fordel]

Jania is shagging Thrall, I'm waiting for the mysterious green baby to pop out.

[Delmania]

Jania is shagging Thrall, I'm waiting for the mysterious green baby to pop out.

I sense a disturbance in the Force, as if the cry of millions of fanfic writers was suddenly silenced.

[Rendakor]

How does the alliance side of that event play out? I've only done it on horde.

Wrinn sees it as an opportunity to reclaim Lorderon, so you attack the Undercity from that HUGE FUCKING HOLE in the defenses that is the sewers. (seriously, why is this entrance there?)  After killing the alchemist, Wrinn hears Thrall and you run after him, start to fight and Jaina freezes everyone and ports you back to Stormwind.  You'd expect him to have a hissy and order her killed or something, but nope. He just kind of shrugs and says "We'll get you next time, Gadget. Next time!"

Ahh, thanks.

[Tannhauser]

Jania is shagging Thrall, I'm waiting for the mysterious green baby to pop out.

Yeah that's the impression I'm getting too.

Jaina: Oh Thrall, I love you so much!
Thrall:  Yeah, that's great.  Hey how about you summon me a sammich?

[WindupAtheist]

If we really want to be RP about it, the Lich King is a big pussy. He finally managed to get his undead plague everywhere, absolutely everywhere, in Stormwind, in Orgrimmar, and everywhere in between, and launched a massive invasion of everyone to capitalize on this. Net result: The plague purged, his invasion beaten back, he himself personally humbled by Tirion, his death knights gone rogue, a successful counterinvasion of Northrend by pretty much everyone, and hostile forces camped on the outskirts of Icecrown itself.

What's more, fuck the Horde. Thrall should be pulling a fucking plow somewhere, and if that smarmy cunt Jaina doesn't like it then off with her head. 

[Simond]

Speaking of big pussies, what's the odds on either King Beef McHardSlab or Garosh "I learnt all the wrong lessons from daddy" Hellscream eventually ending up as a bad guy in Icecrown, I wonder? (Also Thrall could totally smack King Punch Rockgroin down  ).

Look, if the evil warlord just went and killed the hero before he got stronger, he wouldn't be EVIL, duh.

Plus most of the time* when he shows up, he smirks and mutters something about "Give in to your anger, my young...apprentice" then wanders off again.

*Getting blindsided at the Wrathgate by the Apothecaries being a notable exception.

[Fordel]

King GenericRage isn't going anywhere for a long time sadly. He was specifically created to make the alliance seem more 'bad ass' to the 12 year old boys or whatever.


Garosh exists to appease the War1-2 Horde fans. For the horde etc!

[Delmania]

If we really want to be RP about it, the Lich King is a big pussy. He finally managed to get his undead plague everywhere, absolutely everywhere, in Stormwind, in Orgrimmar, and everywhere in between, and launched a massive invasion of everyone to capitalize on this. Net result: The plague purged, his invasion beaten back, he himself personally humbled by Tirion, his death knights gone rogue, a successful counterinvasion of Northrend by pretty much everyone, and hostile forces camped on the outskirts of Icecrown itself.

What's more, fuck the Horde. Thrall should be pulling a fucking plow somewhere, and if that smarmy cunt Jaina doesn't like it then off with her head. 

I see Blizzard conscientious decision to preserve the integrity of established lore shines through in WoTLK.  I mean, I am not sure how people who get their power from the Lich King can revolt and keep their power, or how someone is literally a demigod along the lines of C'thun can be defeated by any players or factions.  Damn thos paladins and wind chimes from space!

[Fordel]

I've seen a Space Chime one shot a Fel Reaver, they are not to be trifled with!

[Delmania]

I've seen a Space Chime one shot a Fel Reaver, they are not to be trifled with!

twinkle, twinkle   *splat*

[WindupAtheist]

King GenericRage isn't going anywhere for a long time sadly. He was specifically created to make the alliance seem more 'bad ass' to the 12 year old boys or whatever.

Garosh exists to appease the War1-2 Horde fans. For the horde etc!

More like they realized that all that Alliance/Horde cooperation stuff was boring stupid bullshit, and especially pointless when we're still mass murdering each other in battlegrounds every night anyway. Frankly I'm tired of the filthy Horde and their competing superiority and persecution complexes. I'll give them persecution. I'm right there next to King Anime Hair, shoving you green-skinned sons of bitches into the ovens at Orcschwitz.

[Fordel]

I love that none of us actually know what the hell King FuriousChin's actual name is.

[Lakov_Sanite]

King GenericRage isn't going anywhere for a long time sadly. He was specifically created to make the alliance seem more 'bad ass' to the 12 year old boys or whatever.

Garosh exists to appease the War1-2 Horde fans. For the horde etc!

More like they realized that all that Alliance/Horde cooperation stuff was boring stupid bullshit, and especially pointless when we're still mass murdering each other in battlegrounds every night anyway. Frankly I'm tired of the filthy Horde and their competing superiority and persecution complexes. I'll give them persecution. I'm right there next to King Anime Hair, shoving you green-skinned sons of bitches into the ovens at Orcschwitz.

Our leader is hitting jaina proudmoore and has queen gothy belf on the side...or maybe at the same time. Your king looks like a dbz reject and has been in prison for the past few years dropping the soap regularly.

[Merusk]

I love that none of us actually know what the hell King FuriousChin's actual name is.

Particularly when I mentioned it at the top of this very same page!  (Tho I misspelled it... it's King Wrynn) 

Bolvar was much more badass.

I see Blizzard conscientious decision to preserve the integrity of established lore shines through in WoTLK.  I mean, I am not sure how people who get their power from the Lich King can revolt and keep their power, or how someone is literally a demigod along the lines of C'thun can be defeated by any players or factions.  Damn thos paladins and wind chimes from space!

Yeah, the Death Knights still being able to access their powers bothers me because it's not explained well.  It supposedly comes from their runeblades.. you know, those weapons you regularly replace. 

The killer part about it looking like Arthas is just going to turn into the final raid encounter is this: When Lk was first announced they specifically said he was NOT going to be the final encounter.  The line at the time was that he's much too powerful for any raid group of any raid size to take him down.  Yeah.

His set-back at Light's Hope is purely based on 3 things.  1) Tirion is one of the true champions of the Light and founder of the Silver Hand - the original order of Paladins.  He's "a badass."   2) Light's Hope is some huge sacred place/ holy ground.  There's speculation as to some ancient artifact of the Light being buried under it, but no confirmation anywhere in the lore.   3) He had The Ashbringer, which had somehow been redeemed during the fight with Morgraine and the Death Knights. 

[Fordel]

The killer part about it looking like Arthas is just going to turn into the final raid encounter is this: When Lk was first announced they specifically said he was NOT going to be the final encounter.  The line at the time was that he's much too powerful for any raid group of any raid size to take him down.  Yeah.

Where did you read this?

[Merusk]

Was nearly 18 months ago now, when LK was first announced.   It was a blue post IIRC.   Of course at that time they also said DKs would intentionally be more powerful than standard classes. It was also said that to have a DK players would have to hit 80, do a series of quests and then give-up that character by having them 'fall' to the Scourge.  So yeah, things change.

[WindupAtheist]

Our leader is hitting jaina proudmoore and has queen gothy belf on the side...or maybe at the same time. Your king looks like a dbz reject and has been in prison for the past few years dropping the soap regularly.

This is the same highly-effective Warchief who got punked in single combat by one of his underlings, then followed that up by being so inept as to allow one of the capital cities of his coalition to be seized in a coup, while rogue Horde military units took to the field to launch biological warfare attacks against Scourge, Alliance, and Horde forces alike, throwing the entire political situation straight into the shitter, right? That's who you're talking about, isn't it?

Then the dumb bastard comes out and basically says "So yeah, guess what? We kinda let a demon from hell (or whatever) be second in command of one of our capital cities. The one where we've been turning a blind eye for years to the Forsaken using human guinea pigs to develop biological weapons, yeah that's the one. Well anyway, shockingly, this all turned out to be something less than a great idea and a bunch of your best guys all died horrible melty deaths. Woops. Our bad. Hey, some of our guys died too. So we expect you to just sit back and take it, because we're totally going to handle this ourselves. Really, you can trust us. We know what we're doing." Yeah, how could a stance like THAT not go over well?

But hey, it's all cool because he found a human female degenerate enough to touch his peen. And when he can't get that, he fucks a dead woman. Way to go Thrall.

 

[Azaroth]

Was nearly 18 months ago now, when LK was first announced.   It was a blue post IIRC.   Of course at that time they also said DKs would intentionally be more powerful than standard classes. It was also said that to have a DK players would have to hit 80, do a series of quests and then give-up that character by having them 'fall' to the Scourge.  So yeah, things change.

DKs would intentionally be more powerful than standard classes

Well, except that part.

[Fabricated]

Our leader is hitting jaina proudmoore and has queen gothy belf on the side...or maybe at the same time. Your king looks like a dbz reject and has been in prison for the past few years dropping the soap regularly.

This is the same highly-effective Warchief who got punked in single combat by one of his underlings, then followed that up by being so inept as to allow one of the capital cities of his coalition to be seized in a coup, while rogue Horde military units took to the field to launch biological warfare attacks against Scourge, Alliance, and Horde forces alike, throwing the entire political situation straight into the shitter, right? That's who you're talking about, isn't it?

Then the dumb bastard comes out and basically says "So yeah, guess what? We kinda let a demon from hell (or whatever) be second in command of one of our capital cities. The one where we've been turning a blind eye for years to the Forsaken using human guinea pigs to develop biological weapons, yeah that's the one. Well anyway, shockingly, this all turned out to be something less than a great idea and a bunch of your best guys all died horrible melty deaths. Woops. Our bad. Hey, some of our guys died too. So we expect you to just sit back and take it, because we're totally going to handle this ourselves. Really, you can trust us. We know what we're doing." Yeah, how could a stance like THAT not go over well?

But hey, it's all cool because he found a human female degenerate enough to touch his peen. And when he can't get that, he fucks a dead woman. Way to go Thrall.

 

That's sort of why I thought the Wrath Gate questline series and the subsequent horde/alliance scuffling was actually pretty well done compared to a lot of the ham-fisted/super generic writing done earlier. Blizzard did a pretty good job in Wrath of giving the impression that Lich King is playing everyone for idiots and largely expecting you (the player) and both factions to eventually end up becoming corruptible. Shit, he spares or ignores you like a dozen times over the various questlines just because he "knows" in the end you're going to be working for him. He knew his invasion was going to fail since I think the main boss NPC of it beckons you to Northrend after he dies.

Again, the only thing I would change is adding a lot more morally "grey" questlines, rather than having you be a gullible douche who helps the badguy of every zone because you don't ever bother to ask WHY they want the chalice of power from the dungeon of foozits. Drak'Tharon sort of gives the impression that you're killing the wrong people until you get reasonably far into Zul'Drak and find that that the Drakkari are pretty much dicks and slaughtering them isn't too much of a grey area.

[Delmania]

Then the dumb bastard comes out and basically says "So yeah, guess what? We kinda let a demon from hell (or whatever) be second in command of one of our capital cities. The one where we've been turning a blind eye for years to the Forsaken using human guinea pigs to develop biological weapons, yeah that's the one. Well anyway, shockingly, this all turned out to be something less than a great idea and a bunch of your best guys all died horrible melty deaths. Woops. Our bad. Hey, some of our guys died too. So we expect you to just sit back and take it, because we're totally going to handle this ourselves. Really, you can trust us. We know what we're doing." Yeah, how could a stance like THAT not go over well?

It's really sad how the Forsaken, in general, are mishandled.  It's arguably the only truly evil player faction in the game, and the whole "we're making a new plague to use on the undead, but we're testing on humans and taurens" concept was interesting, because it reinforced the whole alliance of convenience setting that's laid out in the introduction.   It seems as through Sylvanas has developed some sense of loyalty towards the Horde.  Really, the entire game would be much more realistic if the Alliance actively sought to destroy the Forsaken while the Horde struggles to keep them in line.

[DraconianOne]

It's really sad how the Forsaken, in general, are mishandled.  It's arguably the only truly evil player faction in the game, and the whole "we're making a new plague to use on the undead, but we're testing on humans and taurens" concept was interesting, because it reinforced the whole alliance of convenience setting that's laid out in the introduction.   It seems as through Sylvanas has developed some sense of loyalty towards the Horde.  Really, the entire game would be much more realistic if the Alliance actively sought to destroy the Forsaken while the Horde struggles to keep them in line.

I was always surprised that a lot of the New Plague quests could be done by other races when they should have been Forsaken only. There was never any attempt to disguise what they were doing either.  Apparently the background (in WC3 perhaps - never played it) said that they always claimed that they were trying to find a cure and, at worst case, were developing a plague that would affect Scourge and humans only. But it was never really made clear.

Then again, the Wrathgate was the first time that the Blight was used against the Horde iirc. Although you did mention that they tested the new plauge on Taurens - when/where was this? I only recall humans and dwarves.

[Delmania]

If you go through the Undercity, there is a tauren NPC in the Apothecary. There's also a quest related to finding a cure for her.

[DraconianOne]

Right. Thersa Windsong Not a victim of the Apothecaries plague it turns out.

[Sheepherder]

It's really sad how the Forsaken, in general, are mishandled.  It's arguably the only truly evil player faction in the game, and the whole "we're making a new plague to use on the undead, but we're testing on humans and taurens" concept was interesting, because it reinforced the whole alliance of convenience setting that's laid out in the introduction.   It seems as through Sylvanas has developed some sense of loyalty towards the Horde.  Really, the entire game would be much more realistic if the Alliance actively sought to destroy the Forsaken while the Horde struggles to keep them in line.

The Forsaken aren't supposed to be evil.  They're supposed to inhabit the moral grey area wherein Shakespeare's Shylock resides.

SALERIO:  Why, I am sure, if he forfeit, thou wilt not take his (pound of) flesh. What's that good for?

SHYLOCK:  To bait fish withal. If it will feed nothing else, it will feed my revenge. He hath disgrac'd me and hind'red me half a million; laugh'd at my losses, mock'd at my gains, scorned my nation, thwarted my bargains, cooled my friends, heated mine enemies. And what's his reason? I am a Jew. Hath not a Jew eyes?  Hath not a Jew hands, organs, dimensions, senses, affections, passions, fed with the same food, hurt with the same weapons, subject to the same diseases, healed by the same means, warmed and cooled by the same winter and summer, as a Christian is?  If you prick us, do we not bleed? If you tickle us, do we not laugh?  If you poison us, do we not die? And if you wrong us, shall we not revenge? If we are like you in the rest, we will resemble you in that. If a Jew wrong a Christian, what is his humility?  Revenge. If a Christian wrong a Jew, what should his sufferance be by Christian example? Why, revenge. The villainy you teach me I will execute; and it shall go hard but I will better the instruction.

Also, why is our king a pirate?

[Nevermore]

Also, why is our king a pirate?

Because they thought about making him a ninja, but that would have been silly.

[Hindenburg]

They're supposed to inhabit the moral grey area wherein Shakespeare's Shylock resides.

Shylock's as morally white as they come.

[Simond]

Our leader is hitting jaina proudmoore and has queen gothy belf on the side...or maybe at the same time. Your king looks like a dbz reject and has been in prison for the past few years dropping the soap regularly.

This is the same highly-effective Warchief who got punked in single combat by one of his underlings, then followed that up by being so inept as to allow one of the capital cities of his coalition to be seized in a coup, while rogue Horde military units took to the field to launch biological warfare attacks against Scourge, Alliance, and Horde forces alike, throwing the entire political situation straight into the shitter, right? That's who you're talking about, isn't it?

Then the dumb bastard comes out and basically says "So yeah, guess what? We kinda let a demon from hell (or whatever) be second in command of one of our capital cities. The one where we've been turning a blind eye for years to the Forsaken using human guinea pigs to develop biological weapons, yeah that's the one. Well anyway, shockingly, this all turned out to be something less than a great idea and a bunch of your best guys all died horrible melty deaths. Woops. Our bad. Hey, some of our guys died too. So we expect you to just sit back and take it, because we're totally going to handle this ourselves. Really, you can trust us. We know what we're doing." Yeah, how could a stance like THAT not go over well?

But hey, it's all cool because he found a human female degenerate enough to touch his peen. And when he can't get that, he fucks a dead woman. Way to go Thrall.

 

Look, it's not our fault you're working for Team Evil and King Wolverine McTestosterone-Poisoning. Thrall has repeatedly made the Horde work to help the Alliance, offered treaties even after his de-facto sister was beheaded in front of him by a ranking Alliance leader, and generally done everything possible to make peace with the Alliance because he's smart enough to remember back half a dozen years or so to when everyone had to work together to save the entire planet from demonic invasion.

It's not the Horde's fault that King Manmuscle O'Fuckhead is so much of a wimp that a couple of weeks in the arena broke his tenuous grasp on sanity and none of the other Alliance leaders seem to be willing to stand up to the sweaty imbecile. Seriously though, at the very least Velen should be telling him to sit down and shut the fuck up when the grown-ups are talking.

(Forsaken bioweapons? Well, maybe if Stormwind wasn't invading the sovereign territory of the Forsaken/Lordaeron, then the Apothecaries wouldn't need to get involved...  )