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[Stormwaltz]

It was....just a shooter.

With voiceover!

[Simond]

It was....just a shooter.

That's really why I didn't like it all that much.

It wasn't even a good shooter.

Is there where I point out that Dead Space was originally going to be System Shock 3?

[Teleku]

Might explain why I liked Dead Space 1 and 2 way the fuck more than Bioshock (and I was OK with Bioshock, but by the end I was very MEH).

System Shock 1/2 and Deus Ex were about RPG and FPS mixed together, where you have experience points and character building that lets you make a character that can beat the game in several different ways.  That was a hell of a lot of fun.  Bioshock was a FPS with some magical abilities thrown in and great cinematic graphics.  No experience points or character building, which doomed it as a successor from the start.  You beat the game the same way no matter what, which was BANG BANG FIREBALL BANG BANG!

The fact that you could literally sneak past every enemy and talk every boss to death in Deus Ex is so far gone from this generation it physically hurts.

[Yegolev]

Bioshock is everything that is wrong with modern gaming.

Also: BABIES NEED MEAT

[Miasma]

Bioshock was awesome.

[Ironwood]

It really wasn't.


Also, the life chambers that meant you could just hurl yourself at Big Daddies until they died of boredom.  The trick was to make sure you hadn't died of boredom first.

[Ironwood]

Bioshock is everything that is wrong with modern gaming.

Also: BABIES NEED MEAT

You're going to have to face the facts :  We're just tooo old.

[Lucas]

It really wasn't.


Also, the life chambers that meant you could just hurl yourself at Big Daddies until they died of boredom.  The trick was to make sure you hadn't died of boredom first.

Indeed: Bioshock became so boring, so quickly for me :(. Haven't bothered with the second chapter either.

System Shock 1 and 2 are vastly superior games.

[Yegolev]

You're going to have to face the facts :  We're just tooo old.

I suppose so.  I do like easier games now, punishment isn't needed for games today, but am I old for noticing Bioshock was basically a shit shooter with in-engine story scenes?  The resurrection chambers weren't the main issue, if you ask me, and I know you didn't.  Seems like someone has a "great" premise for a game or story, but shortly into development it just devolves into producing a standard template with decorations inspired by the original idea.  So, Bioshock became a shooter because the devs didn't know how to make a Thief or System Shock.  Did they get bogged down in art?  Were there too many meetings and committee decisions?  Executives complaining that the game wasn't mainstream or LCD enough?  Maybe all of those things.  We also know adding "we need this to make money" or "Ken Levine" is apparently poison to a quality product.

I think I shocked someone in standing water once or twice, and only in the early room designed for it.  The rest of it was standard shooting.  To switch games, Cthulu: Dark Corners of the Earth on Xbox started out being scary, then about an hour or three into it, I realized all I am doing now is shooting fish people in a factory.  Shit shooter with fish people instead of Halo-aliens.  Geist is a poster-child for this particular issue, where you play the cool parts in the first 30 minutes of the game, which were already shown at the trade shows, after which you just end up shooting people.  The original premise was apparently so non-standard and the devs so brainwashed that they simply could not think of any more interesting gameplay after the gun models were loaded up.

[luckton]

I think the whole Big Daddy/Little Sister thing kinda broke the game for me.  I loved the whole "Ann Rand prophecy fulfilled, only to end in ruin" thing, but I think they could have created a different way of trying to manifest the various powers and such.

Or here's an idea: DON'T PUT IN SUPERHUMAN POWERS.  Take out the entire plasmids thing, and stick with fleshing out the weapons and environment.  I honestly have no idea how they're getting away with Plasmids in BS: Inifinite, but I honestly don't care.  It's probably going to be just as stupid as sea slugs with stem cells.

[Ironwood]

You're going to have to face the facts :  We're just tooo old.

I suppose so.  I do like easier games now, punishment isn't needed for games today, but am I old for noticing Bioshock was basically a shit shooter with in-engine story scenes?  The resurrection chambers weren't the main issue, if you ask me, and I know you didn't.  Seems like someone has a "great" premise for a game or story, but shortly into development it just devolves into producing a standard template with decorations inspired by the original idea.  So, Bioshock became a shooter because the devs didn't know how to make a Thief or System Shock.  Did they get bogged down in art?  Were there too many meetings and committee decisions?  Executives complaining that the game wasn't mainstream or LCD enough?  Maybe all of those things.  We also know adding "we need this to make money" or "Ken Levine" is apparently poison to a quality product.

I think I shocked someone in standing water once or twice, and only in the early room designed for it.  The rest of it was standard shooting.  To switch games, Cthulu: Dark Corners of the Earth on Xbox started out being scary, then about an hour or three into it, I realized all I am doing now is shooting fish people in a factory.  Shit shooter with fish people instead of Halo-aliens.  Geist is a poster-child for this particular issue, where you play the cool parts in the first 30 minutes of the game, which were already shown at the trade shows, after which you just end up shooting people.  The original premise was apparently so non-standard and the devs so brainwashed that they simply could not think of any more interesting gameplay after the gun models were loaded up.

You do know I agree with all that and that my post was what people are saying about 'Us', right ?

[HaemishM]

You shut your filthy whore mouth about Cthulu: Dark Corners of the Earth or I will cut you.

Even though technically you are right, I still enjoyed the shit out of that game, standard shooter or not.

[Ironwood]

Nothing wrong with enjoying a standard shooter if that's what you want.  I had a blast with Crysis, for example.

But there's something very wrong with someone saying 'the successor to System Shock' only to find out it's a ....standard shooter.

[Rasix]

I'm having a senior moment where I can't remember if I played System Shock 2 before or after Bioshock.  I discovered the game rather late.   System Shock 2 is pretty high on my list of top games, even with its flaws and playing it so long after its release.

I had fun with Bioshock for what it was.  Not what it could have been.  The whole Big Daddy part was horrid, however.  Game was not as fun post Ryan.

It does make me cringe a bit when I hear Madden/Halo gamers or young gamers tout it as the best game ever.

[HaemishM]

I had fun with Bioshock for what it was.  Not what it could have been.  The whole Big Daddy part was horrid, however.  Game was not as fun post Ryan.

This. The post-Ryan portion of the game felt tacked on to make it longer, and didn't make a lot of narrative sense. Being a Big Daddy sucked ass.

[Miasma]

I bought and played System Shock 2 recently and I think you guys are remembering it through rose tinted glasses.  It was 90% shooter, most of the systems involved how well you shot, how you repaired your guns or using different types of guns/psi to shoot with.  It was a good game because of the setting and for bringing in the idea of stats and skills to an fps but it was at heart an fps.

[Zetor]

Vanilla SS2 (without modifying weapon degradation and respawns) was more like a FPBTUW (Beat Things Up with the Wrench), but yeah.

[Mosesandstick]

Loved Bioshock. Spent most of the game beating things up with a wrench and enjoyed it.

[Ironwood]

I bought and played System Shock 2 recently and I think you guys are remembering it through rose tinted glasses.  It was 90% shooter, most of the systems involved how well you shot, how you repaired your guns or using different types of guns/psi to shoot with.  It was a good game because of the setting and for bringing in the idea of stats and skills to an fps but it was at heart an fps.

If I were to accept your premise (which I don't, I reject it utterly) I would say that the 10% is what Bioshock was lacking.


:P

[Fabricated]

Dark Corners of the Earth is cool, but what took me out of it was the bugs. It's hilarious to strafe up to a door, then lean through it and unlock it from the other side.

[Phred]

I think weapon durability really is my only significant complaint

IIRC there was a cfg file setting to up the durability. I remember using it way back when I played SS2.

[Phred]

Started replaying SS1.  God, that game's still good.  STILL GOOD.  Once you get back into how it looks and controls, of course.

Ya I put in the portable version and with all the mods, especially mouse look it is wonderful. I just wish there was a hack to get it wide screen though my monitor's resolution is kind of straining the scaling as it is.

[Phred]

System Shock 1/2 and Deus Ex were about RPG and FPS mixed together, where you have experience points and character building that lets you make a character that can beat the game in several different ways.  That was a hell of a lot of fun.  

Not that I don't agree with you on the fun part but there were no experience points in SS1. Just upgrades you found lying around.

[koro]

Yeah, I've been playing my game of SS2 with weapon durability pretty significantly increased (not quite to the point where I never have to repair, but often enough that I still need to pull out the repair kits), and with enemy respawns toned down a good bit.

It's pretty great.

[HaemishM]

Dark Corners of the Earth is cool, but what took me out of it was the bugs. It's hilarious to strafe up to a door, then lean through it and unlock it from the other side.

I played the XBox version and I don't think I ever ran into any bugs other than 1 or 2 CTD's.

[Sir T]

Dear diary. Today I turned a corner and met a naked woman with no skin and cyborg legs. I actually screamed out loud and then beat her to death with a wrench.  

[Ironwood]

You using the new texture packs for them ?  I honestly thought the guy who did them did a great job, but the original creeped me out more.

[Quinton]

I used the new textures (but not replacement models, etc), because they looked like they were pretty true to the original and converted the computer displays and such from blurry messes to something readable (and less distracting).  I didn't want to go *too* mod-crazy, just trying to not hurt my eyes...

[Sir T]

No I'm using the vanilla I got from GOG with the original textures. Really really creepy. I wasnt lying when I said I yelped when seeing the cyber-midwife as it was right in my face when I turned the corner. I have to say, never having played SS2, that this is a really good, really atmospheric game. The Weapon degrading doesn't bother me at all as it adds to the tension, and isn't really a concern once you have maintenance 3 or 4. There's this feeling of "every bullet is precious1" And whoever thought of the Hybrids screaming "Run" and "Kill me!" when you are fighting them is a genius. MUCH better than Bioshock, which only had the creepy factor in the first level.

[Quinton]

Also those goddamn monkeys...

[Mrbloodworth]

Also those goddamn monkeys...

I really hate me some monkeys.

Yeah, im playing this too. In all honesty, the art in this is fantastically done. For what ( when ) it is.

I really feel the need for more and more photorealism really distracts from games sometimes.

[Quinton]

Also the sound design, story, journal entries, etc.  Just really well crafted top to bottom.

After all, I first *heard* those monkeys before seeing them.

[Teleku]

Its fun, but the rampant respawning is starting to get really annoying.

[Yegolev]

You do know I agree with all that and that my post was what people are saying about 'Us', right ?

I'm commiserating!  Yes, I did.  You just provided the curb for me to puke off of.

I enjoy dumb shit as much as anyone, but I still know it's dumb shit.

Also, thanks to Quinton for unsealing a memory I had repressed regarding psychic monkeys.

[Quinton]

Actually, thankfully, they're only psionic...

However...