Marvel Universe (Thar be spoilers ahead.)

[jgsugden]

I'm betting there is a 'man in a suit' to this Ultron rather than pure CGI.  The comic representation with an unmoving head probably would look pretty dumb on the screen.  I think they'll do something to let Ultron look more human.  Or at least more like Spader.

[Evildrider]

So Stan Lee said in an interview that Black Panther, Doctor Strange, Ant-Man, and the Inhumans look to be the next Marvel projects.

[jgsugden]

The interviews and articles seem to be boiling down to their focus on the Inhumans is their attempt to give them an X-men like property for the screen.  I think the buzz around Guardians of the Galaxy is going to be a big factor in how the Inhumans unfolds...

[SurfD]

Black panther and Doc strange could be really, really awesome if done well.

Especially Doc Strange.  Have we even had a good Adult "magic" hero movie in, like, forever? 

[Ingmar]

If nothing else, it should give us some entertaining rubbernecking as conservative Christians lose their minds over it.

[K9]

Feige confirmed that Ronan the Accuser is the main Big Bad of the Guardians movie, but that he may be working for or with Thanos, and that Thanos is the "big bad behind the scenes" who is seen fairly often in the course of the film.

Given the announcement of Ultron for Avengers 2, I think they may be lining up Thanos for Avengers 3 if the Guardians film does well. If by that point they've also had Doctor Strange, Black Panther and Ant-Man films, I could see 3 being a kind of crazy-ass "everybody against a big bad guy" flick.

I have never heard of any of those characters, just saying. As someone who never read comic books, I really wonder how far Marvel can dive down the well of obscurity before the balance between the instant appeal of the characters and their actual realisation in film form tips towards the point where audiences (particularly international ones) just say 'fuck this'

[Velorath]

Iron Man wasn't an instantly recognizable character prior to his movies either. Hell, the first successful movie based on a Marvel character (although not nearly as successful as the modern stuff) was Blade. As long as they don't go overboard with budgets, don't make shitty movies, and continue to do a good job marketing them, they should be fine.

[K9]

I had actually heard of Iron Man prior to the film, and Iron Man is a somewhat relatable character (relative to all these other characters). I wiki'd some of these characters and the description of Thanos reads like the sort of thing a six year old would write in a fit of sugar-addled excitement.

I'm entirely ready to be proven wrong when Guardians of The Galaxy breaks box office record and such.

[Tannhauser]

I think Spiderman or one of the X-Men will sneak into a Marvel movie.  There are vibrations in the interwebs.

[Velorath]

I had actually heard of Iron Man prior to the film, and Iron Man is a somewhat relatable character (relative to all these other characters). I wiki'd some of these characters and the description of Thanos reads like the sort of thing a six year old would write in a fit of sugar-addled excitement.

I'm entirely ready to be proven wrong when Guardians of The Galaxy breaks box office record and such.

I think Guardians of the Galaxy is the one that will really struggle because it's Sci-Fi which is typically a hard sell, and will also likely have to have a large budget if they want to do it right. And I guess Ant-Man might have problems also because Edgar Wright makes great movies that everybody loves, but nobody goes to see in theaters.

[Ironwood]

He also makes shite, like Scott Pilgrim.  I'm really, really not going to put GotG up or down due to him.

I do, however, agree that it seems to be a much harder sell.  The actual idea itself doesn't interest me terribly much and I really have no clue how you tie it back to everything that's come before.

[Merusk]

I had actually heard of Iron Man prior to the film, and Iron Man is a somewhat relatable character (relative to all these other characters). I wiki'd some of these characters and the description of Thanos reads like the sort of thing a six year old would write in a fit of sugar-addled excitement.

I'm entirely ready to be proven wrong when Guardians of The Galaxy breaks box office record and such.

You're not alone in this.  I had this discussion already in whichever thread we started discussing Gog a year or two ago and I'm in the exact same position & mindset as you re: comics.

I know I'm old and out of touch, but all I've seen is people laughing at the ludicriousness of the raccoon firing guns .gif.  When I tell them it's from a movie coming out I get an incredulous, "wait, really?"  Which isn't going to be good if it's taking itself seriously.

[HaemishM]

He also makes shite, like Scott Pilgrim.  I'm really, really not going to put GotG up or down due to him.

Guardians of the Galaxy is being done by James Gunn, who has a history of making quirky, crazy shit into entertaining movies. FFS, he made a movie about space slugs attacking a small town entertaining.

[Ironwood]

That could be any number of films ;  narrow it down ?

[HaemishM]

He did Slither (the aforementioned space slug movie) and Super, both of which were a bit black comedy. He also did the series of web videos PG-Porn that were pretty funny. You can bet Guardians of the Galaxy will not take itself too seriously.

[Ironwood]

Was Slither the one with Castle ?

[HaemishM]

Yes, that's the one.

[Ironwood]

Okay doke.

(Oh and I realise now I'd written Guardians rather than Ant Man.  Not sure about either of them, to be honest...)

[HaemishM]

I think Ant Man will be fun, but it won't be a hit. The character is just too wacky to be that big a hit. He's a February success, not a summer blockbuster.

[K9]

I had actually heard of Iron Man prior to the film, and Iron Man is a somewhat relatable character (relative to all these other characters). I wiki'd some of these characters and the description of Thanos reads like the sort of thing a six year old would write in a fit of sugar-addled excitement.

I'm entirely ready to be proven wrong when Guardians of The Galaxy breaks box office record and such.

You're not alone in this.  I had this discussion already in whichever thread we started discussing Gog a year or two ago and I'm in the exact same position & mindset as you re: comics.

I know I'm old and out of touch, but all I've seen is people laughing at the ludicriousness of the raccoon firing guns .gif.  When I tell them it's from a movie coming out I get an incredulous, "wait, really?"  Which isn't going to be good if it's taking itself seriously.

Do you have a link to that image?

[Merusk]

http://wifflegif.com/tags/161876-rocket-raccoon-gifs

[K9]

 

[jgsugden]

Out of context, all comic ideas are moronic and seem destined to fail.  Man turns into giant green rage monster?  Alien can see through walls and move faster than light?  Man dresses up like bat to intimidate criminals?  Hot woman dresses up in skimpy outfit and ... no, that one always has an audience.  They're all crazy shit.  However, like everything in the comics/sci-fi universe, there are angles to these ideas that work and angles that suck.  Example: [Star Wars teddy bear that works: Wookie.  Star wars teddy bear that sucks: Ewok.]

When I talk about whether GotG, Doc Strange, and Inhumans could work on film, I remind people to look at Thor.  Thor in the comics and Thor in the movies are substantially the same character in many ways, but are different in key ways that make him more relatable to a movie audience.  Many of those changes are expansions of updates that have been worked into the comics over time.  They'll make the changes they need to make to get these new characters to work on film.

The Destroyer featured in Thor was a creation of the same drug addled 60s and 70s minds that invented Thanos, Ronan, Rocket Raccoon and Doctor Strange.  However, it has also been featured in comics for decades and has been updated over time to stay appealing to a modern comic audience - just like the rest of the characters.  The Destroyer worked in Thor.  It may not have been a perfect execution of the concept, but it worked.  I have faith that the team working on these other films will also make them work.

And, don't underestimate the benefit of having SHIELD (and potentially other shows) on TV to lay groundwork for these odd-ball ideas.  Even if people seeing these films do not watch the Marvel shows, the Marvel shows will be big enough to impact mainstream culture and lay groundwork.

[Merusk]

You sound like every Hollywood exec right before a genre crash.

Thor was little-known but not unknown. That movie also had the advantage of word being out that this was one of a trilogy of movies to introduce The Avengers.  Even given that advantage, it still did barely more than its budget domestically.

Blade was a better example of an unknown character. (Who was released among the trend of Vampire movies in the late 90's vs. superheros of the 00's.)  It remains to be seen if he was also a better example of the budget they should be pushing on GoG.

[Ironwood]

Thor succeeded precisely because they cut all that shit out.  They basically gave us Alien Shakespeare with a hot fucking lead for the women and fight scenes for the guys.

There was a bare Minimum of comic retardery in that film.  Hell, Captain America had a lot more.

[HaemishM]

When I heard they were making a Thor movie, I thought for sure it was going to be terribly both narratively and financially. I was wrong on both counts. It was executed well and made money. I'm willing to give Marvel films the benefit of the doubt on making off-the-wall concepts work on screen.

[K9]

The Destroyer featured in Thor was a creation of the same drug addled 60s and 70s minds that invented Thanos, Ronan, Rocket Raccoon and Doctor Strange.  However, it has also been featured in comics for decades and has been updated over time to stay appealing to a modern comic audience - just like the rest of the characters.  The Destroyer worked in Thor.  It may not have been a perfect execution of the concept, but it worked.  I have faith that the team working on these other films will also make them work.

Honestly, I found very little in Thor that I could relate to; the main reason I enjoyed the film is because Chris Hemsworth is fun to watch romping around*. Hell, Captain Vanilla should be on a par with Iron Man in the relatability stakes (he is human after all), but the film was full of comic nonsense and moustache twirling and suffered greatly for it.

I think there's fantastical ideas, like aliens fighting their family feud on earth, that can work. It's not the most novel plot concept, but it's something that's easy enough to accept and run with, it's a familiar idea. Then there are fantastical ideas that are pure comic-book homage with none of the inanity sucked out, such as evil demon laser-wielding nazi things hiding in the forest (seriously, what the fuck was the plot in that film other than "Demon-nazis bad!"). While there are familiar ideas in there: nazis are bad, demons are bad, lasers are cool, oh shit there's a plane with bombs on headed for the US that we have to stop! It was all thrown in with no apparent sense other than the fact that it was all connected via some comic written decades before I was even born.

This is what I feel when I look at the premise for GotG:

In the far reaches of space, an unlikely cast of characters including an American pilot and a group of futuristic ex-cons go on the run with a highly coveted object and must join forces to defeat a cosmic force of epic proportions

I look at the list of characters, I have never heard of them. There could be a really fun sci-fi story in there, but my suspicion is that the authors will be so horribly constrained by the existing IP that the story will end up being an incoherent mess of canonincal wank that marks the tail-end of most comic book series as far as I can see. If the IP were better known then riding on the cooattails and absorbing the baggae can work, but I literally have no clue who any of these people are, and names like Drax the Destroyer don't fill me with confidence, neither does a genetically engineered raccoon...

*also Natalie Portman...

Star wars teddy bear that sucks: Ewok.

Fuck off, Ewoks are 

[Merusk]

And now we're back to the exact point we were the last time the conversation was had.  Skeptics who have no idea wtf the property is and comics true believers who have faith in Marvel.

So we're back to the 'guess we wait and see' state.  Ah well, it was a good half-days conversation.

[K9]

Yeah, but at least this time I got to see a baffling Raccoon gif.

[sickrubik]

I'm not sure why people hate the Racoon gif. I think it looks great.

[K9]

I'm sure I'd love it as a Funny or Die clip; as a film I have to pay £15 to see I'm less enthused 

[Khaldun]

I would love to see what you think is worth that price and how closely you hold to that. Cause if a raccoon with a gun is enough to hold you off, I would think that the vast majority of modern popular entertainment would leave money in your pocket as well.

[Evildrider]

So looks like there is an Agent Carter TV show in the works now.  Marvel is pretty busy.

[jgsugden]

So looks like there is an Agent Carter TV show in the works now.  Marvel is pretty busy.

I'm not so sure on this rumor - the equivalent tales have flown around for Jessica Jones, as well as some rumors for Heroes for Hire, Daredevil and a few other properties.  I am betting there will be a second Marvel Universe series, but I don't think Agent Carter is an appreciable front runner to be the Wonderland to SHIELD's Once Upon a Time.  Heck, I'm betting they have 6 to 10 series at similar levels of development. 

Of course, if they follow the original idea for Wonderland as a limited run counterpoint for Once Upon a Time, Agent Carter would make a lot of sense - Agent Carter during the days SHIELD gets off the ground in an 8 episode miniseries would make a lot of sense as a way to bridge the summer gap between Season 1 and 2 of SHIELD.  An approach like that - 8 to 10 episode stand alone tales in the MCU focusing on secondary film characters (War Machine, Loki, Thunderbolt Ross, Warriors Three, Nova, etc...) or other 2nd and 3rd tier characters (Heroes for Hire, Jessica Jones, Punisher, Blade, Runaways, Power Pack, etc...) makes a lot of sense.  You could get A list talent to commit to those roles if they know it is limited and that there might be movies to come. 

[Velorath]

I'm sure they've constantly got a lot of stuff in "early development". That phrase is so vague it could just mean that they have one guy scribbling ideas down in a notebook.