First Impressions

[Severian]

So is it for sure that the pvp armor is fixed and the only upgrades you can get for it is cosmetic? I met someone who was under the impression you can upgrade the pvp armor's stats as well.

You can change the armor and weapon attributes by changing the weapon sigils and the armor runes (in their upgrade slots) at an NPC vendor in the Hall of Memories near the PVP banks. Likewise with rings, amulets etc. The point being to specialize in, for example, a Precision build.

The vanity items you buy with glory, and are cosmetic.

[Furiously]

I love that every class can cast on the move.

[Maledict]

I love that every class can cast on the move.

That really freaks me out. Unlike other games there seems to be no penalty for it - it's just something you should be doing, always.

Goes a long way to explain why caster classes fall over dead in melee combat - they just aren't supposed to be there at all!

[Furiously]

I love that every class can cast on the move.

That really freaks me out. Unlike other games there seems to be no penalty for it - it's just something you should be doing, always.

Goes a long way to explain why caster classes fall over dead in melee combat - they just aren't supposed to be there at all!

Well... you do have to be facing the target somewhat don't you?

[Murgos]

I love that every class can cast on the move.

That really freaks me out. Unlike other games there seems to be no penalty for it - it's just something you should be doing, always.

Goes a long way to explain why caster classes fall over dead in melee combat - they just aren't supposed to be there at all!

Yeah, this aspect will probably make ranged attacks preferable to melee most of the time.

In ranged mode?  If the mob gets close, move.

In melee mode?  Learn how to time attacks and dodges so that you avoid damage.

One of those is harder than the other.

[Falconeer]

I'm under the impression that as a ranged in PvP it won't be that easy to hit whoever you want as even your teammates obscure your line of sight and you get an <obstructed> message if you aim at someone behind your front line. For the same reason why enemies have a hard time hitting you if you have a big bad tank simply standing between their bullet and you. Am I wrong?

[Nevermore]

I love that every class can cast on the move.

There are still a few exceptions to this.  I know the Ranger Longbow AoE couldn't be cast on the move, though the AoE will continue for a bit after the cast is over.

[kildorn]

Some casts root you. Most don't. Mesmer's blurred strike also roots you for the duration.

[Mrbloodworth]

So, how are the quests? anyone got a quick rundown? Is it standard stuff?  Whats the power curve 1-?? Will I be gated from playing with friends because of level?

[Zetor]

There are no 'quests' in the traditional sense except for your personal storyline (which works in personal instanced zones just like TOR, only with worse voiceacting/cutscenes, basically). Most content is 'area quests' in a particular map region where you can do x things to advance the quest bar of that region (heart icon on the map), and you get a reward when it fills up. F'rex you can get credit by collecting stuff, killing certain mobs, reviving NPCs, and sometimes other things (like taking rabbit food to the 'questgiver' while avoiding rabbits). There are also dungeons with normal and 'heroic' modes, and you can level via pvp/wvw.

There are also events that can happen on their own or if someone triggers them (e.g. by using an object in the world), they can also progress to different stages depending on whether you 'win' or 'lose'. Events also give credit for the quest bar of the area (participating one will probably fill the bar on its own), and have some interesting mechanics sometimes (you're preventing enemies from destroying your fortifications or rebuilding their own, escorting a party of NPCs through some caves, etc). Events scale with the number of people present and have the traditional 'contribution' system like in WAR and rift (I think it counts how many actions you did during the event, I have yet to get less than gold in an event I've fully attended).

I'd say the power curve is flat, but it isn't really... you'll unlock a lot more skills as you level (making you more versatile) along with traits, and you won't get an elite skill until level 30 (?). I have no idea how big a difference gear makes, hope we get a BWE where people are boosted to 85 so I can check what 'crappy outleveled gear' does vs 'level 85 crafted gear' and 'phat-loot karma / dropped green gear'.. though in GW1 there was no difference between crappy cheap/free gear and uber gear except for looks, so I'm hopeful. In structured pvp everyone is equalized; in wvw pvp everyone is 'almost' equalized. The game has inherent zone-based sidekicking (if you go to a level 4 area, you'll fight as a level 4), so you can play with lower-level people all you want. It used to work the other way too (lower level chars playing with higher levels in higher level zones), but they scrapped that which is kind of lame... still, this sort of sidekicking is better than most other games.

[tmp]

There are no 'quests' in the traditional sense except for your personal storyline (which works in personal instanced zones just like TOR, only with worse voiceacting/cutscenes, basically). Most content is 'area quests' in a particular map region where you can do x things to advance the quest bar of that region (heart icon on the map), and you get a reward when it fills up. F'rex you can get credit by collecting stuff, killing certain mobs, reviving NPCs, and sometimes other things (like taking rabbit food to the 'questgiver' while avoiding rabbits).

Doesn't that effectively mean it's just like "quests in traditional sense" minus the part where you need to manually click on the NPC in order to be told you should go to spot X and collect stuff, kill certain mobs, revive NPC and sometimes do other things?

[Ingmar]

Is there any narrative framing at all for that stuff?

[Nevermore]

There are no 'quests' in the traditional sense except for your personal storyline (which works in personal instanced zones just like TOR, only with worse voiceacting/cutscenes, basically).

The heart quests to me felt pretty much the same as 'traditional' quests, except they trigger automatically when you enter an area rather than talking to someone and all the ones I did had multiple avenues to get credit for completion.  On the other hand, they felt fairly grindy in that each thing you did to get credit didn't really add that much to the completion bar.

The major difference in GW2 is the whole event thing.  I know most people really liked the events, and I sort of did too, but I prefer being able to trigger them on my own instead of happening upon one by chance or waiting around for one to start.  It also makes going afk a dangerous proposition because you can end up getting flattened in places that seemed perfectly safe.  Events happening because of a 'loss' is a really nice touch, though.

Edit:

Is there any narrative framing at all for that stuff?

Yes, if you go talk to the heart NPC they'll give you a rundown on why you're doing what you're doing.  But that makes it even more like a 'traditional' quest.

[Zetor]

There are no 'quests' in the traditional sense except for your personal storyline (which works in personal instanced zones just like TOR, only with worse voiceacting/cutscenes, basically). Most content is 'area quests' in a particular map region where you can do x things to advance the quest bar of that region (heart icon on the map), and you get a reward when it fills up. F'rex you can get credit by collecting stuff, killing certain mobs, reviving NPCs, and sometimes other things (like taking rabbit food to the 'questgiver' while avoiding rabbits).

Doesn't that effectively mean it's just like "quests in traditional sense" minus the part where you need to manually click on the NPC in order to be told you should go to spot X and collect stuff, kill certain mobs, revive NPC and sometimes do other things?

Yeah, that's what I meant by traditional sense. You're still killing 10 rats and collecting 20 bear asses, but at least you can choose which of them you're doing and don't need to do the run around / turn in bit. It's an OK compromise, though obviously dynamic events are superior (if one is available, that is)

e: unfucked quote.. you people post fast!

[Ingmar]

Right but what I'm asking is there any story framing for that sort of thing at all, or do you just kind of go out and do things and stuff happens?

EDIT: Ok just saw Nevermore's edit. Got it.

[Mrbloodworth]

There are no 'quests' in the traditional sense except for your personal storyline (which works in personal instanced zones just like TOR, only with worse voiceacting/cutscenes, basically). Most content is 'area quests' in a particular map region where you can do x things to advance the quest bar of that region (heart icon on the map), and you get a reward when it fills up. F'rex you can get credit by collecting stuff, killing certain mobs, reviving NPCs, and sometimes other things (like taking rabbit food to the 'questgiver' while avoiding rabbits). There are also dungeons with normal and 'heroic' modes, and you can level via pvp/wvw.

There are also events that can happen on their own or if someone triggers them (e.g. by using an object in the world), they can also progress to different stages depending on whether you 'win' or 'lose'. Events also give credit for the quest bar of the area (participating one will probably fill the bar on its own), and have some interesting mechanics sometimes (you're preventing enemies from destroying your fortifications or rebuilding their own, escorting a party of NPCs through some caves, etc). Events scale with the number of people present and have the traditional 'contribution' system like in WAR and rift (I think it counts how many actions you did during the event, I have yet to get less than gold in an event I've fully attended).

I'd say the power curve is flat, but it isn't really... you'll unlock a lot more skills as you level (making you more versatile) along with traits, and you won't get an elite skill until level 30 (?). I have no idea how big a difference gear makes, hope we get a BWE where people are boosted to 85 so I can check what 'crappy outleveled gear' does vs 'level 85 crafted gear' and 'phat-loot karma / dropped green gear'.. though in GW1 there was no difference between crappy cheap/free gear and uber gear except for looks, so I'm hopeful. In structured pvp everyone is equalized; in wvw pvp everyone is 'almost' equalized. The game has inherent zone-based sidekicking (if you go to a level 4 area, you'll fight as a level 4), so you can play with lower-level people all you want. It used to work the other way too (lower level chars playing with higher levels in higher level zones), but they scrapped that which is kind of lame... still, this sort of sidekicking is better than most other games.

Wow, ok then, thanks for that. Auto side-kicking a?  Now I'm somewhat interested.

[Nevermore]

Yeah, that's what I meant by traditional sense. You're still killing 10 rats and collecting 20 bear asses, but at least you can choose which of them you're doing and don't need to do the run around / turn in bit. It's an OK compromise, though obviously dynamic events are superior (if one is available, that is)

Some of the events do have turn-ins, though.

[Zetor]

Yea, what Nevermore said. Sorry about the quote fuckup, I didn't see the post-deluge so just clicked insert-quote 2 posts down

Re the issue with dynamic quests making things dangerous - I agree, though most of the ones I've done seem to give at least some warning (similar to the big world events in rift) or they are started directly by players. Also, some of the events have bosses which DO need at least 2 people to do unless you're really good at soloing elite mobs at low levels (it can be done, but... yeah)

Yeah, that's what I meant by traditional sense. You're still killing 10 rats and collecting 20 bear asses, but at least you can choose which of them you're doing and don't need to do the run around / turn in bit. It's an OK compromise, though obviously dynamic events are superior (if one is available, that is)

Some of the events do have turn-ins, though.

edit: I misread your post, and yeah I agree... it's the "collect stuff that drop from enemies / spawn randomly on the ground and take it to this guy standing outside the cave" kind of quests. I typically ignore those entirely, or just turn in a bunch of drops once while I'm leaving the area.

[Nevermore]

Right but what I'm asking is there any story framing for that sort of thing at all, or do you just kind of go out and do things and stuff happens?

EDIT: Ok just saw Nevermore's edit. Got it.

Also, for events it's generally really obvious why you're doing what you're doing so those basically frame themselves.  'Escort Bob the Barbarian to the fort!', 'Kill the 30 foot wasp trying to sting your face off!', 'Collect apples for Mary so she can bake you a pie!', that kind of thing.  By the way, two of those three examples I didn't make up. 

[kildorn]

So far for all the heart quests there were 2-3 ways to gain points (fight this, click that, collect and turn in the other), which was nice.

What I really liked were the branching events though. Stop kobold thieves! Whoops, you fucked up and didn't stop them. So go get the supplies back! Branching the event off a failure is <3

Getting XP/Karma still for completely failing an event was also nice.

[Zetor]

I   the wackiness in some of the zones. I levelled a Charr and a Norn to mid-level in the BWE, and  (really, really minor spoilers about the 1-15 zones)
e: also, expanding on Kildorn's post -- sometimes failboating events can result in a minor quest area being taken over by mobs as well and spawn another event to take the area back (you can still do heart quest stuff, but can't use the waypoint until it's retaken). While this can be annoying, SO FAR it was more fun than bother.

[kildorn]

The retakes aren't that hard so far either, so it won't completely screw new characters over down the line that I can see. But yeah, I had a fort that was taken by centaurs and I had to retake before I could get the waypoint back.

[Tyrnan]

I seem to remember a dev saying that the renown quests (hearts) are really meant to get you into the areas where events will happen and then hopefully keep you there long enough for one to trigger. So they're more like breadcrumbs to dynamic events rather than being content in and of themselves.

[Threash]

I seem to remember a dev saying that the renown quests (hearts) are really meant to get you into the areas where events will happen and then hopefully keep you there long enough for one to trigger. So they're more like breadcrumbs to dynamic events rather than being content in and of themselves.

That seemed to work about 50% of the time in my experience.

[Phred]

You can change the armor and weapon attributes by changing the weapon sigils and the armor runes (in their upgrade slots) at an NPC vendor in the Hall of Memories near the PVP banks. Likewise with rings, amulets etc. The point being to specialize in, for example, a Precision build.

The vanity items you buy with glory, and are cosmetic.

How about the runes and sigils? Are they purchasable with glory as well?

[Tyrnan]

I seem to remember a dev saying that the renown quests (hearts) are really meant to get you into the areas where events will happen and then hopefully keep you there long enough for one to trigger. So they're more like breadcrumbs to dynamic events rather than being content in and of themselves.

That seemed to work about 50% of the time in my experience.

Yeah they were a bit hit and miss for me too at times. The Norn area seemed the worse but maybe it was just bad luck. Or maybe they need shorten the intervals between events, for the starter areas at least.

[Phred]

I seem to remember a dev saying that the renown quests (hearts) are really meant to get you into the areas where events will happen and then hopefully keep you there long enough for one to trigger. So they're more like breadcrumbs to dynamic events rather than being content in and of themselves.

That seemed to work about 50% of the time in my experience.

Yeah they were a bit hit and miss for me too at times. The Norn area seemed the worse but maybe it was just bad luck. Or maybe they need shorten the intervals between events, for the starter areas at least.

Must have been a time of day thing because the norn area was hopping pretty much constantly Saturday night when I was there.

[Kageru]

There's a pretty fine balance between "too infrequent" and "resets before you make 20 paces". It seemed okay to me.

Also with quite a few of the hand-in quests the point was to get a "route" going that needed to be protected. It wasn't generally a long distance and often the item you were carrying would give you a speed boost or weapon use to keep it entertaining. Collectibles that weren't carried could be stacked (collect 20) and then handed in at once. Also with the neat trick that you could still hand in for an amount of time after it was completed so your contribution would be fully counted.

I liked it because even with the heart quests you can re-do or walk past as you like and the quest fits the environment. This dude has pests on the farm that need a kicking, why not help? While you were kicking them bandits attacked! better help. And the XP doesn't come from the farmer but from completion of the event. Which stops the feeling that all these NPC's have become incredibly lazy because they can get adventurers to fetch them bear asses because they have the magic power of gifting XP.

They're still, ultimately, go there and do things to get an XP / cash reward but it flows much better and suits the environment. It's the first viable replacement to traditional quests (which were the first viable replacement to grinding mobs).

[tmp]

What I really liked were the branching events though. Stop kobold thieves! Whoops, you fucked up and didn't stop them. So go get the supplies back! Branching the event off a failure is <3

That sounds cool, but in practice, is the failure something that happens often enough for these branches to come into play? I mean, i can't really remember a single quest in a MMO that i actually "failed"... so how does that work, do they throw bigger numbers of mobs the player can handle and have them corpse camp you until you log off in disgust, or what

[Severian]

How about the runes and sigils? Are they purchasable with glory as well?

No, they are free (but they don't follow you back to PvE any more than your boosted level 80 does). You can also use the NPCs to change weapons from the default loadouts. It's essentially the interface to adjust to the level 80 build you want to fight with.

[Nevermore]

What I really liked were the branching events though. Stop kobold thieves! Whoops, you fucked up and didn't stop them. So go get the supplies back! Branching the event off a failure is <3

That sounds cool, but in practice, is the failure something that happens often enough for these branches to come into play? I mean, i can't really remember a single quest in a MMO that i actually "failed"... so how does that work, do they throw bigger numbers of mobs the player can handle and have them corpse camp you until you log off in disgust, or what

Oh, you'll fail plenty and you're die a lot.

[Spiff]

Some you fail by dieing (more than a few times) or just running of, but there are others where the NPC's take multiple paths and you can just fail them 'cause you were guarding the big gate and forgot about the back door for instance, which is kind of cool.

There is a slight scaling issue though, mostly because it seems beyond a certain critical mass the only thing that happens is mobs hit a lot harder; which means a lot of people will die (mostly melee), but at that point there's so many people there that it does become 'unfailable' anyway.
I do hope they find a way to smooth that out or I'll have to stay out of the PvE entirely for the mad launch rush zerg ... type ... thing.

[kildorn]

You can also fail for say, a lack of snares/CC on the theft one. They run in, grab shit, and run out. If you can't spike them down or snare them, they'll get away. THAT happened a lot, because people weren't packing cripple based builds in the event.

[Shatter]

You can also fail for say, a lack of snares/CC on the theft one. They run in, grab shit, and run out. If you can't spike them down or snare them, they'll get away. THAT happened a lot, because people weren't packing cripple based builds in the event.

Sounds like you had all kinds of cripples to me :P

[Numtini]

It's the first viable replacement to traditional quests (which were the first viable replacement to grinding mobs).

Actually the first replacement for grinding mobs was running missions in groups. It's always been, of the three, my favorite, but when WoW didn't pick it up, everyone forgot Anarchy Online and COX. I find the GW2 gameplay to almost be a hybrid of the three.There's a quest element, there's a group zerg element a la the missions, and there's a grinding element as well. It would be nice if it were a bit more social, that was the good part of grinding, but I don't know how you can force that without idiotic levels of downtime.