SWTOR

[Ghambit]

They'd sell more boxes with limb-removal and space pr0n than telling a story anyways.

I don't think you've ever seen Star Wars based on that answer.

Star Wars the movie and Star Wars the game are two separate entities.
And there's a difference between making a game for Star Wars geektards and "everyone else."

[lamaros]

They'd sell more boxes with limb-removal and space pr0n than telling a story anyways.

I don't think you've ever seen Star Wars based on that answer.

This confuses me. What are you trying to say?

[UnSub]

They'd sell more boxes with limb-removal and space pr0n than telling a story anyways.

I don't think you've ever seen Star Wars based on that answer.

This confuses me. What are you trying to say?

That saying that limb-removal and space pr0n is going to be what shifts more boxes than if they tell story. Adding more violence and space pr0n is going to appeal more to the geektards, but it will sell more if they tone those parts down and slap a PG on the box cover. Throw in a hero's journey story, space opera, starship combat and magical laser swords and even the geektards are happy.

And fight all robot armies. No-one minds if you cut robots in half.

[AutomaticZen]

Star Wars the movie and Star Wars the game are two separate entities.
And there's a difference between making a game for Star Wars geektards and "everyone else."

The geektards will buy it regardless.  Aim for everyone else.

[Ghambit]

Star Wars the movie and Star Wars the game are two separate entities.
And there's a difference between making a game for Star Wars geektards and "everyone else."

The geektards will buy it regardless.  Aim for everyone else.

you have a point.
But, which would you think "everyone else" would want?  'Cause I think it's obvious Bioware is shirking game mechanics for the sake of their new story paradigm.
We've been through this argument in this thread already though and most people arent convinced it will work;  we remain hopeful, yet afraid.

[Surlyboi]

Star Wars the movie and Star Wars the game are two separate entities.
And there's a difference between making a game for Star Wars geektards and "everyone else."

The geektards will buy it regardless.  Aim for everyone else.

you have a point.
But, which would you think "everyone else" would want?  'Cause I think it's obvious Bioware is shirking game mechanics for the sake of their new story paradigm.
We've been through this argument in this thread already though and most people arent convinced it will work;  we remain hopeful, yet afraid.

So, since you've not seen the game mechanics, they're obviously shirking them?

Really?

[VainEldritch]

Star Wars the movie and Star Wars the game are two separate entities.
And there's a difference between making a game for Star Wars geektards and "everyone else."

The geektards will buy it regardless.  Aim for everyone else.

you have a point.
But, which would you think "everyone else" would want?  'Cause I think it's obvious Bioware is shirking game mechanics for the sake of their new story paradigm.
We've been through this argument in this thread already though and most people arent convinced it will work;  we remain hopeful, yet afraid.

So, since you've not seen the game mechanics, they're obviously shirking them?

Really?

I think not... but the veritable deluge of limb removal I listed was used only to illlustrate a point, and unfortunatly it got away from me.

What I don't want to see with lightsaber combat is two Jedi standing toe-to-toe, waving their sabers about with the sole effect of creating a nice light show with an occational shower of sparks, until one of them just falls over, presumably either overcome by the light flashes or bored to death, without a scratch on 'em. I want limb removal crits, I want people burned with flamethrowers and fried with force lightening. Less "Clone Wars" cartoon, more Star Wars movie immitation, please.

[Fordel]

Cartoon CloneTrooper frowns at you sir!





Can I make that my Avatar or is it too obnoxious?

[Senses]

I think he has a real point.  Light Sabres without limb removal are pretty tame and lame.  Obviously this comes down to the differences between the rating system of movies and games but the idea that you can essentially defeat someone in light Sabre combat without ever actually amputating something is pretty dissapointing.

[gryeyes]

And once you lose a limb its gone FOREVER. Bionics will be the mainstay of the crafting skills.

[DLRiley]

Everyone would be cyborgs in about a week.  . Besides that there is little chance a StarWars game is going to risk a rated M rating. And besides removing a limb is fun to look at not fun to gameplay wise. Oh yeah just lost my arm, permanent attack speed debuff along with damage debuff. Oh i lost my light saber arm, 90% of my bar is locked. Oh i lost my leg, permanent rooted.

[UnSub]

If bionics provide any sort of advantage, powergamers will be self-amputating limbs in less than 15 minutes after launch.

[DLRiley]

logically bionics should give an advantage to smugglers and storm troopers. bionics would only make a jedi or sith weaker due to the lack of force filled blood and blood vessels.

[Ratman_tf]

logically bionics should give an advantage to smugglers and storm troopers. bionics would only make a jedi or sith weaker due to the lack of force filled blood and blood vessels.

Like what happened to Vader! 

[DLRiley]

logically bionics should give an advantage to smugglers and storm troopers. bionics would only make a jedi or sith weaker due to the lack of force filled blood and blood vessels.

Like what happened to Vader! 

Vader abilities were stunted when he was more man then machine. Technically he was suppose to be 3 times stronger than Palpatine by the time luke sky walker started his 5 minute training sessions with obi man. But because he was basically a cyborg, not only did a noob like sky walker was able to kick his ass, but he wasn't even half as strong as he was when he fought obi wan the first time, it was only because Vader was prophet child prodigy that Vader was able to remain a threat. Also considering that everyone stronger or as strong as he was at his prime, were either dead, too old to posse a serious threat, or his superior...

God did i geek out for star wars? arg... anyway again limbs amputation = bad for gameplay and ratings.

[gryeyes]

Everyone would be cyborgs in about a week.  . Besides that there is little chance a StarWars game is going to risk a rated M rating. And besides removing a limb is fun to look at not fun to gameplay wise. Oh yeah just lost my arm, permanent attack speed debuff along with damage debuff. Oh i lost my light saber arm, 90% of my bar is locked. Oh i lost my leg, permanent rooted.

 

[Triforcer]

SWTOR never was and never will be Age of Conan.  If you are suddenly discovering that now, I hope you are adjusting well to non-cave living. 

[DLRiley]

Everyone would be cyborgs in about a week.  . Besides that there is little chance a StarWars game is going to risk a rated M rating. And besides removing a limb is fun to look at not fun to gameplay wise. Oh yeah just lost my arm, permanent attack speed debuff along with damage debuff. Oh i lost my light saber arm, 90% of my bar is locked. Oh i lost my leg, permanent rooted.

 

the last 3 pages of this thread was a facepalm but i wasn't complaining.

[Ratman_tf]

God did i geek out for star wars? arg...

Don't stop. We need to know how many midichlorians are in the average limb so we can calculate just how much force is lost when a player gets a cybernetic replacement. 

[DLRiley]

Midichlorians: Once introduced it can never be reconned.

[Surlyboi]

God did i geek out for star wars?

Yes. You also apparently lost your ability to construct a sentence in English there too. It was like your mind
started channeling Yoda or something.

[Margalis]

So, since you've not seen the game mechanics, they're obviously shirking them?

Really?

What they're focusing their messaging on is telling. If the game has a set of new and awesome mechanics don't you think they'd mention that? Clearly they don't see the gameplay as the main selling point of the game so why should we?

[Triforcer]

I think that's a bit unfair.  What they did was roll out the publicity train a bit too early, when mechanics are still in flux.  Thus, all they safely can talk about are generalities. 

[lamaros]

I think that's a bit unfair.  What they did was roll out the publicity train a bit too early, when mechanics are still in flux.  Thus, all they safely can talk about are generalities. 

All they're talking about with the 'story element' is generalities too, so I don't buy that.

[Ashamanchill]

Star Wars the movie and Star Wars the game are two separate entities.
And there's a difference between making a game for Star Wars geektards and "everyone else."

The geektards will buy it regardless.  Aim for everyone else.

This.  Having an M rating on the box with a half naked Natalie Portman (I don't know her fucking character's name in the movie) might make the hardcores jizz their pants, but it will stop grandma from buying it for little Timmy. 

Everyone would be cyborgs in about a week.  . Besides that there is little chance a StarWars game is going to risk a rated M rating. And besides removing a limb is fun to look at not fun to gameplay wise. Oh yeah just lost my arm, permanent attack speed debuff along with damage debuff. Oh i lost my light saber arm, 90% of my bar is locked. Oh i lost my leg, permanent rooted.

Since I haven't heard much at all about what PvP is going to be like isn't this all moot right now anyways?  Since we are mostly going to be killing AI mobs in our own private instances, they can have limbs come off as they please without it affecting gameplay.

[Surlyboi]

So, since you've not seen the game mechanics, they're obviously shirking them?

Really?

What they're focusing their messaging on is telling. If the game has a set of new and awesome mechanics don't you think they'd mention that? Clearly they don't see the gameplay as the main selling point of the game so why should we?

We all know it's gonna be some form of Diku. I really doubt there's gonna be any ground broken mechanics-wise. But since when is going with the status quo considered shirking?

[Ghambit]

I figure at this point if we havent heard of the mechanics (of a game who's engine's been playable since '06) that pretty much means there's nothing special about them and the best Bioware has to offer on their game is their Story-system.  Their publicity train only focuses on what they've been focusing on because that's all they've really got.  Ever seen a well-marketed MMO that harps on their generic DIKU mechanisms?  Or an FPS that says "shoot a blaster, knock over a droid?"   

cmon now.  The story is the game (they've said this), and the rest will be vanilla.  I'm not complaining about it, but I'm not holding out hope for some secret uber-mechanic that reinvigorates the market either.  A story-driven KOTOR MMO is a story-driven KOTOR MMO.  KOTOR + MMO + storied-voiceovers.  Played KOTOR?  That's probably the mechanic you're gonna get, or something similar (prepare for the cooldowns).  Listened to an audiobook?  There's your voiceovers.

The last scenario that may be a possibility is that they're just not sure what they want to do mechanically, or they may have thoughts of changing their original design.  Which wouldnt be the 1st time we've seen an internal paradigm shift for a game mid-development.  It's not a healthy or smart thing to do, but Bioware isnt immune to these kinds of mistakes either.

<ardent speculation brought to you by Darth Ghambit>

[LK]

So, since you've not seen the game mechanics, they're obviously shirking them?

Really?

Clearly they don't see the gameplay as the main selling point of the game so why should we?

Bioware games were never about the game mechanics.

[Falwell]

So, since you've not seen the game mechanics, they're obviously shirking them?

Really?

Clearly they don't see the gameplay as the main selling point of the game so why should we?

Bioware games were never about the game mechanics.

Very true. It's also something they better change PFQ if they plan on running a succcessful long term MMO.

[Lantyssa]

Yes, because KotOR and other Bioware games did so poorly.

[Ghambit]

And there are so many story-driven MMO successes.

[Reg]

Probably about as many as the successes derived from stellar gameplay mechanics.

[Lantyssa]

There have been as many successes as there have been attempts.

[Goumindong]

There have been as many successes as there have been attempts.

Its also totally possible to win global thermonuclear war, its just that no one has tried...

Largely the mechanics are the most important point of an MMO, players don't much pay attention to the story, only how hard they hit stuff and how powerful their character becomes.

To say that they are nothing more that systems analysis[whatever system the game chooses, FPS games are about map optimization where Eve is more about social optimization(though there certainly other optimizations at work)] would be false, but its still the prime motivating force that keeps people playing MMOs.

[Bzalthek]

Players in today's MMOs don't pay attention to the story, but you know, fuck them.  Let's make a game for non-catasses and see how it goes.