Carbine Studios' "Wildstar"

[Ghambit]

Check your emails Wildlings, big beta push (including friend invites) just went out.  On that note, I come bearing gifts.  Two beta keys (actually 3, but I'll keep 1 in my back pocket).  Ping me for deets, but realize it may take me a while to respond as I'm stuck with family inside a polar vortex.   

[Flood]

Check your emails Wildlings, big beta push (including friend invites) just went out.  On that note, I come bearing gifts.  Two beta keys (actually 3, but I'll keep 1 in my back pocket).  Ping me for deets, but realize it may take me a while to respond as I'm stuck with family inside a polar vortex.   

I'd like one please!  I keep thinking Ill get an invite from them soon but never do.  I'll PM you also.  Thanks in advance!

[01101010]

Check your emails Wildlings, big beta push (including friend invites) just went out.  On that note, I come bearing gifts.  Two beta keys (actually 3, but I'll keep 1 in my back pocket).  Ping me for deets, but realize it may take me a while to respond as I'm stuck with family inside a polar vortex.   

I swear I have the worst lottery luck on the planet 

[Ginaz]

This is the one game I really want a beta key for.  What happens?  I get one for a game I'm not really that interested in.

[Ghambit]

Keys gone to Falc. (whom I expect will like the game if he can get over his diku-phobia) and Cadaver.
Ginaz, if I still have my last key by the end of the week I'll give it to you.

I wouldn't fret much if you didnt get one yet, because really this is the final push here till release and it's likely they'll be struggling to fill the beta server until OB; so they'll probably be handing them out quite a bit.

[Ginaz]

Keys gone to Falc. (whom I expect will like the game if he can get over his diku-phobia) and Cadaver.
Ginaz, if I still have my last key by the end of the week I'll give it to you.

I wouldn't fret much if you didnt get one yet, because really this is the final push here till release and it's likely they'll be struggling to fill the beta server until OB; so they'll probably be handing them out quite a bit.

Cool, thanks.

[Sjofn]

Check your emails Wildlings, big beta push (including friend invites) just went out.  On that note, I come bearing gifts.  Two beta keys (actually 3, but I'll keep 1 in my back pocket).  Ping me for deets, but realize it may take me a while to respond as I'm stuck with family inside a polar vortex.   

Are those the you-logged-in-on-these-Saturdays invites?

[Kitsune]

Signed up for beta in August, 2011.  Beta key?  Nope.

[Falconeer]

Yeah, I am really not fond of the setting (to use an euphemism) but my group of friends is really excited about it so we will definitely go for it for at least a couple of months, and then we'll see from there. Warplots, paths and housing are my "hope". Combat not so much since I heard there's "auto-facing"and "auto-lock".........

That said, I've been invited to every stress test so far but they all turned out to be unplayable. Looking forward to try this one properly.

[Ghambit]

Check your emails Wildlings, big beta push (including friend invites) just went out.  On that note, I come bearing gifts.  Two beta keys (actually 3, but I'll keep 1 in my back pocket).  Ping me for deets, but realize it may take me a while to respond as I'm stuck with family inside a polar vortex.   

Are those the you-logged-in-on-these-Saturdays invites?

No, this was a "you've been wanting a key since concept art, so here's your key finally" invite + friend invites.

[Sjofn]

OK, just making sure I didn't have to cry in a ticket that I didn't get my invites for that yet. ;)

[Lakov_Sanite]

Yeah, I am really not fond of the setting (to use an euphemism) but my group of friends is really excited about it so we will definitely go for it for at least a couple of months, and then we'll see from there. Warplots, paths and housing are my "hope". Combat not so much since I heard there's "auto-facing"and "auto-lock".........

That said, I've been invited to every stress test so far but they all turned out to be unplayable. Looking forward to try this one properly.

Heard this outside of beta but auto-face is said to not be in the final product or at least not allowed in pvp.

[Falconeer]

I really, really hope so. And honestly, I would be surprised if they didn't. Autofacing in PvP, seriously? Who the hell is their target audience?

[ezrast]

It's incongruous not to have auto-facing. The "game" in Diku PvP is in using GCDs properly. There's no reason to add a single, bizarre execution test in an otherwise completely tactical game.

Unless it's melee vs caster in a game without collisions, then it's not an execution test but a mixup. A mixup where the first party rapidly oscillates through the second, and the second responds by flailing their mouse spastically. Which is still stupid.

[Falconeer]

Really? Well, I haven't really tried it yet so I can't comment on your counterpoints, but considering the last game I remember having auto-facing (outside of Korean MMOs) was DAoC about thirteen years ago, you seem to imply that all the MMORPGs without collisions since then (including WoW?) have been incongruous. Not being snarky, just trying to understand your reasoning.

[sam, an eggplant]

It's incongruous not to have auto-facing. The "game" in Diku PvP is in using GCDs properly. There's no reason to add a single, bizarre execution test in an otherwise completely tactical game\

Not at all. The core gameplay consists of skill shots. That's how they advertised it.

The problem is that grinding dozens of hours leveling up in a MMO with constant skill shots gets old fast. So you add auto-facing and just disable it in PvP.

[MediumHigh]

Generally "all skill shots" and diku barely mix. Why do I want a game filled with stats and power levels and have to aim abilities with high cool downs and very little damage?

[Nebu]

It's tough to find a happy medium.  I found that I tired of GW2 combat pretty fast because of the sheer amount of spastic kiting required for EVERY combat scenario.  Constantly running in big circles while spamming buttons may appeal to today's FPS crowd, but I prefer something a bit more tactical in my combat (like WoT). 

Collision detection isn't going to be a possibility in any serios pvp game simply because it makes griefing (and frustration) too easy to accomplish.  Have an enemy that's giving you trouble?  Simply pin them in a corner until the fight is over.  It's a modified version of spawn camping.

[Falconeer]

Collision detection isn't going to be a possibility in any serios pvp game simply because it makes griefing (and frustration) too easy to accomplish.  Have an enemy that's giving you trouble?  Simply pin them in a corner until the fight is over.  It's a modified version of spawn camping.

Strongly disagree unless you are talking about massive PvP, like dozens vs dozens where walls of players just happen no matter what. Smite is a perfect example of collision detection done right in a PvP game. Same was true for Conan, or TERA. The potential for griefing with collision detection on is higher in PvE than PvP. In PvE I can cut someone out of content, or just prevent them frommoving with a cage of enough dickhead players. In PvP, at least I can kill them.

I mean, if you can pin them in a corner, either you can kill them (so you didn't need to pin them out of combat in the first place) or they can kill you and your tactic failed.

[sam, an eggplant]

Generally "all skill shots" and diku barely mix. Why do I want a game filled with stats and power levels and have to aim abilities with high cool downs and very little damage?

Wildstar is not really a game of high cooldowns. Every spec has one or two, but mostly you spam the same 1-2 buttons to build a resource and 1-2 buttons to spend it. The actual combat gameplay really isn't much like WoW, there is very little gameplay/rotation/priority. Aiming skill shots is how they are trying to compensate for that. All that is outside NDA, with the streamers etc. Whether it's successful or not, well, my opinion sadly is under NDA.

At higher levels of play you will need to aim skill shots even in PvE to perform optimally, and my guess is that leaving auto-facing on will be looked down upon much like clicking in WoW.

Nebu, if you don't want to run in circles Wildstar definitely isn't for you. Running away from telegraphs is... well, the entire game.

[Paelos]

I can see kiting and dodging as a very important part of this game unfortunately.

[ezrast]

Really? Well, I haven't really tried it yet so I can't comment on your counterpoints, but considering the last game I remember having auto-facing (outside of Korean MMOs) was DAoC about thirteen years ago, you seem to imply that all the MMORPGs without collisions since then (including WoW?) have been incongruous. Not being snarky, just trying to understand your reasoning.

Oh, I don't know anything about Wildstar combat, I'm just assuming from what I've read here that it's basically WoW in space. And yes, that aspect of WoW PvP always annoyed me. My second paragraph was alluding to rogue-vs-mage-style fights, where the rogue strafes back and forth through the mage quickly to maximize their chances of being behind the mage when the mage's spell finishes. They can do it fast enough that latency makes it impossible to react to, so the proper mage reponse is to hold down mouselook and spin around equally unpredictably while casting, bringing their odds of succeeding at any spell cast up to an even 50%. In fighting game terms, it's a mixup.

In any other situation, there's no tactical significance to being able to fail a spellcast due to facing. It's just an opportunity for the player to screw up their own gameplan that doesn't generate any interactivity with their opponent. It's an execution test in a non-execution-based game.

If Wildstar is all skillshots then it's kind of moot unless the auto-facing leads your opponent for you?

[MediumHigh]

I think there is several things mmo's and even moba's get wrong with more "active" combat.

1. While you think they cater to the fps crowds way of thinking... they don't. The problem is that in a fps the damage a player character can dish is laps the health of said player character by the 4^2. Meaning that you can intentionally if skilled enough, take on multiple enemies in short order as long as your aiming, reflexes and positioning hold up. You can't do that in conventional online rpg.

2. Well they should resemble fighting games than.... well they don't. Fighting games have 1 key thing that mmo's do not. Your always, no matter if your a 2D fighter or a 3D fighter, facing your opponent. Its very, very, very hard to get behind someone, or worse yet bunny hop away from damage. No matter what your opponent is trackable and you will always take advantage of lapses in his defenses because he conventionally can't do so forever. Which again rpg...not so much...

I generally play my stats and gear games for a more tactical experience, less for the level of execution necessary.

[Paelos]

Active combat in my mind is fine if you have clipping. If you can run through opposing players and are still expected to maintain active facing? Your game sucks and won't work.

[Ghambit]

If combat isn't your thing then pick a class/path that isn't too combat-oriented.  Dont like skillshots?  pick the class that doesnt use em much.  Dont like platforming?  Dont be an explorer and may as well not be a chua either.  Dont like finger-spaghetti mobility?  Dont pick a class like spellslinger.  Within all of this, you can also always shift your "deck" to cater to your style of play.

All this is public info.  so not breaking an NDA here methinks.

Games like Wildstar are more puzzle-builder/managers then anything else (the essence of diku).  They're not combat-sims.  The devs would do best to realize this, and maximize the puzzle rather then trying to make diku-arma as some of you suggest.   

[sam, an eggplant]

Err, every class is combat oriented, this is still a diku, but some do rely less on skill shots than others. That said, if you find the skill shots annoying you can just turn auto-facing on. In PvE, anyway. But you'll still have to dance out of telegraphs all the time.

[Sjofn]

Yeah, uh ... all the classes are combat-oriented, so I'm not sure where you're going with that there, Ghambit.

Autofacing makes the skill-shot thing not so big a deal (there are still times where you're going to want to aim, of course). It only works in PvE. Assuming the HNNNNGH CARBINE U PROMISED TEH GAEM WOULD B 4 TEH HARDCORRRRRRRRRRRE people don't get their way and it winds up removed entirely. 

[Draegan]

If combat isn't your thing then pick a class/path that isn't too combat-oriented.  Dont like skillshots?  pick the class that doesnt use em much.  Dont like platforming?  Dont be an explorer and may as well not be a chua either.  Dont like finger-spaghetti mobility?  Dont pick a class like spellslinger.  Within all of this, you can also always shift your "deck" to cater to your style of play.

All this is public info.  so not breaking an NDA here methinks.

Games like Wildstar are more puzzle-builder/managers then anything else (the essence of diku).  They're not combat-sims.  The devs would do best to realize this, and maximize the puzzle rather then trying to make diku-arma as some of you suggest.   

You need to read up on Wildstar some more.

[Lakov_Sanite]

If combat isn't your thing then pick a class/path that isn't too combat-oriented.  Dont like skillshots?  pick the class that doesnt use em much.  Dont like platforming?  Dont be an explorer and may as well not be a chua either.  Dont like finger-spaghetti mobility?  Dont pick a class like spellslinger.  Within all of this, you can also always shift your "deck" to cater to your style of play.

All this is public info.  so not breaking an NDA here methinks.

Games like Wildstar are more puzzle-builder/managers then anything else (the essence of diku).  They're not combat-sims.  The devs would do best to realize this, and maximize the puzzle rather then trying to make diku-arma as some of you suggest.   

You need to read up on Wildstar some more.

 

[Ghambit]

So I guess pumping bilges on puzzle pirates is combat too eh?  Spamming aoe heals is 'combat?'  Sending bots on errands whilst watching porn is 'combat' too?  When I say combat, I mean combat... not heal-rotation, control abilities, macroed abstractions, and so forth.  Once again I've failed to explain myself adequately I guess.

I suppose this thread will now turn into some "what is combat" philosophical discussion.

[Rendakor]

Not sure if troll.

[Ghambit]

It's not a troll, I just sometimes don't feel like I'm in "combat" when playing a so-called combat-oriented game, let alone when I'm playing a class that's more designed for support (not direct engagement).  For me, the distinctions are different then others.

[Lakov_Sanite]

  so HARD

[Paelos]

I can already tell I was wrong about something with this game. It will be polarizing.

[MediumHigh]

1. Only play online games to bash things.
2. Only theocrafting how wildstar's method of bashing things lines up with other examples of "active" bashing things.
3. The game could easily fall into the category of insanely fun and initiative or novel and repetitive or downright brain numbing, depending on how well the pew pew works with what''s actually presented as game. Like having a bunch of jumping puzzles when your z axis physics is buggy at best, downright wrong at worst.
4. Given 1-3, I don't see ringing endorsements for not bashing things as a positive.