The "I hate datacrons" thread (spoilers)

[amiable]

I understand making getting these things a challenge, but requiring an excessive amount of platforming in a game that has such poor control response is insane.  I managed to collect all of them up to Taris now (except for the 2 on the literally hour long balloon wait/ride on Tattooine).  My wife has an optical keyboard and it is almost impossible for her to get them because of the 10 ms delay between keypress and activation.

Couldn't they just give you the option to buy them for 50 commendations per planet or whatever?  Good grief.

Just needed to vent.

[Wolf]

My exact thoughts when I first heard about them this week. I don't mind their exsitence - but they have to give access to something cosmetic, 50 or so stats is not cosmetic. Or if you go that way, just give people the option to pay for them with tokens at max level, if not for the space-trinket bits, at least for the +stats.

[eldaec]

I'm not sure anything related to datacrons can count as spoilers.

[amiable]

I'm not sure anything related to datacrons can count as spoilers.

i just wanted to be cautious, some folks consider the location of them spoilerish.

[eldaec]

Some folks are batshit insane.

[ajax34i]

What percentage is +50 per stat at level 50?

A lot of them add bonuses to stats I don't care about, so maybe the pain can be cut in half by just getting the important ones (End, Presence, mystat, and the shards).

[01101010]

The ones on corusant broke any desire to get more crons done. Seriously... jump timing and running on hair line pipes/cables =/= fun. Like it has been said... this is something to do 4 months from now while bored and waiting for a patch.

[eldaec]

What percentage is +50 per stat at level 50?

Level 50 purple gear has in the order of +100 on each piece, so less than 5%.

[Sky]

I understand making getting these things a challenge, but requiring an excessive amount of platforming in a game that has such poor control response is insane...My wife has an optical keyboard and it is almost impossible for her to get them because of the 10 ms delay between keypress and activation.

So you're pissed at your wife's keyboard?

I'm confused.

They're entirely optional unless you're in the hardcore must conform raid segment, and imo you did that to yourself.

[Paelos]

They're entirely optional unless you're in the hardcore must conform raid segment, and imo you did that to yourself.

Don't be obtuse. Jumping puzzles in an MMOG are stupid for more reasons that that. How about lag? How about the fact that animations in this game aren't exact? Clipping? Invisble walls? Random delay?

Being optional doesn't excuse a bad idea. It's one thing to hid items in the world for discovery. It's another to require the people that want to find them to go through bad mechanics to have their fun.

[Wolf]

it really doesn't matter if it's 1% or 5%, it's like raiding without a flask or two proper non-gathering professions in wow. Yes, you can, but your character is not as good as it can be. Also guilds will require it, so there's that.

for the record a flask is less than 5%, a profession a little more than 1%. Yet, they're required.

[eldaec]

Then leave the guild.

Seriously.

[Paelos]

Then leave the guild.

Seriously.

Wolf's going to argue from the progression raider POV. It's good to have that viewpoint, but you need to understand that he's correct within that sphere.

"Just quit, lulz" isn't an option for those people.

[eldaec]

Actually I disagree when there are other things you could be doing with your time for an extra 1%. If the guild can't recognise that then they are bad at being a serious business progression RARR guild.

Also afaik the guild have no way to tell if you have the datacrons, since they have almost no impact on performance and aren't visible anywhere.

EA are going out of their way to protect raidtards from themselves by not making epeen measurements visible at the micro level.

[ajax34i]

5% puts it at the end of the queue of things I can do to improve my character, so basically IF I'm in a raiding guild AND:

- I've gotten all the purples / Tier set I can have access to
- I've bought or crafted adrenals and stims enough for use for hours uninterrupted
- My talents and rotations are super-optimized according to the best armchair advice on the internets

- and it's still not enough,

Then I'll look at getting the hard-to-get datacrons.

Datacrons seem to be the perfect OCD behavior bait.

[Wolf]

You really think this game will not have an armory the second they have spare dev time? If 5% of anything doesn't matter, the developers aren't doing their hardmodes right. It is what it is, that's the game some people are looking for. Not all of them are Paragon, Method or 16 years old. The 10m rading scene in Cataclysm is proving that.

Ajax, that's not the point. The point is that +50 (or however much it is, that's really a number I made up) is on that list of things you need so your character is as prepared as it can be. Is it even relevent in the current tier of conent? No, all bosses fell on nightmare mode the week between christmas and new years, so datacrons weren't even needed. I'm pretty sure that all that was need was 16 people that have seen an actual hard mode. However, and I'm calling it now, the next raid they release (full patch tier or something in between) will have a brutal hard mode. If they don't go after the disgruntled top wow guilds now (between DW and Pandas), they won't have a chance. And they've said multiple times they're serious about creating a raiding scene. That's when the datacrons and their 5% become relevent and bad design.

[Merusk]

My opinion on flasks was the same when they were "required" as it is now.

We're not a a top % raiding guild.  We're never going to be one and when the little dps bitch that is 5% behind me and IS all potted and buffed to hell manages to pass me on the precious meters I'll worry about it.  Until then get off my back.

If you're obsessing over it like it's "Required" and you're not in that top % guild - chances are there's other things in your raid you can fix.

[eldaec]

I don't know what an armoury is? But guessing it is a wow retread of the eq/daoc etc websites that tell you how awesome your guy is?

I actually think EA have make a specific decision to let you show epeen, but only in approximate terms. This is precisely why you have no combat log.

[kildorn]

I don't know what an armoury is? But guessing it is a wow retread of the eq/daoc etc websites that tell you how awesome your guy is?

I actually think EA have make a specific decision to let you show epeen, but only in approximate terms. This is precisely why you have no combat log.

I'm 99.99999% certain that we have no combat log because it's completely broken and they're not sure how to fix it yet. I seriously doubt it was a question in the office "should we even provide damage numbers?"

[Azuredream]

I have every single datacron except the one on Belsavis that requires you to find four Rakata energy cells that are really hard to find clickies hidden all over Belsavis (seriously, fuck that one) and the one on the fleet that requires a coordinated team of four using the buggy MGGS to solve a puzzle. There are a few datacrons that I'll just be skipping over on my alts but most of them aren't too bad and can be gotten as you quest. If you're planning on being a super hardcore raider, even if you skipped every single one you could probably get 95% of them in a day using a guide.

[Wolf]

My opinion on flasks was the same when they were "required" as it is now.

We're not a a top % raiding guild.  We're never going to be one and when the little dps bitch that is 5% behind me and IS all potted and buffed to hell manages to pass me on the precious meters I'll worry about it.  Until then get off my back.

If you're obsessing over it like it's "Required" and you're not in that top % guild - chances are there's other things in your raid you can fix.

Here's my point as clear as I can make it. If you're required to get datacrons to join a guild, than yes, you probably don't need them. You won't be less required to get them. On the other hand if you're serious about your character and raiding noone will have to require it out of you - you'll go get them on your own time and you'll have a bad experience doing something you don't necesarilly enjoy.

I don't think there's anyone that can really defend that design, all they had to do is make the datacron rewards cosmetic. Here's the extreme end of the spectrum of that particular line of thought - Insane in the membrane giving +300 stats.

[Ingmar]

Shit like flasks and datacrons are more 'needed' for bad guilds like mine than for bleeding edge raiders in any case. Super awesome players can make up for a lot by executing well, we need the bumpers in our bowling alley in the form of the extra stats.  Which is why I think Merusk's approach kind of gets it exactly wrong for the non-elite, but of course it also depends on how tightly content is tuned.

[amiable]

They're entirely optional unless you're in the hardcore must conform raid segment, and imo you did that to yourself.

Don't be obtuse. Jumping puzzles in an MMOG are stupid for more reasons that that. How about lag? How about the fact that animations in this game aren't exact? Clipping? Invisble walls? Random delay?

Being optional doesn't excuse a bad idea. It's one thing to hid items in the world for discovery. It's another to require the people that want to find them to go through bad mechanics to have their fun.

This. Especially because some of the later datacrons require executing 7-10 flawless jumps or result in insta death.  We are the exact opposite of hardcore raiders but it would still be nice to not be at a disadvantage in pvp and such because we all aren't super mario pros.

[Merusk]

Wolf, you used "Serious" and "Raiding" in the same sentence in regards to TOR.

While that may be true eventually, last I heard all the "hawt" raiding guilds have already written-off TOR as shit and will be sticking in pandaland.

If BA is serious about raiding, they'd better start slamming out longer patch notes than 2-3 lines every week.  Shit be buggy.

[Paelos]

Dear Lord,

Please let the hardcore raiders turn their eyes away from this game. Let them be focused on uberleet panda mounts.

Amen.

[Mrbloodworth]

Yeah, lots of hate for a silly feature.

[Rokal]

My friend who is playing SWTOR was telling me about these and it sounded like something I'd like. Jumping puzzles in Rift and DDO are some of the most memorable/fun content in those games. I really don't understand why they'd give people stats instead of something cosmetic, but it's cool that they added them into the game. I know the community is pretty divided about them in Rift and DDO too, but they get less hate since they are mostly optional.

[kaid]

I have every single datacron except the one on Belsavis that requires you to find four Rakata energy cells that are really hard to find clickies hidden all over Belsavis (seriously, fuck that one) and the one on the fleet that requires a coordinated team of four using the buggy MGGS to solve a puzzle. There are a few datacrons that I'll just be skipping over on my alts but most of them aren't too bad and can be gotten as you quest. If you're planning on being a super hardcore raider, even if you skipped every single one you could probably get 95% of them in a day using a guide.

I am pretty much saving the datacrons for post 50 stuff to do when I am bored. Given the lack of logs its not like anybody can call you out for 5% less damage.

[amiable]

So today I waited 30 minute to catch the tattoine balloon, rode it for 30 minute, only to have it despawn and drop me on the ground right before I was able to get to the holocron.  

[Merusk]

Shit like flasks and datacrons are more 'needed' for bad guilds like mine than for bleeding edge raiders in any case. Super awesome players can make up for a lot by executing well, we need the bumpers in our bowling alley in the form of the extra stats.  Which is why I think Merusk's approach kind of gets it exactly wrong for the non-elite, but of course it also depends on how tightly content is tuned.

I missed this earlier;  I've never been in a guild that's struggled the way you guys have chatted about.  If I had been, I might have a different opinion.  The guilds I raided with had a distinct raiding focus and THEN were F&F, not the other way-round like SLAP appears to be.  That shaman you all chuckle about?  He wouldn't have been drafted for progression raids but hung-out until after the content was on farm.  The only way he'd be on a progression raid is if there weren't enough healers.

In the casual world complaining about potions etc does you no good when you lose 1/3 of your healers and all access to combat rezzers because one or two idiots can't stay out of the fire.  Or some DPS is too worried about their output so they won't switch targets, or cc.  Or the tank won't fucking stop twitching his fingers on the movement keys, constantly moving the boss out of position.

These are all problems I had in my guilds that - when those individuals were sorted-out or removed - we got kills within the next raid cycle.   I could have doubled or tripled my own DPS (and in BC-era I was already ahead of the others by about 5%, unpotted.)  and it wouldn't have mattered because the problems were in no way related to the minor stat boost.  This is why they are inconsequential to most 'casual' raiders.

[Sky]

Merusk: BC raid lieutenant!

 

[Sjofn]

The only way he'd be on a progression raid is if there weren't enough healers.

He uh. He would not be drafted if there weren't enough healers. Because a) he was not one and b) oh my God he would be terrible.

I tend to agree, though, that the stat buffers and stuff are more needed for shitty guilds than bleeding edge guilds. No, it won't make Drachmir get out of the fire faster, but it'll make it so the two ticks he takes before he trundles out of it not kill him, he'll have to miss TWO steps of the Heigan dance in a row before dying, we'll down the boss riiiiiight before it enrages, etc. It gives you a bit more of a buffer, so that the people who are terrible can be terrible for a little longer, while hitting a little harder.

Can't say we've ever had the DPSers-too-worried-about-their-meter problem, though.

[Merusk]

The DPS thing was a problem on a few places.  Lootreaver (MOVE, damnit!)  Anubrekhan & Saurfang being the examples that immediately spring to mind.

Merusk: BC raid lieutenant!

Ach! No!

[Riggswolfe]

First: Each datacron gives between +2 and +4 to a single stat or a matrix shard. I haven't done the math but not all stats are on all planets and I'd guesstimate you'd get around +16 or so total to each stat if you get every single datacron.

Second: I suck at platforming and I've gotten every single datacron so far except one on Hoth that requires a Hydrothinner (which I don't know where to find), one on Belsavis that requires jumping onto a laser bridge that I seem to just pass right through, and the one on Belsavis that requires finding the clickies which I got tired of looking for. On my alts I've gotten most of the datacrons on my very first try. The jumps really aren't that bad at all once you get used to how things work. I see alot of people going crazy about falling off pipes or missing jumps then acting shocked when I ask if they have sprint on and suggesting they turn it off.

[tmp]

I'd probable get quite a few more of these things if more of them were possible to initially spot/hear. Trying to figure out a way to certain point can be ok, humping every random slope and piece of geometry that looks like it may lead somewhere while hoping there won't be an invisible wall, big fat nothing or my character doesn't just get stuck in some hole they randomly slid into ... not so much.

The way controls and collision detection are handled doesn't help, either.