War

[Meester]

TBH, I havn't really been playing EvE that much either.

Waiting for Tyrannis really, although Im not expecting much from it. Wondering how you do diplomacy away from the game, although looking at IT Alliance I guess its recordings of teamspeak?

[Endie]

TBH, I havn't really been playing EvE that much either.

Waiting for Tyrannis really, although Im not expecting much from it. Wondering how you do diplomacy away from the game, although looking at IT Alliance I guess its recordings of teamspeak?

The north uses MSN and jabber, the Russians often use ICQ etc etc.  Play long enough to be in alliance leadership and apparently you've played long enough to be pretty bored of the game itself.  Not to mention those horrible fonts.  I'd have more luck convoing people in WoW than eve.

Also I hate that this forum software basically hides the fact that people have messages.

[Pezzle]

Have they changed it so you cannot offline SBU's yet?

Why would they? 

Because as it stands the best defensive measure you can take is attacking yourself. 

[slog]

Have they changed it so you cannot offline SBU's yet?

Why would they?  

Because as it stands the best defensive measure you can take is attacking yourself.  

Wouldn't that take away the attackers ability to change their mind? 

Edit:  This is way off topic, sorry.   

[Fordel]

Not like your clogging up all the rampant war reports atm.

[tgr]

Moderately related to the current war, since K/D ratio might be important for BOB/ITs, but I was browsing the IT killboard, and I found a case of what I can only assume is someone padding their KD ratio:

http://www.it-kills.us/?a=pilot_detail&plt_id=66205&view=kills

[Sir T]

That stuff is by no means exclusive to IT but it was fairly rampant with them all the way back. Friend of mine used to watch privateers blatantly doing it with alts. This guy is just more stupid than most at it.

[Phildo]

It probably has nothing to do with padding k/d ratios.  When a neuit is in your system, you kill it.  There were guys that set their clones to PR- and kept jumping Ibises into NOL back when we lived there.  Would you ignore it if some neutral was sitting around on a gate or station?

[Meester]

Makes sense to kill and pod them over and over if you think they are spying.

[Kovacs]

For the love of god people we're 48'ish hours away from Max deux and there's been no damn prognosticating?!?  If we're not Prognosticating what are we doing?  Hell, I wouldn't even mind Some pontificating so long as it contains some small amount of prognostication.

As for me, since I have entirely by mistake and without my explicit consent managed to have some skin in this game, I'm expecting a D2-like soul sucking implosion.

**Oh and heh.  Before you ask, no I'm not sure that prognosticating really means what I think it means.

[bhodi]

That's very true.  But since I stopped playing computer games I've read a huge list of great and important books I never got round to before, I've put in raised beds in my garden, been to the gym three times a week, demolished an outbulding to make way for a new apartment on my land, been promoted at work and been made a Goon diplomat (turns out you don't need to log in at all for that).  So I'm pretty happy with the outcome.

I honestly think it's as much the sleep patterns as the spare time.

Yet another proof that life is better without playing eve, ITT

[Sir T]

For the love of god people we're 48'ish hours away from Max deux and there's been no damn prognosticating?!?  If we're not Prognosticating what are we doing?  Hell, I wouldn't even mind Some pontificating so long as it contains some small amount of prognostication.

As for me, since I have entirely by mistake and without my explicit consent managed to have some skin in this game, I'm expecting a D2-like soul sucking implosion.

**Oh and heh.  Before you ask, no I'm not sure that prognosticating really means what I think it means.

prog·nos·ti·cate

–verb (used with object)
1.
to forecast or predict (something future) from present indications or signs; prophesy.
2.
to foretoken; presage: birds prognosticating spring.
–verb (used without object)
3.
to make a forecast; prophesy.

I think you will find it's more that most don't care very much about it.

[Endie]

Mills lost a big chunk of his capfleet. Luckily for him there was a server crash and rollback. Shame for PL and CVA that never happened. Anyway, they lost fifty caps and were going to lose superxaps before the server collapsed. Max 2? More like Max 1 reloaded amirite?  This will take the wind out of the sails of some peripheral attendees a little: just give them a sense of doubt with the similarity to last time.

[tgr]

We took out a revelation and an archon as well with a small BS/BC fleet, nbd.

Apparently the carrier guy had just joined IT 8 days prior, and had all his T2 cruisers inside the carrier. I'm guessing he's a sad panda now.

[slog]

I predict many more server crashes followed by reduced participation followed by meh.

[Simond]

Yeah, pretty much with certain of the attacking alliances getting to 'meh' significantly before others. (e.g. IT's attack will last exactly as long as it takes for someone to stick SBUs up in NOL )

E: Haha, CCP is nerfing the crap out of the drone regions. I now fully expect Mactep/xxdeathxx to turn around and attack Bobby Atlas for his space.

[Endie]

Yeah, pretty much with certain of the attacking alliances getting to 'meh' significantly before others. (e.g. IT's attack will last exactly as long as it takes for someone to stick SBUs up in NOL )

E: Haha, CCP is nerfing the crap out of the drone regions. I now fully expect Mactep/xxdeathxx to turn around and attack Bobby Atlas for his space.

Erm, that devblog contains two potential boosts to the drones. There are three areas that could be nerfs or buffs, depending on the numbers. But the intention is clearly stated to buff drone ratting. 

[Stabs]

There's a real problem with making the Drone Regions more attractive simply by buffing the diversity of minerals and increasing the quantity.

Ratting appeals to combat pilots because of bounty. You can take a combat ship and go shoot rats for instant cash.

Killing drones requires hauling the loot, reprocessing it and then either being able to sell or manufacture something sellable with the minerals. Much less attractive to the average player than instant cash.

If the intention is to make the Drone Regions more attractive for Alliances to invade this isn't enough.

[eldaec]

The only problem with the Drone regions is that crazy people live there.

[lac]

Isn't the real news in that devblog that they are adjusting the artificial limit on mineral prices that is insurance? This and adjusting drone minerals to reflect ship ingredients should make those regions more attractive, no?

[Simond]

Erm, that devblog contains two potential boosts to the drones. There are three areas that could be nerfs or buffs, depending on the numbers. But the intention is clearly stated to buff drone ratting. 

Counterpoint: It's CCP so even if they mean to buff drone ratting they'l stilll fuck it up somehow.

 I suspect, however, that the realignment of drone compounds will end up being nerf of some sort anyway - either a direct "Well enjoy getting twenty tons of trit for every one ton of anything else" or screwing up the supply side of the economics and causing price crashes.

[Goumindong]

Its very likely that a reduction in the high ends in drone compounds will be a net gain. Remember why high ends are so cheap anyway?

Drone compounds.

What is the individual incentive to do? Produce as much as possible

What happens when everyone produces as much as possible? Prices go down

What happens then when quantity of production is reduced? Prices go up

It should not be hard, especially with the transaction data that CCP has to make this a net gain for the drone regions

[Kovacs]

Whether and to what extent CCP fucks up this mineral rebalance will depend I think in large part on how accurately they can determine the producers demand for those minerals.  I see the potential for disaster in a couple areas.  

A.  The first thing I'd be worried about is the phrase "more accurately reflect the minerals required by mfg."  Chronotis uses this phrase when describing both the drone and the asteroid rebalance.  If he, as I fear he will, uses market activity in each mineral as a proxy for producer demand for them he's going to fuck up.  Fortunately or unfortunately the Eve mineral market is still small enough that the speculative activity in certain minerals has been enough to move the price significantly (HUGELY) independent of the supply and demand of the final products being produced by those minerals.  Depending on what when and where he takes his 'snapshot' to determine the 'minerals required by mfg.' I'm afraid he's going to capture signifcant and misleading speculative market data incorrectly as producer demand.  Unfortunately this is a big fucking deal as the new asteroisd respawn mechanics could cause even a small miscalculation in the ratio of mex/nox/morph per asteroid to lead to enormous effects.  And not just economically, but any imbalance may have widespread political and demographic consequences (cue the recent tech. moon silliness) as well.  For as we've seen through the history of Eve, as in real life, its players tend to follow the money and have a very sophisticated understanding of economic risk/reward.

2.  As this rebalance is aimed at all production it allows CCP to do a bit of social engineering.  It allows the CCP team to revisit past balancing mistakes by putting a $ value to them and redressing them economically.   Given this teams past incompetence in prioritizing and adequately adressing both production and combat imbalances this has me the most worried.

I'm also curious if and how often CCP is going to revisit the asteroid ratios and adjust them to current production practices.  If this proves a dynamic situation similiar to what he alluded to with his ship insurance rebalance then that could open up a whole new area of financial gameplay and speculation.  You could 'play the mineral rebalance' the same way some real world speculators play the Fed. interest rate adjustment.  That sounds interesting to me.  Speaking of the shp insurance rebalance.  The first thing that occurred to me is that if you can determine exogenously the percentage of mineral prices that CCP has determined for a small basket of ships the reimbusement would give you an accurate and possibly 'near realtime' snapshot of the economy's average price per mineral.

[ajax34i]

It should not be hard, especially with the transaction data that CCP has to make this a net gain for the drone regions

Yeah, um, they are adjusting multiple variables (of a somewhat complex system) at the same time.  There IS a chance that they won't have accounted for something, and mess it up.

[Stabs]

Depending on what when and where he takes his 'snapshot' to determine the 'minerals required by mfg.' I'm afraid he's going to capture signifcant and misleading speculative market data incorrectly as producer demand.  

Why would he take a snapshot? If insurance is to reflect the market it needs to be dynamic, based on real time data.

Unfortunately this is a big fucking deal as the new asteroisd respawn mechanics could cause even a small miscalculation in the ratio of mex/nox/morph per asteroid to lead to enormous effects

It sounds like they're not adjusting these values. They're adding Trit and Pyerite to low sec and null sec rocks. In other words where you would now mine Scordite for Trit and Pyerite after this change you might mine new improved Gneiss.

Gneiss is currently:
171 Tritanium
171 Mexallon
343 Isogen
171 Zydrine  per 400 ore

After these changes it might be
342 Tritanium
171 Pyerite
171 Mexallon
343 Isogen
171 Zydrine  per 400 ore

Or something like that.

It's a necessary fix because currently Veldspar and Scordite have been the most lucrative before the ABC null sec rocks.

[Kovacs]

Depending on what when and where he takes his 'snapshot' to determine the 'minerals required by mfg.' I'm afraid he's going to capture signifcant and misleading speculative market data incorrectly as producer demand.  

Why would he take a snapshot? If insurance is to reflect the market it needs to be dynamic, based on real time data.

$160 billion per hour in trades just in Jita.  Obviously only a portion of which is in minerals, but still a realtime second by second running total of the average price per mineral across the entire economy just to ensure proper insurance payouts? I applaud your optimism and faith in the CCP toolset.  I am however at least slightly more skeptical.  Near'ish realtime is about all I'm willing to hope for.

[slog]

In actual WAR! news, Goons lost 14 carriers in Cloud Ring.  It appears our US  prime time fleets 8:00 PM are no match for Cry Havoc and Evoke when they team up together.  This is not surprising considering that we are doing our best to purge our ranks of members.

[Stabs]

@ Kovacs that regional average number that appears when you buy or sell on the market. That seems to update regularly (although not real time). That would be good enough and is a number the system already is generating.

@ Slog Ouch. Were there coordination problems? Is FCing an issue now that Phreeze has left and DBRB seems to lack popular support?

[slog]

@ Kovacs that regional average number that appears when you buy or sell on the market. That seems to update regularly (although not real time). That would be good enough and is a number the system already is generating.

@ Slog Ouch. Were there coordination problems? Is FCing an issue now that Phreeze has left and DBRB seems to lack popular support?

Evoke's POV

Ev0ke POS out of reinforced today in Q-U after being hit by Goons. Timer was bad for Ev0ke so we said we'd come by and lend a hand.

Hostiles arrived in sniper BS, decent gang size, but with a few Ev0ke carriers on the POS they were struggling to put enough dps on the POS to really bring it down. We kept trying to get a good warp-in on them with our dictors but missed a couple times. Finally we managed to get them properly placed and pinned down a good chunk of the sniper fleet.

We took our close range BS group and plopped it down on top of them and started shredding.

Goons decide they can't extract enough of their fleet in time and open up a cyno, dropping in another 8-9 carriers to rep their BS. We try to pop the cyno but don't get it fast enough. However this still doesn't feel unmanagable, so we keep breaking Goon battleships even through the carrier reps until we've now isolated just the carriers on the field.

We call a chimera primary, but even with the POS guns we're struggling to break him. We switch to (boggle) an archon, and he starts to collapse. However right as he dies they open another cyno and even more carriers drop through. 15 Goon carriers now (well ok, archon down, 14...) but it's going to be hard to break all that with subcaps in a timely fashion.

We call for a couple of our motherships to portal in and join us on the POS. 5 hop in and carriers go back to popping one after another. All Goon carriers dead, we sweep the field and head home.

There wasn't a problem FCing that I saw.  Cry Havoc simply has a bigger BS fleet and Capital fleet than Goonwaffe in US prime.

[Stabs]

Ah well, I'm sure you'll bounce back. Thanks for the details.

[slog]

Ah well, I'm sure you'll bounce back. Thanks for the details.

I'm sure we will just kick some more pubbies to make our numbers smaller.  That always helps our fleet size.   

[Reg]

The important thing is that your forums remain pure and pristine.

[Endie]

Die Wolke Ring Generalgouvernement ist Pubbierein.

[Fordel]

You need more Rifters.

[Teleku]

I'm starting to realize that I really need to give up any hope of returning to Eve and make Starcraft 2 my space MMO.