War

[trevorreznik]

so what happened?  the timers could've been for today or tomorrow and i haven't seen any talk anywhere about what's going on in 49-

[Murgos]

Goons failed to get their shit together so GBC & Co have been repping towers all day while being harassed by HAC driveby's and SB wulfpax.

Also, apparently, a POS that wasn't supposed to be passworded somehow became passworded during the night and so Kenny bumped a couple of carriers, who failed to check the message boards, out of the shields and killed em.  4 POS's come out in US prime though so I would expect that tonight those will flip, we'll rep our towers and rf all of Kenny's towers and hope for some more good timers.

Also, The MIttani admitted to not having IRC's stolen stuff.   

[Meester]

Seems Executive Outcomes want their pilots to leave their jumpclones in Period Basis according to a recent CAOD post but surely jump clones can be exterminated by a hostile alliance in control of the outpost? Thats what I thought anyway.

[Gets]

No, they can only  t t  you on getting access to station services once they take the outpost.

[Sir T]

No. They can remove all the enemy medical clones from the station, which get bounced to whatever empire office has the headquarters of the clone's corp. They cant do anything about the jump clones.

However having a jump clone is very limiting as no service in the station can work for you if the people who own the station don't like you. All you can do is buy and sell items and spin your ship. And undock, of course.

[Phildo]

Can't play undock games if you don't have standings with the station owner either.  Pretty much the only thing they could do is leave one PvP ship there, clone into it and hope the insurance hasn't expired.  It's a one-shot tactic.

[Meester]

Well, theres my next idea for the Features and Ideas Discussion forum. Somehow seems not right that you can get rid of someones clones in a station/outpost and not their jump clones.

[setar]

Agree, actually. I am still selling PvP assets out of Period Basis. Got quite there for a while, but lately demand increased again ;-) Think I sold all Claymores and Tempests I had stashed in the area from the MC times, only a couple of faction mods left. Those get stuffed into the CovOps at some point and moved out.

As you can also set up contracts you really only need one clone per corp and station.

[Sir T]

News from the front. ROL decided to siege in 5V and lost a dread for their troubles.

PL got a titan tackled in 49-. In the resulting bout of fisticuffs the Coalition lost a Carrier, and the alliance lost around 3 dreads and 4 carriers. Also a Goon tower was killed in 49-, but the alliance lost at least 2 in return.

({Edit} Ok specificly, kenny lost the tower they had put down to replace a tower they had just killed. They also lost 3 more towers in 49- alongside that. They will probably kill 2 towers today in 49-.)

PL btw apparently cleared the dictor bubbles from the Titan by dropping bombs on it.   

Kenny has decided to do what it does best: spam down towers everywhere in the hope of spamming their way to victory (because actually sieging towers to gain systems is for non-Elite alliances one supposes) and I would guess another reason is to distract people from 49-. They are also spamming R64 moon systems so we can guess their lack of moons is hurting them severely. They did lose the Ark they were using to spam those towers this morning.

Finally, Z-M flipped to KIA sov (meaning that the EXE con sov capital is virtually certain to fall) and Systemic Chaos lost a corp to internal drama as they were sick of being told to get on ops or else, or something. Regardless, massive internal drama = 

http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1066761

[Sir T]

Speaking of massive internal drama, this just got posted on the latest Mittani Tentonhammer article, and its a pretty interesting read

http://forums.tentonhammer.com/showpost.php?p=374264&postcount=8

I thought I would post a reply here as i don't pay my $15 a month anymore for the ability to post on the official eve online forums.

Yes the Mittani made me stop playing EVE, and sir I thank you for it.

The reason why I stopped playing were because of the events that unfolded in march of this year. I was a high ranking officer within the top corp in Ethereal Dawn and I remember the night that we were told, by IRC, that we were going to war.

Here's the thing that isn't really discussed on the EVE forums or anywhere else but it's pretty common knowledge among those who know the drone regions and those that live there. ED is IRC's bitch. IRC says jump, ED says how high. If you believe that IRC leadership are a bunch of idiots with zero skill, ED leader ship is even worse. the thing is with ED is that its leadership does not have a voice. they were afraid to speak up, afraid to stand on their own. the MAJORITY of ED Hated what IRC was doing. When IRC "lost" their stuff your average joe ED pilot was yelling from the rafters that we needed to stop hanging out with IRC because they were going to bring us down kicking and screaming with them, this was in March, ED pilots were VERY vocal about how they wanted nothing more to do with IRC, they didn't want to be in IRC's fight and we all had a good idea we were being lied to. ED leadership ignored us and continued to do whatever IRC told them to do.

You have to understand that 90% of ED does not like IRC. We HATED flying with them. We HATED running ops and CTAs (call to arms) with them. If an IRC FC were leading ED would generally bail out early when the op would get to, and it always did, the point where IRC began fighting with themselves. The only reason we hung out with them and continued to do so was because ED leadership told us to. Czech Lion and Ral were slaves to IRC leadership and no one really knew why. Granted ED didn't have the best PVPers but we had capable FC's and if need be we could have taken out IRC if it got to that point. Essentially we were the meatshields for the eventual russian invasion and we all had a good idea of it.

IRC was jealous of ED. IRC was mad with Goonswarm, IRC didnt' get invited to the parties that ED got invited to and this made IRC jealous. THIS was the real reason behind this conflict. It wasn't the need to expand, ED didn't want to expand we were happy and chipper in our little corner of space. IRC was bitter that they didn't get to help in Delve, that they weren't offered space in Delve. upset that they weren't asked to protect the baby goon titan in Teneferis. it was several things mounting up that IRC wanted to be taken as a "big deal" a "real player". Naturally lies were spread to ensure that the general population of ED and IRC would participate in Oldmas whale hunt. We were told that we needed to expand. We were told that RA wasn't "carrying their weight" among the NAP fest and that the Goons and told us "hey, go ahead and shoot em and take em out, we don't care about them anymore." the MAIN concern among ED and IRC pilots was who's going to punish us for this. ED/IRC pilots were told no one would get mad for what we were about to do and that Goon diplomats gave the thumbs up to it.

obviously that was not the case.

We got all the way to C-J and knocked on the door. we took out a few pos' here and there and heavily defended zz5. IRC had their stuff stolen and that Vent session that night was one to remember. a clearly demoralized and upset Oldma told us we were to pull out of Insmother. ED quit the vent server in disgust. We knew what was going to happen next. We knew that we were going to be hit first and hit hard. My Corp had just put together an egg to deploy an outpost (in XB where it's now in the hands of majesta) and we were discussing on leaving the alliance with our egg to use it as a "bargining chip" to join another alliance. I voted for us to leave but clearly i was in the minority. I knew what was going on and I like to consider myself a well adjusted smart individual. Anyone with half a brain and a good amount of common sense on their shoulders knew what was going on. ED leadership were weak mutes being led by musclebound morons. Ral had RL issues going on so he couldn't focus, Czech is all talk and little brains. the only competent individual in ED was Dain and, understandably, he didn't want to set up and take over. I spoke with him nightly and he was frustrated with what was going on. he was seriously questioning on leaving and quitting the game completely. We dropped that egg reluctantly and on our own. The alliance didn't help us with isk or mining, we got the money and materials to build an outpost in 2 weeks. I left the game shortly before that out of boredom, disgust, and a general "couldn't care less" attitude towards EVE 0.0 alliance gameplay. The Mittani is right. You don't need pilots, or ships, or any of that stuff to take out another alliance. The fighting and pew pew is meaningless in this game. The real game is the messageboards, the eve mails, the guy with a bigger brain and a better vocabulary. The spaceships are just the sidequests to this game. Thus I left, I didn't want to play their EVE. I didn't want to be a part of either the greater Goonswarm or Kenzoku. that's what this game is. It's GS vs KZ, and if you don't play that game you can't play. You can't go back to Empire space after living all your game career in 0.0 because it's boring.

IRC/ED lost because a bruised ego. The "war" should have never happened in the first place.

[trevorreznik]

He doesn't sound like a 'high ranking officer'  as much as a bitter vet, but interesting nonetheless. 

I'm kind of sad to see that there's really no big wars going on besides the stalemated GS+allies vs GKC+allies front

[Fordel]

He doesn't sound like a 'high ranking officer'  as much as a bitter vet, but interesting nonetheless. 

I'm kind of sad to see that there's really no big wars going on besides the stalemated GS+allies vs GKC+allies front

How can there be? All the big players have chosen a side and anyone unknown/small/dumb enough to try and wrestle one of the bears gets crushed in under a week, if that long.

IE: See IRC/ED etc.



You want to break up the stagnation? Find yet another totally external, devoted, cohesive group of players that number in the tens of thousands and get them to try EVE. Helps if they thrive off of drama and griefing.

[Simond]

Haha, a 4chan alliance would be fun to watch...from a distance. 

[Murgos]

Goonswarm and 4chan are fruit of the same branch.

[setar]

Kenny has decided to do what it does best: spam down towers everywhere in the hope of spamming their way to victory (because actually sieging towers to gain systems is for non-Elite alliances one supposes) and I would guess another reason is to distract people from 49-. They are also spamming R64 moon systems so we can guess their lack of moons is hurting them severely. They did lose the Ark they were using to spam those towers this morning.

Might be successful, though; Sov3 seems to be threatened in three R64 systems, potentially reversing the coalition's work of the last two weeks. 49-U is also no longer under threat, with most GS POS now having been removed. I1Y is probably going to be the next system of interest.

[Sir T]

Might be successful, though; Sov3 seems to be threatened in three R64 systems, potentially reversing the coalition's work of the last two weeks. 49-U is also no longer under threat, with most GS POS now having been removed. I1Y is probably going to be the next system of interest.

To my knowlage, there have been 3 maybe 4 replaced. Goons have 7 or 8 left. That's some not most. And The Coalitions work of the past 2 weeks included removing EXE from the map, so I dont think "potentially reversing the coalition's work of the last two weeks" really is a fair way to put things.

Anyway, speaking of I1Y... AAA and Kenny came along in their huge weekend form up on Saturday, tried hitting the jammier with two to one odds in local, then ran away when the jammer was at 75% armour. That's the total amount of success they have managed all weekend. There's only 5 red towers in there with 51% of the moons covered by friendly towers, so good luck to them with that. Kenny did manage to restront a tower this morning for 24 hours meaning it comes out in "Please come save us evil thug!!!" time, again.

And sadly, simply breaking sov wont be enough to claim an R64 moon as towers don't majckly blow up when sov falls. Considering the A-E and Sakht moons are in NPC space and have yet to be claimed back by Kenny, simply having moons in open sky systems does not leave them automatically dead to the "might" of kenny.  K-Y they tried to spam and failed, and Q2- should be secure by tonight and even if it isn't goons have a tower majority in system so it will flip back.

P4- Is probably going to flip, and OGY will probably flip to ROL as well if I an reading the timers right. It is interesting that Kenny seems to be desperate for money and concentrating on R64s. I1Y has little strategic Value beyond its R64 moon, and relative closeness to HED ("Help me Obi Evil Thuggy, you're my only hope.")

Anyway we had a welp tonight apparently. 5 capitals down in unclear circumstances, but from the sounds of it Kenny saw some unsupported Capitals hitting a deathstar, jumped on them with a support/BS gang, then they ran away when our support turned up. Still lost pretty much as much support as we did though albiet their support was waaay more expensive.

[trevorreznik]

i1y is a pretty good staging point for that part of querious, so if it falls then ed- and z-u can be hit more easily.  It's interesting to see the willingness to 51% (or 100% like 9cg's 42 moons) all the querious stations, but it makes a lot of sense to do it.  This aspect of the war reminds me a lot of how the Esoteria conflicts went against SE/Atlas, which is kind of strange since the numbers on each side have ballooned significantly.

[Trigona]

From a northern perspective it seems to me that the southern campaign has stalled slightly.  Period Basis has essentially fallen which was the focus of MM for the past few weeks.  It was good concentrating on TN25 but now that the campaign is over, it's back to Querious

MM got called back to the north on Friday due to ccp stuffing up because of an unexpected dt.  This meant that some new services (known as eggs), we had just placed on a couple of our stations were vulnerable and had to be protected for 24 hrs or run the risk of being perma popped.

The easy fighting down south is over for now and I think everybody knows that Querious is going to be a meat grinder, which is not necessarily something to look forward to. 

[Endie]

There's no mystery at all about the five dead caps: we decided to let a guy with 14 posts run a capital operation for a laugh.  The outcome was pretty much understood from the beginning.  I had half a hope that it would turn out to be a cunning trap for our unsuspecting enemies, and I imagine that they must have suspected the same thing, but actually it was just a pranke vOv

Anyway, although we killed a tower needed to save sov in an R64 system, Kenny did call in their Russian overlords in time for our awful participation (our leadership was away for the weekend in Vegas, no ops were posted etc) to lose us towers in 49- in our prime.

On the 1IY front, I have been on holiday for a week so i might have misunderstood, but I thought that we wer pretty safe there for now.  You're right, Trevor, that we've been ready and able to tower systems up hugely.  I think this is partly due to us being pretty rich, now, for a variety of reasons including, but not limited to, moon income.  But it is also due to the role Querious has explicitly had since it kicked off in March: to act as a buffer and a glacis against attackers while more and more of Delve attains sov 4 (we dropped another tower in the sov 4 1-A constellation, lifting the station count there to four and making it even longer a grind to take).

[Sir T]

Well I have to eat some crow today cause it looks like most if not all the 49- towers were popped last night  

Still it says something that Kenny basically stretched out the tower killing under a cynojammer as long as they could. Considering they have always been utter shit at attacking jammers that makes good sense. Course that means taking 49- will be an utter pain but on the plus side if we want them to completely panic all we have to do is sneeze at their towers there  

Seriously I can expect Kenny participation to go up now that they have a safe place to hide in. Its always been they same with them. rave as buttons under a jammer and once the jammer goes down they hide. I can see the pattern from now on being spam a system in the hope of breaking a jammer while hiding in 49-. If we gear up to attack 49-, they spam 4 systems to distract us. That was the pattern down south, spam like crazy to stop us attacking them. Btw, I don't see GKC taking a single jammer without AAA.

Q2- was saved last night. Kenny and AAA formed up a huge fleet, came 2 jumps out of the system, and then ran off. We then charged them in 49- to defend our towers. We lost of course but we have them such a mauling they were forced to pull BS away from the towers as they were losing so many.

[rand]

Course that means taking 49- will be an utter pain but on the plus side if we want them to completely panic all we have to do is sneeze at their towers there  

Taking 49- is going to more than a 'pain', it's going to be impossible if things continue as they currently are. The only way 49- could be taken is if AAA reset kenzoku and pets and fucked off back to their territories. Even then, they might decide to take 49- for themselves as a buffer to catch.

[Arthur_Parker]

I'm not really seeing how a stalemate is good for Kenny.  They already lost Delve, a substantial number of their pilots will believe they are going to retake it, when/if it becomes obvious that retaking delve is not going to happen any time "soon", I'd expect people to re-evaluate how they want to play the game.

[Endie]

I prefer my less evasive version of Sir T's post: our participation and organisation were poor, Kenny asked for (and got) support from their allies, and we thought it would be funny to let a newbie FC our capitals (it was, for all but the five cap pilots).  Much less hurf-blurf.  Retaking 49- isn't an option right now, but it is a useful tool nonetheless.  As I said, it has served its stated purpose of slowing up the hostiles while we got sov 4 in Delve: aside from three singletons, all of our Delve station constellations are now sov 4, as of yesterday downtime when the two new outposts ticked over in NOL's constellation.  Now, since AAA have made it quite clear that they feel they cannot allow 49- to fall, we have something we can use to tire or distract them (assuming that we stick to that sensible strategy).

Interestingly, AAA dropped a tower in SVM this weekend.  That is in the heart of our sov-4, six-station W-4 constellation, and would be a real end-run strategy if serious.

[setar]

To my knowlage, there have been 3 maybe 4 replaced. Goons have 7 or 8 left. That's some not most. And The Coalitions work of the past 2 weeks included removing EXE from the map, so I dont think "potentially reversing the coalition's work of the last two weeks" really is a fair way to put things.

There were three left, all of which are now dead. That's the first round of 'ringing the bell', got no doubt there will be more rounds of course. Love that strategy, by the way.

We lost of course but we have them such a mauling they were forced to pull BS away from the towers as they were losing so many.

Love it. Reports on our side read exactly the other way around -- that you guys ran for the hills after getting completely whipped around. Ah well, it is about the systems and stations anyway. Agree with Trev that I1Y has great value as a staging point, but it's going to be difficult to take. Also got this feeling that the coalition will benefit more from the resources / pilots now availble from the Delve campaign than we will gain from the EXE pilots that are moving to Querious.

[Endie]

Love it. Reports on our side read exactly the other way around -- that you guys ran for the hills after getting completely whipped around. Ah well, it is about the systems and stations anyway. Agree with Trev that I1Y has great value as a staging point, but it's going to be difficult to take. Also got this feeling that the coalition will benefit more from the resources / pilots now availble from the Delve campaign than we will gain from the EXE pilots that are moving to Querious.

I am sure Sir T meant that it was all about the ~good fights~ ...

But you're right that the bell-ringing strategy in question was horribly implemented this weekend.  It was announced then virtually everyone behind it headed off and left matters hanging.  Bad move.

[setar]

Well, it isn't like you are in a rush. The longer this takes, the more it turns into a grind the less likely it is that Kenny pilots will show up for ops. Actually, I don't know of any party other than GS that is in this for the long haul, and given your roller coaster rides when it comes to participation that's saying something ;)

[trevorreznik]

re-no ops being posted

My biggest beef with GS, and one that ultimately led to getting kicked, was how the leadership/FC dynamic played out.  GS has extremely good applications to help plan ops (notably the POS app), but for a variety of reasons, the FCs that end up leading ops were incredibly non-proactive (is that a word?) in planning them, as they'd instead prefer to wait to be told what to do, typically by a director that wasn't a FC.  It's an institutional failing GS has in that it values FCs so little in the leadership hierarchy, whereas groups like BoB and -A- tend to be run by the FCs.  

Then again, that's also why GS is so successful-the leaders aren't focused on getting fights, as they aren't the ones flying around in ships , they're instead making sure the diplomacy and infrastructure hum along.  

Who's even FCing for you now?  DBRB's been in charge of most ops for 3/4s of a year now, are there many budding guys coming up?  I've seen Val Streth's name mentioned, and am glad he stuck with it-he had a lot of heat on him last year when he was trying to fc but I vouched for him :)

edit-thinking about 'in it for the long haul,' and the '-a- has no stamina' meme, how much has the opinion of -a- changed?  This war's been going on since early November, which is 7 months for -a-, and I don't think many goons expected that to happen.

[Endie]

Re the fcs, I'm sure you'll understand if I don't name the new breed who are up-and-coming, but we have val, jb, and a couple of others like cloricus spotting dbrb frequently, now. Then we have a few like jaro who will fc for a couple of weeks then take a couple of weeks' break. Finally there are ops on the front page by between four and six newer fcs, depending on when in the week it is, with those a mix of pos shot and roaming. We are hugely better off for fcs than at any time for a looong time. Years, in fact.

Re stamina, I think many expected aaa to be gone by now, and that propping up kenny's corpse would have less appeal than it did. Personally, I think that if aaa had stamina and application to match its material resources and sp base we'd have been out of querous and struggling to hold delve by now. We'd certainly not have been able to use the querious campaign as casually as we have while taking pb.

[trevorreznik]

hm, i wonder what changed with the FCing, if anything, that's gotten more people active. 

on stamina, don't forget -a-'s gone over to tenefiris quite a bit as well to fight there, and when that happens, gkc is stuck in a holding pattern at best

[Gets]

http://triumvirate-alliance.com/?a=kill_related&kll_id=3256503

Triumvirate kills 5 faction fitted RZR Motherships and a Carrier. Only took them 160 people to do it 

[Thrawn]

http://triumvirate-alliance.com/?a=kill_related&kll_id=3256503

Triumvirate kills 5 faction fitted RZR Motherships and a Carrier. Only took them 160 people to do it 

Whats the story behind that?

[Meester]

X-Trading Company used to be Mostly Harmless? Got kicked out of the drone regions by ruskies?
I think they are a carebear corp, so losing motherships like that is bound to happen.

[VickeVire]

http://triumvirate-alliance.com/?a=kill_related&kll_id=3256503

Triumvirate kills 5 faction fitted RZR Motherships and a Carrier. Only took them 160 people to do it 

Whats the story behind that?

You warp a mom to a station with hostiles on it... then warp more mom's to help the first one At least thats how the story goes

[Endie]

Throw in the (senior razor sourced) rumour that one or more of the ms pilots podded themselves without sufficient clones and you hace added just a bit of extra spice.

[Fordel]

Why and How are all these terrible people getting these mega ships?