Why do we wait for the next MMO?

[rk47]

I keep asking myself that question or some people asked me that question when I mention to them 'I'm waiting for either AoC or War'.
My reply would usually be:
'I dunno, I like that 'semi-permanent' feel of the genre, like I'm really in a ever changing world y'know; would love to play a part in it'

Sure, we all get bored of our current MMO at some point (I hit raid cock block in WoW content, so I decided after killing 10k clefthoofs for my epic crafts to bail out while I'm 'happily purpled') after achieving our 'goals', but what make us 'want a new one?' WoW didn't give anything for me to 'change' in its world. The plaguelands continues to be plagued etc.

Isn't single player with some co-op or competitive multi available? Counterstrike, TF, Dawn of War, Starcraft even.  Are we still going crazy(positive kind) over long term grind? I don't want to admit it, but I think I do. I secretly wanted 'Grind' something that others try to achieve, and somehow you're in this rat-race with the cheese at the end of it, be it 'shinys, mount, keep etc'. You can't really lose, but winning is quite demanding (1st 60 zomg? PVP domination? 1st Gruul kill?) but had an effect (unlike Xbox Achievements).

[slog]

I keep asking myself that question or some people asked me that question when I mention to them 'I'm waiting for either AoC or War'.
My reply would usually be:
'I dunno, I like that 'semi-permanent' feel of the genre, like I'm really in a ever changing world y'know; would love to play a part in it'

Sure, we all get bored of our current MMO at some point (I hit raid cock block in WoW content, so I decided after killing 10k clefthoofs for my epic crafts to bail out while I'm 'happily purpled') after achieving our 'goals', but what make us 'want a new one?' WoW didn't give anything for me to 'change' in its world. The plaguelands continues to be plagued etc.

Isn't single player with some co-op or competitive multi available? Counterstrike, TF, Dawn of War, Starcraft even.  Are we still going crazy(positive kind) over long term grind? I don't want to admit it, but I think I do. I secretly wanted 'Grind' something that others try to achieve, and somehow you're in this rat-race with the cheese at the end of it, be it 'shinys, mount, keep etc'. You can't really lose, but winning is quite demanding (1st 60 zomg? PVP domination? 1st Gruul kill?) but had an effect (unlike Xbox Achievements).

You might. I don't.

I have been an early beta tester for DAOC, Jumpgate, AC, AO, blah blah blah.  In those days, once you were in one beta you just listed your credentials and you got in the next one.  After about 5 years of this, I started to move from the "ZOMG BETA" to "meh. If I can't play it, it doesn't exist.

I know very little about WAR, AOC, Jumpgate Evolution, and the next big MMO now.  Who cares?  Most of them will suck. 

World of Warcraft is a great game.   Lot's to do at the max cap.  If something better comes along, I might check it out 6 months after release.   

[Venkman]

I'm with Slog. I used to be all ga ga over the next beta. Nowadays I don't even bother installing half the ones I've been invited to. The genre has gotten big enough now I can carve out my own little preferences within. I still will bounce around, just to feed my generalist needs. But if I'm happy with what I'm paying for, I don't feel the call of the beta anymore.

Having said that, I'm in two betas now that are providing a LOT more fun (and hope for the future) than anything currently live 

But my life has also changed considerably since my first steps into UO. Back then I was just dating my soon-wife, no kids, no house, no real responsibilities and living high on the hog with a good job and doing freelance.

Fast forward nine years and I can't afford even a bit of the time I could invest back then. And given the string of derivatives that have come in that time, even as the genre is evolving (like I said somewhere else, it's not a huge leap from WoW to Maplestory), I'm just not that interested in investing time in yet another stats-based derivative fantasy game when the most polished one the world's ever seen is already out now.

Unless it's offering something different than EQ with a bigger budget.

[Hutch]

Having said that, I'm in two betas now that are providing a LOT more fun (and hope for the future) than anything currently live 

Talk. Can you at least say which games?

[Jade Falcon]

For me personally I could care less about the MM part of mmo. Over the last few years single player games have gotten shorter and shorter where I'm blowing 50-75 bucks on a game I get from 20 to 30 hours out of then shelve it.The current release of mmos seems to be about 2-3 years apart leaving me plenty of time to get tired bored of the current world lore in what ever mmo I'm playing and time to look for whatever is on the horizon.

[Slyfeind]

For me personally I could care less about the MM part of mmo. Over the last few years single player games have gotten shorter and shorter where I'm blowing 50-75 bucks on a game I get from 20 to 30 hours out of then shelve it.The current release of mmos seems to be about 2-3 years apart leaving me plenty of time to get tired bored of the current world lore in what ever mmo I'm playing and time to look for whatever is on the horizon.

That's interesting, because I shudder at games that take longer than 20 hours to complete. It seems a lot of people prefer RPGs that are shorter and broader experiences, rather than one big long one.

Except in MMOs, I like really slow and endless grinds. When I got back into EQ, it was with the intent of playing a solo character, a wood elf druid, and run around and experience as much of the stuff I missed before. I felt like I was levelling up too fast, because I had to skip whole zones as I outgrew them.

I just like to sit and think and feel like I'm part of the world. Waiting forever to regain mana and health...that forces me to immerse myself into the world. I'm sure I'm the only person in the world who feels that way, because for most people, the lure of MAX POWER is too great, and everything is an obstacle to MAX POWER. So...the mainstream game is like WOW, where you zip through the content like shit through a goose, and my ideal game is a niche within that, where we get to sit around and pat ourselves on the back that we made level 10 in a month's time...but gosh the sunlight through the trees sure was nice along the way!

[Signe]

I would probably pay for a good single player game that gave me monthly content patches.  I would probably even pay for expansions for it.  Geez, it seems I'll pay for anything!

[Arrrgh]

Having said that, I'm in two betas now that are providing a LOT more fun (and hope for the future) than anything currently live 

Talk. Can you at least say which games?

He obviously submitted a killer video and got into the Hello Kitty Online beta.

[Jade Falcon]

I would probably pay for a good single player game that gave me monthly content patches.  I would probably even pay for expansions for it.  Geez, it seems I'll pay for anything!

I'm surprised more studios haven't tried this.Is it really so expensive to do mini down loadable content after the engine and world have been completed?I know Bioware tried that route but it never seemed to catch on with their module releases.

[Viin]

That's interesting, because I shudder at games that take longer than 20 hours to complete. It seems a lot of people prefer RPGs that are shorter and broader experiences, rather than one big long one.

Except in MMOs, I like really slow and endless grinds. When I got back into EQ, it was with the intent of playing a solo character, a wood elf druid, and run around and experience as much of the stuff I missed before. I felt like I was levelling up too fast, because I had to skip whole zones as I outgrew them.

Hmm, interesting. I hate grinding beyond some small semblance of it, but I am very much an explorer when I have the time. I much prefer an 'open' mmo that lets me advance my skills but never blocks me from content. If EQ blocks you from previous zones because of your level, that sucks.

I'd much much rather have everything open to me, even if that means I can get totally stomped by wandering my level 10 char into a level 50 area.

[schild]

Why do we wait for the next MMO?

Because we're fucking idiots.

[Aez]

I'm playing Hellgate:London a couple of hours a weak with 2 friends.  You can pay for episodic content but it's a not a really good deal.   It's 3 months of subscription (10$) for every update.  I'm paying it, it's not that much.  It's better than 50$ for a single player game that I will never finish.

Why are we waiting for the next mmorpg?  It sounds so simple to make a good one, we can't believe they will all sucks - forever.  EvE got it right after all.  I'm waiting for a real dynamic world with random quests.  I won't even try AoC and WO opoen beta.  I know those games are not for me.

[Aez]

Why do we wait for the next MMO?

Because we're fucking idiots.

I was drinking coffee, idiot.

[SuperPopTart]

Why do we wait for the next MMO?

Because we're fucking idiots.

Much as I hate to do it, I have to agree with the masked man over there.

We are idiots.

Personally, I keep waiting for the next MMO because I believe a lot of what we have to play now is just the tip of the iceberg in terms of what can actually be produced.

I think that when you start playing these games you have this incredible wow factor of just exploration and expectation and everything is amazing and new and different. The "Oooh Shiny" of it kicks into overdrive and so you are in this blind spot of MMO Childhood.

Then, once you get into it for a few years, you become reflective, branching out to outlying MMO's and discovering some of the things that should have been or could have been done - then the hopefulness begins about what COULD be coming up on the horizon.

Finally you get to where some of us currently are now - the been there done that scenario - we know what exists, and yeah, most of us have played it in some form or fashion but meh, to go out there and search for some glimmer of what we believe makes a great game is just too taxing. We've been through the mill and so we'll just wait.. and continue to either play what we have become accustomed to or just sit back and not play anything at all.

Different dynamic with FPS games. I'm personally still waiting for the great merge of the FPS and the quality MMO.


Then you wait years upon years and become horribly disappointed in most of what's out there.

[Signe]

I just don't understand why the industry can't keep up with our fickleness.

[SuperPopTart]

I just don't understand why the industry can't keep up with our fickleness.

You and I are women though..

Sorry, GRRRLS

We bleed fickle.

Wanna play internet scrabble with me?

[Triforcer]

I have a frontier mentality about this.  I have played multiple MMOs that I really liked (UO, EQ, WoW) and I always leave after a year or a year and a half.  And it isn't because something new is added that sucks or that I get bored, necessarily- its just that things become ESTABLISHED.  Eleventy billion expansions.  Fun world PvP turned into tiered esport.  Gear disparities increasing dramatically.  Leveling with alts instead of other people exploring the world for the first time. 

I expect that I will have a blast with WAR when the first few sieges rage and the server is abuzz about sacking the Empire's capital for the first time.  After a year or 18 months, when everything is old hat and mapped out, I'll move on.  No MMO could ever overcome this for me, because its age is by definition the problem.   

[Venkman]

Only in this genre is spending 18 months on a game a bad thing  People get bored and leave. Most companies don't wipe their databases ever, so play, leave, come back, at whim.

[Hoax]

Because I don't finish single player games, I hate learning the right path or the right pattern to beat some dumb level filled w/ AI's.  In fact, I really dont like being pitted against AI anything.  MMO's are for when I don't have X people in my living room to play games with.  Also I am constantly imaging how cool a mmo could be, like remember after the tomogachi craze they came out with virtual pets that could fight each other?  I thought that was the fuckign coolest idea ever.  But you needed to have a gajillion people w/ the robot pets and all playing by the rules with them...  The idea of everyone knowing about this one game, and it being like The Game, is cool to me.  Virtual worlds.  Sandbox.  The metaverse.  That shit is just. Really cool.  That's why I keep thinking about MMO's.

I stopped beta testing a long while ago, I am not excited at all about AoC/WAR & I don't expect to play either beyond the free month.

[Draegan]

Because I don't finish single player games, I hate learning the right path or the right pattern to beat some dumb level filled w/ AI's.  In fact, I really dont like being pitted against AI anything.  MMO's are for when I don't have X people in my living room to play games with.  Also I am constantly imaging how cool a mmo could be, like remember after the tomogachi craze they came out with virtual pets that could fight each other?  I thought that was the fuckign coolest idea ever.  But you needed to have a gajillion people w/ the robot pets and all playing by the rules with them...  The idea of everyone knowing about this one game, and it being like The Game, is cool to me.  Virtual worlds.  Sandbox.  The metaverse.  That shit is just. Really cool.  That's why I keep thinking about MMO's.

I stopped beta testing a long while ago, I am not excited at all about AoC/WAR & I don't expect to play either beyond the free month.

I just lost.  Damnit.

[Slyfeind]

Different dynamic with FPS games. I'm personally still waiting for the great merge of the FPS and the quality MMO.

It's going to take a few more DDOs before we get that. It'll come eventually, but who wants to fund the next Planetside? Eek.

Meanwhile, Half-Life 2 is doing just fine with their downloadable episodes, while Neverwinter Nights isn't. I'd guess that NWN is easy to build from, and there's a lot of killer mods out there, so no need to pay for premium modules. HL2 take a lot more time and effort.

[rk47]

I hate DDO & NWN purely because D&D mechanics suck when taken to real time. Just look at Heroes of might and Magic or Temple of Elemental Evil, one is a strat the other is classic hack and slash. If TOEE had went Real time with pause crap that NWN series insisted is the right way, it would've sucked bad.

If Troika hadn't went bankrupt, patched all the bugs away and released more TOEE modules , I think it'd sell well and get rid of this 'Real time is realistic' mentality we have to suffer in single player games. In Multiplayer or MMOs, I don't mind real time, because there's only ME to control, not 6 but it did not have to follow the silly dice stuff or make it mandatory for people to 'follow certain builds' or be fucked 3 levels into the game.

[Tebonas]

I don't.

Couldn't care less about the next MMO, really.

[SuperPopTart]

Different dynamic with FPS games. I'm personally still waiting for the great merge of the FPS and the quality MMO.

It's going to take a few more DDOs before we get that. It'll come eventually, but who wants to fund the next Planetside? Eek.

Meanwhile, Half-Life 2 is doing just fine with their downloadable episodes, while Neverwinter Nights isn't. I'd guess that NWN is easy to build from, and there's a lot of killer mods out there, so no need to pay for premium modules. HL2 take a lot more time and effort.

I only played Planetside in passing and for about five minutes. I never looked back. It's funny that you mention HL2 because I envision that being somewhat like what the merged FPS and MMO would be. I currently play HL2DM and host a HL2DM: CTF server and I -never- get tired of playing it. Of course if you add a level grind.. that would probably change ;-)

[Slyfeind]

I hate DDO & NWN purely because D&D mechanics suck when taken to real time. Just look at Heroes of might and Magic or Temple of Elemental Evil, one is a strat the other is classic hack and slash. If TOEE had went Real time with pause crap that NWN series insisted is the right way, it would've sucked bad.

Yeah, it's weird. I wouldn't say NWN is real-time, nor is it turn-based, but some weird mish-mash where it's turn-based but repeats your turn without you doing anything, or real time but everybody takes turns. In real time. Or something. DDO on the other hand makes me think of Ultima 9. I don't think it's good or bad, just the same thing with different mechanics.

I only played Planetside in passing and for about five minutes. I never looked back. It's funny that you mention HL2 because I envision that being somewhat like what the merged FPS and MMO would be. I currently play HL2DM and host a HL2DM: CTF server and I -never- get tired of playing it. Of course if you add a level grind.. that would probably change ;-)

I agree, and I don't know why. HL2 supports such shallow gameplay, but it feels like an immersive world. I'm almost positive it's the art direction, because there's something so evocative about run-down urban sprawls. It speaks to the kid in us. So what if we can only shoot guns, break things, and throw garbage? It's in the empty lots and warehouses of our youth.

[Montague]

Why do we wait for the next MMO?

In the vain hope that one of the new games will bring back the sense of "man this is awesome!" that we experienced in one of our past MMO's (even if only briefly), back when we weren't cynical fucks that call killing more than 5 mobs "grinding". We're waiting for someone to pull the curtain back over the Wizard of Oz but just haven't figured out it's not going to happen yet, and if it does somehow happen it won't last.

[Jayce]

To my time-starved perspective, I have to actually resist the temptation to care about new games.  There's just so much out there you can really have a full-time job just keeping up with them.

The ones I do play, I usually get sucked into after hearing endless information about them, almost against my will.  If I read up on every new and upcoming game, I'd never have time to actually play one.

[Simond]

I hate DDO & NWN purely because D&D mechanics suck when taken to real time. Just look at Heroes of might and Magic or Temple of Elemental Evil, one is a strat the other is classic hack and slash. If TOEE had went Real time with pause crap that NWN series insisted is the right way, it would've sucked bad.

Just like Baldur's Gate, amirite? 

[WayAbvPar]

I used the Baldur's Gate autopauses to make the combat turn-based (at least the tougher fights). Am I the only one? The D&D combat system cries out for turn-based play.

[Lantyssa]

I used the Baldur's Gate autopauses to make the combat turn-based (at least the tougher fights). Am I the only one? The D&D combat system cries out for turn-based play.

I did, too.  Since I was playing a thief, I frequently left my party at the edge of the map as well.

Their implementation of the D&D ruleset was not the reason I played that game.

[SuperPopTart]

I hate DDO & NWN purely because D&D mechanics suck when taken to real time. Just look at Heroes of might and Magic or Temple of Elemental Evil, one is a strat the other is classic hack and slash. If TOEE had went Real time with pause crap that NWN series insisted is the right way, it would've sucked bad.

Yeah, it's weird. I wouldn't say NWN is real-time, nor is it turn-based, but some weird mish-mash where it's turn-based but repeats your turn without you doing anything, or real time but everybody takes turns. In real time. Or something. DDO on the other hand makes me think of Ultima 9. I don't think it's good or bad, just the same thing with different mechanics.

I only played Planetside in passing and for about five minutes. I never looked back. It's funny that you mention HL2 because I envision that being somewhat like what the merged FPS and MMO would be. I currently play HL2DM and host a HL2DM: CTF server and I -never- get tired of playing it. Of course if you add a level grind.. that would probably change ;-)

I agree, and I don't know why. HL2 supports such shallow gameplay, but it feels like an immersive world. I'm almost positive it's the art direction, because there's something so evocative about run-down urban sprawls. It speaks to the kid in us. So what if we can only shoot guns, break things, and throw garbage? It's in the empty lots and warehouses of our youth.

And there's the sound of the gun as it shoots out towards your target, blowing them backwards against a wall and watching them fall into a slumped heap of skin and bone..

Or something like that.