War

[Endie]

Think we are done for now. 3 of our POS reinforced, 60 hostiles reinforced, some of them kited. Happy repping.

To be scrupulously fair, an awful lot of the reinforced towers are smalls, which only take a 1/4 of the repping.  Now, of course, it's our slice of the day, and we have a decent fleet ensuring that you get to waste a Monday repping stuff.

And to those who are talking about the tedium of repping stuff, it is slightly less of a problem now that more and more of us in carriers are training up triage: a carrier in triage reps a phenomenal amount per minute.  You just need system control, or stupid amounts of cojones...

[setar]

Not only that, but my guess is that TRI will lick its wounds for a couple of days, enabling RAWR and friends to come back for a bit. While they did an amazing job if current numbers hold up (60 losses for about 40 kills) they do not yet have the deep pockets or the logistics that NC started to focus on after the Northern Campaign. And despite a lot unrest among the rank and file (or was that the riffraff?) leadership made it clear that they want to see this fight in Querious to the end: until Kenny disbands.

Scimitar and Guardian maxed out. At least I'll have something to do for the foreseeable future.

[Trigona]

I was in that epic slug fest up north and even though Tri got hammered, they fought with honour and with as much bravery as you're ever likely to see in an internet space game.  Lag was bad but NC seemed to cope a lot better with it than Tri, no doubt our experience down south helped a lot in that respect.  In the aftermath of the fight, where about 60 Tri caps and 40 NC caps went down, there were so many abandoned drones on the battle field that it looked like a snow storm.  For a lot of the fight I was close to our POS and couldn't see the tower or any of the mods due to the sheer number of combatants - it was truly epic.

I think the more truthful amongst us acknowledge that Tri got blobbed to oblivion, they are excellent PvPers but they have to expect a massive response when they take out our high end moons.  Nevertheless Tri didn't hide in a station, they came out and gave it a go, something that Executive Outcomes should have done in Period Basis.  For Exe to lose sov 4 systems without a fight is shameful.

I guess we have to go back south now.  If the goons want to see us get keener they should probably stop talking about child sex on TS and turn up in serious numbers.  It's bullshit  knowing that we're in a meat grinder fight in Querious with many many goons ratting and plexing in Delve.  Wake up goons, if you can't hold Querious, where do you think they're heading for next?

[Simond]

Well, bearing in mind that AAA thinks that the NC are also on the short list of "People who want to invade Catch ASAP"...who knows?
No, really - not only do they think GS want to abandon the best region in the game for one of the shittiest, they're convinced that the NC want to do the exact same thing.

[Predator Irl]

Well, bearing in mind that AAA thinks that the NC are also on the short list of "People who want to invade Catch ASAP"...who knows?
No, really - not only do they think GS want to abandon the best region in the game for one of the shittiest, they're convinced that the NC want to do the exact same thing.

Who in their right mind would want to invade catch? I think its fair to say most people on both sides would prefer the boring POS warfare to be over at this stage, not to mind dragging it on to another region. Once Kenny are dead I think half of Eve will go inactive, the other half will go back to whatever it was they were doing before all this crap started.

[Endie]

Well, bearing in mind that AAA thinks that the NC are also on the short list of "People who want to invade Catch ASAP"...who knows?
No, really - not only do they think GS want to abandon the best region in the game for one of the shittiest, they're convinced that the NC want to do the exact same thing.

Well, Blaster Worm and ET tell their members that everyone wants to steal their space: I don't imagine that the average AAA member is any more informed than the average member of most alliances - especially the more top-down ones - as to the real state of affairs, especially when a language barrier means that they rely on translations for their sources.  Scavok's troll only helped add fuel to that particular fire.

[trevorreznik]

well the strange thing is that most -a- want catch to get invaded so they won't have to go very far to have a fight.  I was going to argue a bit with some of the previous posts in here about alliances wanting fights vs space, but I do think that GS is one of the few alliances where the member level prioritizes winning strategic moons/space over getting fun fights.  Leadership of every alliance prioritizes that , but most members from what I can tell would rather just fly around and shoot at shit.  Even most Goons are that way, but they have a deeper respect for overall winning, probably because of how handicapped goonswarm was in game for so long playing SP/t2 catchup.

[setar]

Oh please, guys. Don't play the 'ET has to keep his members motivated' card. Fact is, most folks in -A- like the PVP aspect of the game quite a bit. TCF dislikes us, Razor made lots of threatening noises, and do you really want me to go over all the posts from Fred0 and others stating 'you are next once Kenny is gone'?

Yeah, we all know it might never happen as everyone will be burnt out by the war, but as a matter of fact right now Kenny is useful to keeping everyone busy on that side of the map. Why would you give that up if everyone benefits from the situation?


Edit: By the way -

Now, of course, it's our slice of the day, and we have a decent fleet ensuring that you get to waste a Monday repping stuff.

that didn't happen, it seems? At least nothing showing up as reinforced for us?

[Jayce]

From Blaster Worm (AAA) (may have been in Russian originally)

Can we leave BOB? ONE WEEK AND BOB WILL BE SMASHED! Two weeks - and xdx+ra+NC will occupy Tenerifes. Three weeks and goons+NC will start sieging our weak protected Catch. TCF+homeless from Curse will siege F4. And who will be fight alongside with us? Stainwagon? Yes.. +150BS. ROL? 10BS + 20 caps. AND THAT'S ALL. How many time naptrain will need to tears up us? One month.

Yeah, right.  Notwithstanding Scavok's troll on shitheap, we have the best space in the game.  Why would we want Catch too?

Also why would AAA lose Tenerifis to xDeathx if they are no longer occupied in Querious?

[eldaec]

Oh please, guys. Don't play the 'ET has to keep his members motivated' card. Fact is, most folks in -A- like the PVP aspect of the game quite a bit. TCF dislikes us, Razor made lots of threatening noises, and do you really want me to go over all the posts from Fred0 and others stating 'you are next once Kenny is gone'?

I really can't see it. Kenny are the only group who need more space at the moment.

Goons had a hard enough time giving away Period Basis, and failed to find anyone willing to plant towers in Querious.

AAA might get a bit of bother in whatever territory RA want, but that would be about all.


You'd get roaming gangs blowing shit up, but most of the coalition would set each other neutral and raid each other's space rather than schelp half way across the galaxy just to irritate AAA.

[setar]

But the point is: we are having fun during the attack. Without additional numbers (such as Kenny) or excellent allies (SE/Coven and others) this would be a very difficult assault. I don't think we care about the territory, but we get to shoot Goonies. Well. Mostly we get to shoot POS, I suppose, but in theory ;-)

[rand]

You enjoy shooting pos?

[Predator Irl]

But the point is: we are having fun during the attack. Without additional numbers (such as Kenny) or excellent allies (SE/Coven and others) this would be a very difficult assault. I don't think we care about the territory, but we get to shoot Goonies. Well. Mostly we get to shoot POS, I suppose, but in theory ;-)

I don't see the fun in POS warfare, maybe Im missing something v0v. Personally, I hope when Kenny finally dies we don't invade catch and we probably won't, we have more than enough space as it is.

I would much rather see some real PVP between -A- and Goons shooting the hell out of each other in small to medium gangs and back to actually playing Eve. It would be a dumb move on Goons part to try take catch with our allies and be surrounded by blues at all angles, who the hell would we shoot? This blobbing shit thats going on is just a waste of everyones time and effort. I'm in it for the long haul but tbh, the sooner its over, the better.

[setar]

You enjoy shooting pos?

It's part of the game. If it has an impact on the larger political landscape (and we get to kill a few capitals along the way) then yes. It certainly didn't stop you from griefing BOB out of Delve for four weeks, so I'm not sure what are you aiming at. So far it's been 'why are you helping Kenny?!'. The NC is trying the 'we can offer you peace if you stop fighting us in Querious' approach. 'You do not like this aspect of the game anyway' is novel, but that hasn't stopped any large-scale 0.0 war so far.

[eldaec]

I would much rather see some real PVP between -A- and Goons shooting the hell out of each other in small to medium gangs and back to actually playing Eve.

I'm pretty sure this is what would actually happen if Kenny would just die.

I see why Thug wants to continue the war, that's about ego; I see why Molle wants to continue the war, it's the only way he stays relevant. But I really can't see what's in it for anyone else.

But truth is, the sooner Kenny just shut up and die, with members finding a home in other parts of ASSCAKES; the sooner we can all find opportunities to shoot each other, rather than shooting POS.

[trevorreznik]

small-medium gang warfare is a pipedream, the only way to get a pretty fun fight in eve is to reinforce other people's poses and fight them during a timezone overlap (or an alarmclock)

[Trigona]

Small, to medium gang warfare is easily accomplished imo, as long as the people you fight don't have territorial ambitions. 

Tri for example regularly sends small gangs into MM territory, ganking ratters, miners and industrialists.  This is really good for us because it keeps the care bears on their toes and gives the PvPers a target, we only go the blob when Tri crosses the line and hurts our high ends etc.  If our PvPers want a fight, a small to medium fleet will find one, a fleet of 200 BS heavy ships will just see people dock up at NPC stations and sit us out.

[Slayerik]

Small, to medium gang warfare is easily accomplished imo, as long as the people you fight don't have territorial ambitions. 

Tri for example regularly sends small gangs into MM territory, ganking ratters, miners and industrialists.  This is really good for us because it keeps the care bears on their toes and gives the PvPers a target, we only go the blob when Tri crosses the line and hurts our high ends etc.  If our PvPers want a fight, a small to medium fleet will find one, a fleet of 200 BS heavy ships will just see people dock up at NPC stations and sit us out.

This. In all my years playing Eve, i have never had a problem finding small-medium gang fights up in the North. You roam somewhere, eventually you kill a few ratters and people form up a defense. It all depends on what you want to do with your time.

[setar]

I am with Trevor on this one. What you are describing is not mutual, small-scale PVP, but being entertained by a non-threatening entity. Sure, that's fun and keeps the carebears on their toes, but the minute anything gets serious most alliances blob up and squish the aggressor. Ask CELES, TRI Mk I to II, and a huge number of other corps.

FIX and IAC had a great arrangement going on for the longest time that mirrors what you describe quite closely. Unfortunately some entity decided that they had to get rid of BOB which was the end of that, as mid-sized PvP turned into POS warfare, griefing and blobs. As an Ex-FIXian you'll have to excuse me for not being too sympathetic about those complaints ;)

[rand]

I1Y is lost

[Predator Irl]

I am with Trevor on this one. What you are describing is not mutual, small-scale PVP, but being entertained by a non-threatening entity. Sure, that's fun and keeps the carebears on their toes, but the minute anything gets serious most alliances blob up and squish the aggressor.

So whats this you -A- guys do in providence? Never heard of a POS falling there too recently!

FIX and IAC had a great arrangement going on for the longest time that mirrors what you describe quite closely. Unfortunately some entity decided that they had to get rid of IAC which was the end of that.

Fixed that for you!

[WindupAtheist]

So goons are losing now? 

[Endie]

I1Y is lost

Well, as has been mentioned, there is always the outlandish option that Goons and their allies kill towers, too vOv

So goons are losing now? 

Tricky one to call, to be honest.  We're certainly outnumbered, and only control one timezone to the opposition's two, but we're richer than hell and Goon login patterns are cyclical.  I'm confident that Delve is ours and, aside from losing the odd singleton, liable to stay that way.  But Querious is slooowly being won by the opposition.  Last night, for instance, we drove off Kenny's first attack on I1Y- and defended ED-, but when they brought Russians from a variety of alliances in the morning we were outnumbered by about 5:3 in I1Y- at the point when we had to call it off, as it got towards 0330 or so on the east coast.

I'm pretty sanguine, personally: it's nowhere near as concerning as it was in Feyth for a bit, or when Bob were in Tenerifis and Detorid.  And there's some interesting stuff on the way, too, that I'm looking forward to.  But we're definitely in a holding pattern for now.

[Slayerik]

I am with Trevor on this one. What you are describing is not mutual, small-scale PVP, but being entertained by a non-threatening entity. Sure, that's fun and keeps the carebears on their toes, but the minute anything gets serious most alliances blob up and squish the aggressor. Ask CELES, TRI Mk I to II, and a huge number of other corps.

FIX and IAC had a great arrangement going on for the longest time that mirrors what you describe quite closely. Unfortunately some entity decided that they had to get rid of BOB which was the end of that, as mid-sized PvP turned into POS warfare, griefing and blobs. As an Ex-FIXian you'll have to excuse me for not being too sympathetic about those complaints ;)

Blobbing blobbers blob. Shocking!

As a roamer, you just go somewhere else. Life is good when based outta Gurista's sov!

[Meester]

Seems to me at the moment Goons and co don't know what they are doing. Seems they must learn to deal with the AAA coalition before they can drive KenZoku out of Querious.

Although I wonder if AAA will kill KenZoku themselves  - install KenZoku in Querious just so they can wipe them out.

[Endie]

Seems to me at the moment Goons and co don't know what they are doing. Seems they must learn to deal with the AAA coalition before they can drive KenZoku out of Querious.

Although I wonder if AAA will kill KenZoku themselves  - install KenZoku in Querious just so they can wipe them out.

To be honest, I think we're pretty aware of that necessity: when the Russians are not here then Kenny are easily dealt with in all timezones (and until ten days ago, while the Russians were elsewhere, this is what was happening).

[trevorreznik]

I am with Trevor on this one. What you are describing is not mutual, small-scale PVP, but being entertained by a non-threatening entity. Sure, that's fun and keeps the carebears on their toes, but the minute anything gets serious most alliances blob up and squish the aggressor.

So whats this you -A- guys do in providence? Never heard of a POS falling there too recently!

The biggest fights against Prov guys were due to poses.  When poses weren't involved there were some smaller fights, but those mostly consisted of running around their systems in t2 cruisers and hoping that they'd form up some battlecruisers to fight back, which isn't really a big step up from ganking ravens in belts. If that's your idea of small gang pvp, that's fine, but mine is more of gangs of t2 cruisers beating on each other.  Sadly, due to tackling mechanics, when said gangs do run into each other, nothing happens because all the tacklers get popped and there's very little way to get more than a few kills for either side.

POS warfare at least gives something to fight over, and sometimes to try risky moves due to the importance of the poses.  Small gang never has this happen unless a ms or titan is tackled and things escalate from there.

[Thrawn]

POS warfare at least gives something to fight over, and sometimes to try risky moves due to the importance of the poses.  Small gang never has this happen unless a ms or titan is tackled and things escalate from there.

So we just need to work out a secret deal between a few titan pilots where they agreed to get tackled regularly but the opposing side always lets them escape at the last second.  Just think of all the battles that would go down! 

[Predator Irl]

Seems to me at the moment Goons and co don't know what they are doing. Seems they must learn to deal with the AAA coalition before they can drive KenZoku out of Querious.

So what you are saying is that we should just attack AAA now in catch and let KIA and Zaf kill Kenny... hmmm good idea!

[trevorreznik]

Seems to me at the moment Goons and co don't know what they are doing. Seems they must learn to deal with the AAA coalition before they can drive KenZoku out of Querious.

So what you are saying is that we should just attack AAA now in catch and let KIA and Zaf kill Kenny... hmmm good idea!

well the plan for a while was to have xdx/ra/tcf/possibly more of the nc (tcf is in the nc) hit tenefiris and bring -a- over there.  that did happen and during that time period basis got secured, so if tri gets dealt with for the 30th time and the nc+russians come down to tenefiris/wherever again, that may be what's needed to kick gkc out of querious

this is especially true if iron/mh/pure can be cajoled into coming, despite their failings they can still field capitals and that's all that matters

[Koyochi]

Bit of drone region news : the past 4 weeks were quiet intensive for ED-IRC, with both RA and NC performing separate attacks/invasions. Solar fleet became involved too, but only against the NC attacks. Majestica Empire has since a few days halted their invasion , abandoned their towers in drone regions, and retreated back to the north. The brave people of the drone regions are rejoicing, but don't expect things to become easy now.

[setar]

Seems BOB has POS majority in I1Y. Focus is now most likely going to be on ED- which would be the third system to suffer from a logistics snafu.

[Trigona]

Putting losing Sov in 1Iy to a logistics snafu is imo gilding the lily.  How can a system with Sov 3 and a jb fall so easily?  49.....1Iy.... I'm starting to see a pattern. 

Today at 22.00 Eve time  I logged into 1Iy to find 500 odd people in system, the overwhelming majority being red, how can this be?  I logged on after work about 8 hrs later to find 5 or so goons doing some ninja POS warfare with the other 40 blues in fleet chillin as essentially there was nothing useful they could do.  At this point I took my Oneiros out of system and went back to 9C.  Where are the goons?  I'm starting to think that if this continues, Querious will fall quite quickly and then it's on to Delve.  No alliance holds space in 0.0 because they deserve to, they hold it because of the determination of their members. 

I've been reading the SA forums where people are explaining that the goons do what they want, when they want and that grinding POS warfare doesn't interest them, thus the low turn out.  Well they won't have to worry about POS warfare soon if they don't pull their fingers out.  I want to see 200 goon dreads in 1Iy alongside 3 or 4 Titans, with appropriate support, kick the crap out of Kenny and retake the system. 

Kenny was able to hold NOL against a mighty offensive, leading everyone to say that a Sov 3 system defended by Titans was essentially unconquerable and yet 2 x Sov 3 systems in Querious have fallen.  The goons need to get real or start looking at real estate in empire.   In one alliance I was in they used to shoot blue ratters found during a mandatory operation, well perhaps that's a bit severe, but there are way too many goon bludgers getting rich in Delve who have to be encouraged to join fleets until Kenny is crushed.

[IainC]

Seems BOB has POS majority in I1Y.

I am fairly sure this isn't true at the moment. There are more hostile POSs than Goon ones in that system at present but BoB have not yet to my knowledge attained a majority by themselves, 4 or 5 at least of the hostile POSs belong to other alliances.

[Endie]

Putting losing Sov in 1Iy to a logistics snafu is imo gilding the lily.  How can a system with Sov 3 and a jb fall so easily?  49.....1Iy.... I'm starting to see a pattern. 

It wasn't a logistics snafu so much as a management one: director A changes stront timing on a tower without telling director B.  Director B panics and tells Director C we have a potential spy, which leads Director C to ask for those responsible for security auditing to remove rights from all stront timers not on the official list.  When it is cleared up, not all those who were asked to act fast on the audit do so, and so we end up without Anzac stront-timers in place for a critical hour.

As regards the SA forums, the bulk of GGoonfleet members, like myself, rarely visit there in comparison with GF.com.  Most (though not all) of those who do are not in current fleets, but are more likely to be burnt-out vets, fuck-goon exiles, misguided newbies and the like.  Fact is that we've had a bad ten days, after a very good two weeks before that: we're seriously outnumbered even with the help of KIA and Rzr, who are helping a lot. All of this has happened before.  All of this will happen again.  I've been through at least two such episodes before over the years, and I'm pretty sure that we'll see some login-inspiring drama soon.