Carbine Studios' "Wildstar"

[Paelos]

The sad part is that I know several prior-WoW employees that left to go work on this, and I don't have the heart to tell them they made the wrong move.

[Ghambit]

For me it still boils down to wanting vanilla WoW In Space.

But it isn't. If it had WoW's combat mechanics then I'd like it about a billion times more.

This. I don't want GW2 dodge the fire combat bullshit.

There are non-mobility based classes and paths, but not sure how one would fair not dodging at all.  You'd also be nixing the resources and abilities tied to the dodge mechanic (not a huge feature loss, but still part of the game).  Might work, might not - not sure.  There are also ways to 'uber-vanilla' the combat UI but I cant go into it.

The sad part is that I know several prior-WoW employees that left to go work on this, and I don't have the heart to tell them they made the wrong move.

Maybe wait till OB to break it to them.     In all seriousness though, if they enjoyed making the game and are happy with the product (assuming they are)... how could it be the wrong move?

[Threash]

GW2 combat would be a huge step up.

[Signe]

I'll probably play at some point but I do agree that sub based games kind of put me off these days.  I can only justify having one and I'm itchy to play EQNL right now.  My sister, the recent Wowhead who blames me because she didn't even know what it was until a year or so ago, will love this.  She might even switch over.  I also really like the goofy look of this one.

[Venkman]

The sad part is that I know several prior-WoW employees that left to go work on this, and I don't have the heart to tell them they made the wrong move.

How is this the wrong move? If they are on the dev team, won't they know to be looking for a new gig anyway? So they've been employed on something new and interesting for awhile, and gaining experience in their particular craft, and probably won't get much if any blowback on whatever finances this game does or not achieve anyway.

I mean, as long as their skills are applicable to the industry itself and not some niche-y beautiful snowflake development pipeline, they would be looking for new jobs pretty soon anyway, right?

[Paelos]

I suppose it's the expecations gap. Many of them hoped to be on this game as long as they were on WoW, which was almost 7-8 years in many cases. They were art assets people and the like.

Maybe it's not the wrong move, but I don't like the longevity prospects here.

[sam, an eggplant]

This. I don't want GW2 dodge the fire combat bullshit.

Dodging is actually very easy in PvE with autofacing. You do need to move, you can't just stand and eat the attacks, but it's relatively non-annoying. Or at least that's what it looks like in the streams. You can't autoface in PvP, and my guess is that autofacing in high-end PvE will be looked down upon like clicking in WoW, where you can compete but it puts you at a disadvantage. But the leveling experience, it doesn't look bad.

[Venkman]

I suppose it's the expecations gap. Many of them hoped to be on this game as long as they were on WoW, which was almost 7-8 years in many cases. They were art assets people and the like.

Maybe it's not the wrong move, but I don't like the longevity prospects here.

Oh ah, yea, for that mindset, that's a problem. Even if their skills are adaptable to a new role, sounds like they were looking for another emotional life commitment rather than just some gig to pay the bills.

[Lakov_Sanite]

The doomcasting on wildstar seems a bit, premature.

[Ingmar]

This. I don't want GW2 dodge the fire combat bullshit.

Dodging is actually very easy in PvE with autofacing. You do need to move, you can't just stand and eat the attacks, but it's relatively non-annoying. Or at least that's what it looks like in the streams. You can't autoface in PvP, and my guess is that autofacing in high-end PvE will be looked down upon like clicking in WoW, where you can compete but it puts you at a disadvantage. But the leveling experience, it doesn't look bad.

The issue is not whether or not it's easy, it's whether or not one enjoys it. I don't.

[Rendakor]

Exactly. Having played GW2 and TSW, I'm capable of dodging fire I'm just unwilling to do so while leveling. I don't want "action combat" in my MMOs, I like my tab-target hotbars despite how unpopular that is to say around here these days.

[Draegan]

There are plenty of games that give you that experience.

[Rendakor]

True, but I was excited to hear about Wildstar because it's compared to early WoW. Except, not with WoW style combat so it's sort of off putting.

[Simond]

The doomcasting on wildstar seems a bit, premature.

Why? It's yet another game in the long line of "like WoW but not as good" mistakes and is going to be F2P within a year.
Gg next map

[Venkman]

I find it more interesting the array of reasons why different people don't like it. I get if it's a pale imitation WoW. I get maybe it's that way because like TESO people aren't powering through a weak onboarding experience and then never getting to the "fun".

But what I found interesting was this most recent conversation about tab targeting, and not wanting to dodge while grinding.

I am the opposite. I want combat fun and engaging right away. I'll look for the best and most action-oriented templates for that reason. Tab targeting and autoattack got stale for me in UO a decade ago. I only lasted in EQ1 because I loved song twisting even in downtime. And my favorite parts of GW2 and TSW were those templates which maximized fluid positioning and dodging. The idea of grinding to me isn't just how the game manages time-to-foozle, but whether I was enjoying it along the way.

In large part this is because I normally don't stick around for the endgame, which I rarely make it to anyway.

Everyone's different (duh), but on this point I find I'm most different from other veterans.

[sam, an eggplant]

The issue is not whether or not it's easy, it's whether or not one enjoys it. I don't.

It's a matter of degree. I find auto-facing renders dodging dramatically less annoying. You still have to hit the button, but you aren't constantly fiddling with the camera.

[Spiff]

GW2 did dodge combat by far the best I've seen in an MMO (TSW did it, but I wouldn't say they did it well), to the extent that I'm not sure there's much room for improvement there.
There is definitely something lost though and I sometimes find it more tiring than I'm willing to put up with, for an MMO anyway, which I don't play for my reflexes to be tested to their maximum (maybe I'm just )

I still fondly remember AoC combat for those first 20-30 levels, before it became bloated, carpal-tunnel inducing shit, and hope it's revisited (and improved) someday. Too bad Funcom decided to abandon it for TSW.

[Evildrider]

Too bad Funcom decided to abandon it for TSW.

TSW is a better game then AoC ever was.

[Sjofn]

I am not a huge fan of Action Combat in MMOs. I don't play them for that (I don't play any game for that sort of thing, really). Actually, I should clarify: I don't like Action Combat for generic PvE. I don't like that every single fight (EVERY SINGLE ONE) boils down to "don't stand in the fire." I find that just as dull as autoattacking a monster to death, only it has the added disadvantage that I can't eat a snack at the same time. So while I enjoy it well enough when it's DUNGEON TIEM or PvP, given I spend the bulk of my time NOT doing those things (usually), it's not something I like to see.

That said, the combat isn't the part about Wildstar I find boring. I liked the combat well enough for what it was, and I like the limited action set thing. The delivery of why I need to collect bear asses is painfully dull though. That (other than its chargen) is the biggest throwback to WoW, and I find it's not something I enjoy any more. Although at least it doesn't have Metzen all over it.

[Spiff]

TSW is a better game then AoC ever was.

Idd, but there was something interesting about AoC combat and I don't think they had to abandon that to make TSW a better game (in fact combat is pretty much the last thing I'd mention as a positive for TSW).
Lotro experimented with a similar 'hit the right string of buttons to get this effect' style combat with their Warden, which was the most interesting thing that ever happened there as far as combat goes as well.

It could be an interesting alternative to the current flavor of the month where apparently dodge is the panacea to cure dull in combat.

[Rasix]

I disliked AoC combat enough to start playing mages in it.  It was just tiresome.

I think if I decided to play Wildstar at launch, it'd make me  just end up wanting to play WoW.  No game has done that since Rift.   That said, I find the combat passable, just somewhat derivative given what I play currently.

[MediumHigh]

I find that tab-targetting is superior in some aspects, merely because it works within the paradigm that mmo's suck. In pve, because combat is merely a way to get from point A to point A.1, the monotonous nature of most encounters generally lends itself to a low intensity way of playing. In pvp, because lag is king, tag targeting is more forgiving. Not to say "action oriented" is superior in a "mmo's don't suck world" I generally play rpg's because of the more "tactical" nature of the combat, so action combat has to be visceral but not twitch based in order for me to find it fun in a game with no crit rockets or head shots.

[01101010]

I can see both sides of the argument here. Tab-targeting and autoattack works and makes things a bit less active in a grinding sense, but the active attacks and area of attack stuff makes you play the game more but when shit gets grindy, it is probably more bother than it is worth.

For myself, I am just looking for something to scratch that build-a-character itch. Combat is here nor there for me. I am sure that will change when I am pressing keys 40 times on the 100,00th foozle, but I'll cross that bridge when I come to it.

Never likes Oblivion or Elder Scrolls gameplay nor the graphics so I am completely off that reservation. This however I'll throw some money at until I don't want to anymore.

[KallDrexx]

I have zero problem with tab targetting and slower gameplay *if* the combat proves to be interesting enough to be more than 1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4.  If it makes you think then tab combat is better, as it gives better chance for strategy and tactics rather than reflexes. 

[tmp]

GW2 did dodge combat by far the best I've seen in an MMO (TSW did it, but I wouldn't say they did it well), to the extent that I'm not sure there's much room for improvement there.

Coming straight from TERA the GW2 combat was the most disappointing piece of floaty shit I've played in a while, completely lacking the sense of connection with the character. That included their dodging.

So, yeah; definitely some room there

[Threash]

I have zero problem with tab targetting and slower gameplay *if* the combat proves to be interesting enough to be more than 1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4.  If it makes you think then tab combat is better, as it gives better chance for strategy and tactics rather than reflexes. 

I agree, tab target combat was great in age of wushu.

[Rendakor]

GW2 did dodge combat by far the best I've seen in an MMO (TSW did it, but I wouldn't say they did it well), to the extent that I'm not sure there's much room for improvement there.

Coming straight from TERA the GW2 combat was the most disappointing piece of floaty shit I've played in a while, completely lacking the sense of connection with the character. That included their dodging.

So, yeah; definitely some room there

I think playing TERA is a big part of why GW2 didn't click for me.

[Falconeer]

Same for me. TERA showed me real action combat is possible in MMORPGs and pretty much ruined everything else now, especially Neverwinter and The Elder Scrolls Onlie. Also worth mentioning that while I have nothing against the "telegraphs" that are used in every game now, TERA didn't use them so much and still managed to offer plenty of ways to keep player on their toes and make attacks obvious pushing players to actively defend, dodge and parry.

I used to hate it, but I realize it's true, you need animation lock to some degree  for these action based games. Infinite mobility has to be countered by some kind of penalty. You should have to make the decision of committing to an attack or moving in a certain direction.

I think I agree now. Some non-MMORPG have been going a route that I would have never thought it could work but it does. Basically, you can cast and attack while moving but when you do you "slow down" your movement for the duration of the cast/attack/animation. That works perfectly well in Smite (which is basically MMORPG combat done right, just missing some oomph) and Dead Island Epidemic. Seems to me that if done properly this could be a good compromise between being rooted when attacking (feeling too heavy-stiff) and having absolute mobility (feeling too light-insubstantial).

[Hoax]

I may have suffered from the TERA to GW2 thing as well.

[Cadaverine]

Wildstar is doing a closed beta weekend this weekend the 7th through the 9th.

Alienware is(or possibly was by the time this is posted)  giving away keys, if anyone is interested.
http://na.alienwarearena.com/giveaways/wildstar-closed-beta-weekend-key-giveaway

I have a spare key as well, PM me, blah blah.  Gone.

[HaemishM]

I got one. They had about 1800 keys left.

[01101010]

~1k now.

[Trippy]

Wildstar is doing a closed beta weekend this weekend the 7th through the 9th.

Alienware is(or possibly was by the time this is posted)  giving away keys, if anyone is interested.
http://na.alienwarearena.com/giveaways/wildstar-closed-beta-weekend-key-giveaway

I have a spare key as well, PM me, blah blah.  Gone.

Keys all gone.

[Der Helm]

So. Now I need to decide what class I want to try out. I know almost nothing about the game except for the class intro videos. What class is most OP at the moment ? Does anyone know ? 
I really don't want to relive my miserable TSO experience from last weekend.

[Nevermore]

I fully expect Wildstar to be just as miserable, just in different ways.