The Elder Scrolls Online

[satael]

TESO's minimal (and I even got a mod to make it even less) UI was great for a solo pve game but it made me feel really strange (and not happy) when it was time for pvp and I had to load a relatively intrusive UI to make sense of all (or atleast some) of what was happening in the combat there.

[Wizgar]

Well, that's just saying the same thing you could say about every MMO since WoW.  Do you like combat less fun than every single player game ever?  Check.  Do you like running meaningless quests for hundreds of hours?  Check.  Are you willing to make huge graphical sacrifices in order to get 50 other players on your screen whom you wish would go the fuck away?  Check.  Do you love everything about levels and loathe organic skill progression?  Check.  Do you dislike actual role-playing?  Check.  Do you like be constantly reminded that investing real world cash will make your character better?  Check.

MMOs will never be truly fun again, because of all of the above, in my opinion.  It is no longer possible.  Sometimes a particular feature of a game will mask the shortcomings for a while, but at the end of the day this genre is broken beyond repair.

I've been told that the genre is thriving. After all, WoW still has 12 million 11 million 10 million 9 million 8 million whatever number of players left, and the fact that everyone has to point to a decade-old game in decline to show how everything is hunky dory is apparently apropos of nothing.

[Venkman]

WoW's in decline and nothing has come along to replace it. People outgrow these kind of life sinks and the core feedback loops that made these unique have jumped to other types of games anyway.

But that doesn't mean this genre is dead. It just means it's not getting the stuffed shirt press release VC crowd bubble-style attention it was getting in the mid-2000s.

That is apropos of nothing in terms of gamers seeking games to play.

Right now I'm playing AA because even though combat is terrible and the leveling is shitty questing, all the crafting, open world pvp, and other social dynamics of the game seem really really fun.

Every time you say "AA" I think Auto Assault

[Ingmar]

If only!

[Falconeer]

If only! x2

[Surlyboi]

I'll third that. I miss that game, shitty as it was.

[Scold]

Right now I'm playing AA because even though combat is terrible

How terrible? :X

[satael]

the official "we are still working to solve a series of unique problems" announcement for the 6-month delay on the console versions. There's also some talk/rumours that TESO might get a f2p option when the console versions launch though I doubt they are stupid enough to confirm that in any way in the foreseeable future. 

[Draegan]

Right now I'm playing AA because even though combat is terrible

How terrible? :X

It's just standard hotbar/tab target combat. I think it's shitty. A lot of people like it though.

[Miasma]

Billing for the next month ran.  People who didn't resubscribe weren't instantly culled from guild lists, we'll see what happens.

[Scold]

Right now I'm playing AA because even though combat is terrible

How terrible? :X

It's just standard hotbar/tab target combat. I think it's shitty. A lot of people like it though.

I thought AA had some physics involved in projectiles? No? :(

[Paelos]

Billing for the next month ran.  People who didn't resubscribe weren't instantly culled from guild lists, we'll see what happens.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tfslY_AvhLw

[Samprimary]

were any of the larger game mechanic/class balance issues handled this month, or was that all left alone due to larger more systemic issues getting handled?

[Miasma]

They nerfed one setup in PvP where vampires could kill entire raids full of people without even taking damage themselves, but that's about it.

There was a patch today that did very little, just some quest bug fixes.  It seems like they are saving most of the changes for the Craglorn content patch.  This is a pretty bad idea because now a lot of fixes are attached to something which might be delayed over and over again.

I'm dreading Craglorn because it will nerf my hirelings and my Bash ability.  This game's group content is pretty terrible and very buggy so I don't see anything to look forward to either, since it's all group focused.

[Daeven]

Right now I'm playing AA because even though combat is terrible

How terrible? :X

It's just standard hotbar/tab target combat. I think it's shitty. A lot of people like it though.

I thought AA had some physics involved in projectiles? No? :(

You just like giving people flack.

[Hawkbit]

You know how I know you fucked up?

When ZAM launches a third-party AH for you. 

That's how.

[Signe]

You know how I know you fucked up?

When ZAM launches a third-party AH for you. 

That's how.

What's it like?  And, yes, I agree.  I wonder how long it'll take for the GAME to agree.

[Hawkbit]

I didn't try it; only saw the headline. 

I'm not sure this game is salvageable.  The six month delay on the console version backs that up.  I want to like it because of the setting, but it's just not a very good game.

[Logain]

This game fucking sucks. I sold my account. Just glad I could recoup some of the cost. Maybe this time I learned my lesson when it comes to pre-ordering MMOs. Probably not.

[Signe]

There's so much wrong with the game and not just the lack of an AH.  As much as I like some of the bits that are Elder Scrolls, such as being able to interact with so many items in the environment, I don't see it being worth a sub fee.  I don't even see it being worth my effort if it was ftp.  I would be too frustrated.  Any game that makes me frustrated even when I'm stoned and giggly will eventually kill me.  This game is in dire need of many many miracle patches. 

[rk47]

It just needs to be single player. 

[Sir T]

It just needs to be single player. 

So, your saying this is KOTOR? 

[rk47]

I'd play TOR if it's Single Player.
Well, not exactly.
I tried playing the F2P. But the installer won't work.
Checked forum, turns out I need to unrar the thing manually - and seeing no developer/moderator response to the thread made me understand why I shouldn't care about this game.

[Ingmar]

Er, what? The installer is just an .exe download.

[amiable]

They just had a "forum update".  I still can't create an account or find where this mythical "activation code" is located.  I am still a paying subscriber, lol.

[Simond]

I am still a paying subscriber

I think I've found the root cause of the problem.

[sam, an eggplant]

You know how I know you fucked up?

When ZAM launches a third-party AH for you. 

ESO runs on a megaserver architecture. Remember the lesson of Diablo 3 1.0. If you have your entire regional population in a single auction house, the market becomes extraordinarily efficient. Your currency inflates at a rapid pace, and you're forced to make strong bind on equip items much rarer, which makes playing the game (versus playing the auction house) less rewarding.

There are several ways around that, of course, including setting items bind on pickup/account/guild/friends, but commodities cannot be bound and retain a strong inflationary effect.

There are ways around that, too-- my favorite is to shard the auction house. The very first time your account uses the AH, you're assigned to a named shard that best matches your guildmates, friends, and those in the same timezone. Each shard contains a designated number of accounts, say 10k. If you want to switch AH shards for whatever reason, you can do it for free once per month.

[rk47]

Er, what? The installer is just an .exe download.

Yeah I know, but when I run the installer, it'll finish real quick and just closes.
Five times tried. Same result.
I googled and stumbled on a thread where I have to unrar that thing etc.
I just can't be arsed, and the officials didn't seem to pitch in any ideas to fix it.
Fuck it, if they're apathetic about it, then so be it.

[amiable]

I am still a paying subscriber

I think I've found the root cause of the problem.

My wife is still playing.  Also, I actually find the PvP fun.

[Lantyssa]

There are ways around that, too-- my favorite is to shard the auction house. The very first time your account uses the AH, you're assigned to a named shard that best matches your guildmates, friends, and those in the same timezone. Each shard contains a designated number of accounts, say 10k. If you want to switch AH shards for whatever reason, you can do it for free once per month.

FFXI's is another way.  Let people designate the price they want to buy things for, and when someone sells it for that or under, the item gets sold at the buy price to the buyer that had the highest bid.

GW2's system is similar, but people know what they're selling it for ahead of time.  It's a small difference, but by having the seller be blind as to the current bids and a limited means they have to low-ball if they want it sold, making the FFXI system a bit better at controlling inflation from what I saw.  (No idea now, after so many years in service.  It certainly didn't find equilibrium quite so quickly though.)

[Paelos]

The lack of an AH is going to be the albatross for them. I know why they didn't do it, but that wasn't the right conclusion to draw from prior games.

[sam, an eggplant]

GW2 has a megaserver too, but their system doesn't control inflation.

http://gw2trading.net/report/inflation

The consignment system in FFXI is another totally valid approach, good call.

[Count Nerfedalot]

It seems to me like.meagserver vs multiple servers only accelerates rather than creating the problem? The root problem is insufficient sinks to balance the sources, be it gold, uber items, or crafting ingredients.

The issues with gear a la Diablo 3 may well be insurmountable though, although TESO's guild/community AH may well have been a good solution for D3, D3 wasn't a persistent world nor was it a crafting/economy game. So while it MIGHT have worked for D3, it was totally inadequate for TESO.

But a crafting economy's lifeblood is the ability to buy and sell resources and finished goods. Especially one with hundreds of resources and severely limited inventory, forcing you to behave like a just-in-time manufacturing entity, but with hundreds of thousands of competitors, no mechanisms for making or taking orders, no contract law, no way to differentiate yourself, and no way to communicate it even if you could.

[Tannhauser]

The lack of an AH is going to be the albatross for them. I know why they didn't do it, but that wasn't the right conclusion to draw from prior games.

Agreed.  To me, a AAA MMO must have some kind of AH and I don't mean Diablo.  It does annoy me with its absence and makes it easier to keep from buying the game.

[Miasma]

The Craglorn patch drops tomorrow.  Number of people at VR10 who would give a shit is maybe one percent of the population.