The Elder Scrolls Online

[Falconeer]

It sure sounds like you are trying to defend it. The, uh, constant passive-aggressive comparisons with Wildstar aren't exactly helping either.

Well I am not. I don't like either games. I am saying that I feel the negative buzz for this game and the positive buzz for Wildstar make no sense. They are both absolutely utterly pathetically meh.

Sometimes people here mistake trying to have a reasonable discourse for fanboing. Unless you piss on something then you are rooting for it.
Maybe I could substitute "I don't like either games" with "I think these two games are fucking shit and I am afraid to get herpes just by typing about them", which would be more f13 and less passive aggressive I guess. Clear?

[Paelos]

I'm with you, I think Wildstar sucks too. They are different for reasons I can't really display with NDA on Wildstar, but they are similar in that I've played them both before, and one is slightly more polished.

[Margalis]

Haem hits exactly how I felt. It's just really bland and BORING. It's not a bad game really, just very bland.

Isn't this a distinction without a difference? Bland and boring makes for a bad game no?

[Venkman]

Well, you can have "competently executed" as praise, even if the product is boring. I felt like that about launch-state LoTRO. Fine, discontroversial, ultimately a fin execution of things I already knew how to do.

The problem is that the only view most people have of the game came from stress tests limited to a single weekend at a time, usually forcing players to start over from level 1, and level capped to 15. So unless you were able to play the entire weekend, you never actually got out of the newbie areas. So everybody judged the game based upon the intro, leading to a shitstorm of negative opinion.

None of that excuses the fact that the intro isn't compelling, but like I said earlier, it's no worse than rift, LOTRO, TOR, FFXIV, or Wildstar. From what I've seen in streams, Wildstar's newbie experience is the same sort of soul-crushing on-rails dreary experience, just a bit more colorful, with less story, and Wildstar's "zaniness".

True. But at least for Rift, LoTRO and TOR, the combat system kinda made up for some parts of that, and the aesthetic made up for other parts.

TESO doesn't seem to have either going for it in those first few levels.

Some people will power through it. Some people who've been playing MMOs since M59 will probably be among them. Some people here bitching about it may also end up powering through it simply because they have nothing better to do at the moment.

"eh, it's better than nothing" is not a strong driver of revenue

[Margalis]

Well, you can have "competently executed" as praise, even if the product is boring.

For a game (or any entertainment product) I don't think it makes sense to say that something unfun is competently executed. If it's not fun then the developers have failed to execute the primary objective.

It's like saying that a movie that has an awful script and awful acting and is boring was shot in proper focus. "It's not bad, I didn't see a single boom mic drop in from the ceiling during the entire film!"

I get what you are saying, but I dislike the notion that the craft of game making should be evaluated separately from the art. And making a fun game is as much craft as art.

[Hoax]

I'd like to see Sam's post front paged as well.

[apocrypha]

I'm a day late for the NDA-has-dropped hate-train but I fully support said train.

Most of the criticisms I have for the beta have already been covered in this thread. I also didn't make it past about level 7 because it was so unpleasant to play. It wasn't just that it wasn't fun, it was actually actively unfun.

Playing Skyrim you arrive at the first main town (Whiterun) and it feels like a living place. NPCs wander about, chatting to each other, going about their jobs, doing different things depending on the time of day, kids run about the streets and it generally feels a lot like a real place. That illusion breaks if you look too closely of course but superficial impressions are highly immersive.

At no point when playing Skyrim did I think to myself "what this game needs is 200 player characters running about and jumping and emoting in these towns, swarming around the same vendors and quest givers and typing 'lol faggot wow plaers!' in general chat". Nor did I consider that having the entire world be motionless, sterile, dead, populated with immobile & silent NPCs and entirely grey or brown would be an improvement of any sort.

Age of Conan turned to shit at level 12, this is utter shit *until* level 12. Both approaches are made of 100% fail.

[Venkman]

Well, you can have "competently executed" as praise, even if the product is boring.

For a game (or any entertainment product) I don't think it makes sense to say that something unfun is competently executed. If it's not fun then the developers have failed to execute the primary objective.

It's like saying that a movie that has an awful script and awful acting and is boring was shot in proper focus. "It's not bad, I didn't see a single boom mic drop in from the ceiling during the entire film!"

I get what you are saying, but I dislike the notion that the craft of game making should be evaluated separately from the art. And making a fun game is as much craft as art.

I hear ya. But how many movies win technical awards even though they're boring or terrible otherwise? I don't mean that flippantly either.

Many of the people on these projects will move on to other projects based on the skills they have, not on the success of the overall business. Character designers, world builders, texture artists, writers, sound designers, etc.* TESO may be a boring unfun experience in total, but some of things about it are valid experience for people on those career tracks.

* I only list these for example. I have no opinion on their output in TESO.

[Samprimary]

My little screed might not be useful for the front page, which seems to be trying to focus on, you know, less about what games not to play and more about what you should play and/or what you might want to do while playing them.

There's an interesting undercurrent of potential to find secret well-hidden fun buried in ESO by treating it like some kind of fun safari. Or something. Apparently just a lot of potentially fun things that seem hard to access or even painfully hidden from the get-go. You could write an article about that, but I wouldn't be able to help much.

[Nebu]

There's an interesting undercurrent of potential to find secret well-hidden fun buried in ESO by treating it like some kind of fun safari. Or something. Apparently just a lot of potentially fun things that seem hard to access or even painfully hidden from the get-go. You could write an article about that, but I wouldn't be able to help much.

It's funny that you mention this.  The entire time I was beta testing ESO I felt like I was on a quest for well-hidden fun.  Sadly, I was unable to find any.

[amiable]

At no point when playing Skyrim did I think to myself "what this game needs is 200 player characters running about and jumping and emoting in these towns, swarming around the same vendors and quest givers and typing 'lol faggot wow plaers!' in general chat". Nor did I consider that having the entire world be motionless, sterile, dead, populated with immobile & silent NPCs and entirely grey or brown would be an improvement of any sort.

Age of Conan turned to shit at level 12, this is utter shit *until* level 12. Both approaches are made of 100% fail.

This, oh god so much, this.  I feel like this game has revealed I am misanthrope who is uninterested in meeting "new people" in an MMO, because almost all of them are stupid, mean, crazy, incompetent, or a heady mixture of all of the above.  The word I used to describe the world is "sterile," there is literally zero emotional connection with anything, the storytelling is just god awful.

The thing that makes Elder scrolls so awesome and unique is that after you are out of the first dungeon, you can literally go anywhere and find something to do.  there is a whole interesting world to explore.  This game removed the most important aspect of the series.

My wife is going to make me play this game because she loves elder scrolls and I am seriously concerned that it may do irreparable harm to our relationship.   

[Lantyssa]

My wife is going to make me play this game because she loves elder scrolls and I am seriously concerned that it may do irreparable harm to our relationship.   

I can see loving Elder Scrolls, but why does that make her want to play this?

[WayAbvPar]

My wife is going to make me play this game because she loves elder scrolls and I am seriously concerned that it may do irreparable harm to our relationship.   

I can see loving Elder Scrolls, but why does that make her want to play this?

 

[HaemishM]

Haem hits exactly how I felt. It's just really bland and BORING. It's not a bad game really, just very bland.

Isn't this a distinction without a difference? Bland and boring makes for a bad game no?

Well, it makes for a boring game. A bad game is one that's not only not fun to play, but functionally shit as well - like most MMOG's on release.

[Sobelius]

For me, most new MMOs are most interesting during the period when I'm exploring the world and learning the game's various subsystems.  So far over the beta weekends I've done a lot of lockpicking and crafting (not the high levels of either, but enough to get a good feel for both), as well as combat through about level 12 (melee, ranged as well as attack and healing spells). Haven't touched the PvP since it's not a big draw for me. Pretty sad when I felt the only thing I really got excited about was getting to rank 2 in the mage's guild and learning the Mage Light skill -- indoors, the dynamic lighting effects of that little orbiting globe made me smile. Still, I'm willing to give it a go for a while upon release. I'm not looking for a game that will somehow be the end-all-be-all of games -- my bar is set low enough that I can enjoy what it has to offer. All I expect is to be entertained for a few weeks, not months or years.

[Ingmar]

Oh yeah, that reminds me, the Oblivion-like instead of Skyrim-like lockpicking didn't really please me either.

[Paelos]

Oh yeah, that reminds me, the Oblivion-like instead of Skyrim-like lockpicking didn't really please me either.

Yep that was a good place where you can see when they started making this game. 

[Fabricated]

I played past level 10 in one of the previous beta weekends, and one of my cousins who is a gigantic TES sperg played all 3 factions well over level 10 in the most recent weekend.

We both agreed this game is generally shit and will be a disaster. It'll make people who're big TES fans angry because it kinda shits all over the lore and all of the crazy/fantastic areas that have been described in all of the lore repeatedly have gotten a really milquetoast generic fantasy RPG look for their big reveal in a video game.

Combat is jank, kinda unresponsive, and first-person view is worthless for staying out of the fire. Crafting isn't terribly interesting. Interface isn't very good. Characters look okay while armor looks just about 100% retarded, environments are okay-ish but not really interesting. It's a boring butter sandwich of an MMO.

[Falconeer]

Fabricated last message echeos pretty much 100% what we've been saying since we first heard about this game. I am pretty sure we can go back to the first page of this thread and read exactly those kind of concerns and predictions. So I think it's fair to say that for once, probably the first time ever, a long-anticipated MMORPG hasn't failed expectations one bit.

[Crumbs]

I played past level 10 in one of the previous beta weekends, and one of my cousins who is a gigantic TES sperg played all 3 factions well over level 10 in the most recent weekend.

We both agreed this game is generally shit and will be a disaster. It'll make people who're big TES fans angry because it kinda shits all over the lore and all of the crazy/fantastic areas that have been described in all of the lore repeatedly have gotten a really milquetoast generic fantasy RPG look for their big reveal in a video game.

Combat is jank, kinda unresponsive, and first-person view is worthless for staying out of the fire. Crafting isn't terribly interesting. Interface isn't very good. Characters look okay while armor looks just about 100% retarded, environments are okay-ish but not really interesting. It's a boring butter sandwich of an MMO.

There were some SWTOR ads at launch that literally covered the sides of buildings in Los Angeles.  I'd wager those would make the front page of any humor website now.  Note to self:  take pictures of the building-sized TESO ads. 

[HaemishM]

So I think it's fair to say that for once, probably the first time ever, a long-anticipated MMORPG hasn't failed expectations one bit.

This game has matched every bit of expectation I had for it - that may truly be a first for MMOG's.

Of course, my expectations were negative, but... MMOG's.

[WayAbvPar]

TESO: Exactly as bad as expected!

[Bhazrak]

TESO: Exactly as bad as expected!

Yep. Though, I feel as if I might be the only one here remotely looking forward to it. 

[satael]

TESO: Exactly as bad as expected!

Yep. Though, I feel as if I might be the only one here remotely looking forward to it. 

I have it preordered (for the pvp or so I keep telling myself)

[murdoc]

Where did Blackwulf go??? 

[Paelos]

They probably ran out of money to pay him to shill. It's all going to bug-busting now. 

[Tmon]

This discussion has done nothing to make me think I should buy this game, but it does have me thinking I should have bought Skryim.

[Soulflame]

You can easily correct the Skyrim oversight via Steam!

If you wait long enough, it'll go even go on sale.  Although, I did buy the base game for $40, and haven't regretted that purchase in the slightest.

[WayAbvPar]

This discussion has done nothing to make me think I should buy this game, but it does have me thinking I should have bought Skryim.

Heh- I am working on figuring out which are the essential mods for me before I start playing it again. Loaded it briefly- I had forgotten how pretty it is.

[Soulflame]

I really should try Skyrim with some mods.  I've never tried any.

[WayAbvPar]

I am going to start with basic quality of life stuff- UI improvements and some graphic tweaks. I want to leave the core gameplay alone, at least until I figure out which parts annoy me enough to have them changed.

[Soulflame]

So, anything related to magic then?

[WayAbvPar]

Heh- not sure. I only have about 5 hours of game play under my belt, so I haven't learned what to hate yet.

[Paelos]

I really should try Skyrim with some mods.  I've never tried any.

You should. Steam facilitates this nicely if you can get past the fact that 60% of them are for pervos.

[Venkman]

Yes definitely. I stayed away from mods until Steam made it so easy it's really worth it. You'll still run into incompatibilities occasionally, but just do the usual trail and error of de/re-activating.