The Elder Scrolls Online

[Nebu]

I like first person because I'm playing as me, not a rendered version of me I see on the screen. It's an immersion thing.

Great in single player games where you are the only one affected by your choice to play in first person.  Not-so-fun when you're unable to react to your opponents well in a multiplayer situation. 

I really enjoy first person, but it's only going to work in an MMO if EVERYONE has only first person as an option. 

[Ingmar]

I was exaggerating, of course.  But it would have been easier than this shit.

Aren't you one of those people that still thinks Diku combat is fun?  Like in SWTOR?  I don't mean that as a jab, just trying to put your comment in context.  Because I am tired as shit of it. 

I do prefer it, although neither of my comments was about the combat so I am not sure how it ties in.

[Sjofn]

I like first person because I'm playing as me, not a rendered version of me I see on the screen. It's an immersion thing.

See, for me, first person view actually takes me out of it, because it's not ... right? It's like the uncanny valley of vision.

[tmp]

For me first person tends to break the immersion because it's too claustrophobic and confined compared to regular awareness of my surroundings. Probably good if I wanted to feel like I'm wearing medieval helmet, but since I'd rather be caught dead than wearing one in most games, well

[Sjofn]

Yeah exactly, it's like I'm wearing blinders or something. And yeah, I generally reject helmets too. 

[Venkman]

Yea totally. For me it's just about the peripheral vision. But the 3rd person camera needs to work. I couldn't use it in Skyrim because it felt so off (well, because it was off... center, as ya'all mentioned). So I sucked it up and took the blinders approach.

[apocrypha]

If you were in the beta then take the time to fill out the questionnaire about it. It's long & missing many crucial questions, but they're never going to make these things any better unless we tell them why they suck.

3rd person/1st person needs to be a choice, and you need to have choices within that too - camera position, distance and following options in 3rd person, FOV & head bob options in 1st person.

Why does every single game feel the need to completely reinvent the fucking wheel every single time?

[Ingmar]

Oh, I've written long screeds about the camera options each time I've had the chance, have no fear.

[HaemishM]

For me, one of the reasons most MMO's haven't felt as immersive as EQ1 is the lack of a 1st person mode that didn't suck. DAoC had one - but it lacked arms and weapon swings. As someone who played a lot of melee characters then, that was unworkable. I needed to know when my abilities hit and when I had auto attacks go off and not having arms just killed that for me. So I've played in 3rd person on all of the subsequent MMO's because that really was the only way to play. Skyrim's 3rd person view SUCKED SO HARD, but it's 1st person view was great to me - because it showed my weapons. I don't care if the perspective is a bit off and I'd like some peripheral vision but yeah, 1st person really is better for me.

[WayAbvPar]

they're never going to make these things any better unless we tell them why they suck.

F13's new motto?

[Hawkbit]

... but they're never going to make these things any better unless we tell them why they suck quit giving them money for subpar experiences.

Corrected.

[Mithas]

... but they're never going to make these things any better unless we tell them why they suck quit giving them money for subpar experiences.

Corrected.

Corrected.

[Venkman]

If you were in the beta then take the time to fill out the questionnaire about it. It's long & missing many crucial questions, but they're never going to make these things any better unless we tell them why they suck.

Their questionnaire is not about the game. Far too late for any of that. MMOs take way too long to develop to rely on near-launch insights.

Instead, if the survey is going to impact anything, it'll affect they market it (which they really truly need help on) and what the business people reference for their internal damage control conversations. Some people will use the data to score political points. Others will use it to try and figure out the best venn overlap between people who are aware of MMOs, people who are aware of Skyrim, and people who've played neither long enough to have strong impressions about how both work. Or basically the traditionally marketing target.

Because with the resounding "meh" of this experience, and the high cost of entry which shows no faith in long haul player commitments, the vaguely curious impressionable ignorants with a tax refund are their best hope.

[apocrypha]

the vaguely curious impressionable ignorants with a tax refund are their best hope.

Haha good line, I like it :)

I think you're right about the questionnaire being about marketing now that I think about it. The first question was "Do you consider yourself an MMORPG fan or an Elder Scrolls fan?".

I nearly wrote that as "The first quest"... 

[Falconeer]

I know I should mind my own business, but if you are in Europe and considering getting this, you might as well waste less money pay less and get it here for a very low price (30 euros) with 3 days early access and the "any race anywhere" preorder perk.

[WayAbvPar]

People won't stop making shitty games if other people keep paying for the privilege of being disappointed. Stop being part of the problem.

[Threash]

Maybe people shouldn't expect games to change their life.  I have never not enjoyed an MMO for at least the free month, it simply has not happened yet.  Getting a month of fun out of the box price continues to be a pretty good investment and i see no reason to stop, certainly not because depriving myself might at some point in the future lead to a game that sucks my dick while i play it.

[Nebu]

Maybe people shouldn't expect games to change their life.  I have never not enjoyed an MMO for at least the free month, it simply has not happened yet.  Getting a month of fun out of the box price continues to be a pretty good investment and i see no reason to stop, certainly not because depriving myself might at some point in the future lead to a game that sucks my dick while i play it.

Have to agree.  I tend to buy every AAA MMO and play it for the free month.  So far, I haven't felt like I was cheated out of my money... ok... Horizons may be the exception.

[Lantyssa]

Your tolerance for putting up with the initial play is well known though.  There's plenty of AAA games I wouldn't have gotten more than a few days out of, if that.

[Venkman]

People won't stop making shitty games if other people keep paying for the privilege of being disappointed. Stop being part of the problem.

People should admit they actually like the things they might otherwise feel they need to bitch about. THAT is a road to happiness 

Conviction alone is nothing without action.

[WayAbvPar]

Maybe people shouldn't expect games to change their life.  I have never not enjoyed an MMO for at least the free month, it simply has not happened yet.  Getting a month of fun out of the box price continues to be a pretty good investment and i see no reason to stop, certainly not because depriving myself might at some point in the future lead to a game that sucks my dick while i play it.

Have to agree.  I tend to buy every AAA MMO and play it for the free month.  So far, I haven't felt like I was cheated out of my money... ok... Horizons may be the exception.

If that is your bag, fine- you are a and adult and can do whatever you want with your money. I just dismay that so many people keep chasing the new game dragon and throwing money at terrible products that the industry never learns.  There are dozens of f2p or cheap alternatives to eating a $60 box sale and $15/month subscription out there- I wish people would give the other games a chance. Let this revenue model die with WoW, or force them to make a game worth that much money. Just because it is shiny and new doesn't mean it is worth a shit, but these assholes know there is a certain percentage of people who MUST play the first day/week and just rape them. I am asking everyone to do their part to lower this percentage. Make this sort of cynical release impossible to maintain.

I have not seen even one rave review for this. Everything is meh to haha holy shit this is bad. Why are there so many of you willing to pay for mediocrity?

[Nebu]

If that is your bag, fine- you are a and adult and can do whatever you want with your money. I just dismay that so many people keep chasing the new game dragon and throwing money at terrible products that the industry never learns.  There are dozens of f2p or cheap alternatives to eating a $60 box sale and $15/month subscription out there-

Most of my enjoyment in MMOs comes from the initial surge and arms race that can only be found in newly released multiplayer games.  There really aren't many F2P alternatives for this out there.   Believe me, I'm always looking for new things to try.  I'm just not a console/SPG fan beyond a few specialized niche sims.

I've come to recognize that this is why I stuck with DAoC for as long as I did.  New realms, new servers, population shifts, new server rule sets, etc.  I always had an arms race to chase.  ATitD really struck this chord for me as well.

[Falconeer]

Speaking of DAoC, is this open PvP and siege video DAoC-y enough in your opinion? Or too GuildWars2-y?

[Nebu]

Speaking of DAoC, is this open PvP and siege video DAoC-y enough in your opinion? Or too GuildWars2-y?

Have to confess that it did have a DAoC vibe to it.   I'm not happy to see stealth in PvP though.  Initiative is just too hard to balance properly.

[Ingmar]

Having destinations visible on the compass at the top of the screen totally ruins the 'Caer Berkstead/Boldiam/Benowyc' confusion comedy drama factor.

[Nebu]

Having destinations visible on the compass at the top of the screen totally ruins the 'Caer Berkstead/Boldiam/Benowyc' confusion comedy drama factor.

Makes it easier to herd the lemmings though.

[Threash]

Speaking of DAoC, is this open PvP and siege video DAoC-y enough in your opinion? Or too GuildWars2-y?

Have to confess that it did have a DAoC vibe to it.   I'm not happy to see stealth in PvP though.  Initiative is just too hard to balance properly.

Everyone has stealth, but it's not complete invisibility like in other games.

[apocrypha]

Playing this made me want to play Skyrim again.

Now I'm playing that. It's quite good.

[Paelos]

If we were allowed to give the unvarnished truth with no NDA, I have no idea what you'd be thinking if you still bought this game.

[Aza]

Some pretty good quick-vid overviews of parts of the game.

Crafting (You can do every craft and gathering skill - at all times)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9yLYZmHuZ8o

Public Dungeons (looks made for on-the-spot pugs and for solo high challenge)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2IBSQAQ8X-E

PvP (Siege combat, Mostly after DAOC, WvW style, maybe not quite as gimp as GW2) from Angry Joe
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I82pz60iGL0

[Falconeer]

I don't know about DAoC, but the PvP siege looks EXACTLY like Guild Wars 2. For good or bad, you could switch videos and screenshots and I couldn't tell which one is which.

EDIT: To expand a little, culling problems aside I was really happy with GW2 WvW. Absolutely massive battles fought to the last man/woman, I had epic conquests and defenses that I will remember for a long long time. It was great, really, but after it became too mechanical after a while as there was no sense of community and no metagame since what was an awesome idea (servers fighting each other) got mauled by a: server hopping and b: unnamed enemies.

If TESO can manage to support these huge siege battles with some "meta-meaning" to make it interesting for different groups, and individuals, to acknowledge and fight each other, then this could probably be a winner (for that niche interested in faction based open world PvP games).

[sam, an eggplant]

NDA is finally lifted for the general public. Lets post those screeds, guys!

[Paelos]

NDA is finally lifted for the general public. Lets post those screeds, guys!

You have a link for that?

[sam, an eggplant]

http://elderscrollsonline.com/en/news/post/2014/02/15/the-beta-nda-has-lifted

[Venkman]

Includes some UI elements we got used to in Skyrim. Includes all the MMO tropes you'd expect.

Includes none of the things we liked about Skyrim. The MMO tropes included are late 2000s era.

I didn't bother with PvP. That's possibly its biggest draw. But it'll likely be a slice of the relatively small userbase they'll be able to retain after the first month, possibly DAoC-sized, maybe smaller.

In brief, I think of this as EQ2 vs WoW again, though TESO vs Wildstar.

Edit: I will say I gave this about 3 hours. Tops. It was just so painfully generic. Possible successes could derive from:

• Someone who really REALLY hopes for the DAoC style RvR and is willing to grind it out to get there
• Someone who REALLY gets into the ES lore and has a high threshold for boring combat
• Someone who is on their second MMO with associated starry-eyed hopes. Queue tears next month.
• Someone who is attracted to this as their very first MMO with the attendant "wow cool other people" first time experience. Queue tears and private longing glances at Wildstar in 2-3 months.