The Elder Scrolls Online

[Paelos]

A large proportion of them are also pervy as hell. Internet ruins things like that.

[calapine]

I only have a handful of minor mods, mostly little convenience things and bugfixes. Lamaros is right; the base game is a great game in its own right, mods are unnecessary (and a large proportion of them are terrible).

So wrong. All Beth. games of that series - Fallout 3 - F:NV - Skyrim. Have been so enhanced by mods. From simple texture replacers, atmosphere (weather), game content, much needed balance changes (skyrim combat, magic in particular...ugh...)

[Rasix]

Only mod I've ever relied on for a BethSoft game is the No Cliff Racers mod for Morrowind.  I've beaten Fallout 3/NV, Oblivion, and Skyrim without a single mod installed. I just don't feel the need.  I can deal with the interfaces. 

I've tried some of the texture improvements for Morrowind. But then upon loading the game, I realize I've played the shit out of Morrowind and there's better things I can do with my time. 

[lamaros]

I only have a handful of minor mods, mostly little convenience things and bugfixes. Lamaros is right; the base game is a great game in its own right, mods are unnecessary (and a large proportion of them are terrible).

So wrong. All Beth. games of that series - Fallout 3 - F:NV - Skyrim. Have been so enhanced by mods. From simple texture replacers, atmosphere (weather), game content, much needed balance changes (skyrim combat, magic in particular...ugh...)

Anything can be enhanced by a good mod. That doesn't mean that a) the base game isn't the source of most of the awesomeness, b) the base game isn't fantastic all by itself, and c) that the vast majority of players don't use mods.

[Nija]

If you played Daggerfall without increasing your cart size via a mod I don't know what to tell you.

[Lakov_Sanite]

I felt the last two fallout games were excellent right out of the box, skyrim too.  Sure the mods are nice but the base games were plenty good without well, maybe not the skyrim UI.

[Ginaz]

Looks like its possible the NDA might be lifted on Friday, at least for the press.
http://www.gamezone.com/news/2014/02/03/where-is-the-elder-scrolls-online-preview-it-s-coming

[Paelos]

What does that mean for the rest of us?

[Riggswolfe]

Skyrim has sold 20 million copies, only 14% of which were on the PC, so the market for people who've never played WoW, or WAR or SWTOR is huge, many of whom will stump up a full price box cost and then a monthly sub for a few months without hesitation. I suspect TESO might even give a significant boost to Xbox One sales this summer.

That stat shocks me. Not the number of copies but that only 14% were on PC. If any games should be played exclusively on PC it is Bethesday games. The mods are what make those games great, not what it ships with.

Complete rubbish. Do you know how few of even those PC players will have modded the game?

Players rarely even patch unless its forced upon them.

Skyrim base game is incredible.

Arguably Skyrim and the Fallout games are the only Bethesda games that are good out of the box. (yes, I know New Vegas is made by Obsidian but it's on the Bethesda engine). Let's put it this way, many of my friends don't even buy Bethesda games until a few months after release because that's when the mods start coming out. The mod communities for Bethesda games is huge, larger than any other game I know of. If you haven't at least installed SkyUI then you're playing an inferior version of Skyrim. Period.

[Ghambit]

I'm getting this creepy "hmm, I might just play this" vibe from this thread now. Wtf happened?

[murdoc]

Looks like its possible the NDA might be lifted on Friday, at least for the press.
http://www.gamezone.com/news/2014/02/03/where-is-the-elder-scrolls-online-preview-it-s-coming

I got an email reminding me there is a NDA in place, and DON'T YOU FORGET IT.

[satael]

I'm getting this creepy "hmm, I might just play this" vibe from this thread now. Wtf happened?

I know that I will play this game (barring something significant happening) but that's just because the guild I like to play with has decided to (officially) play this game.
And that means that I have to actually download the beta for the stress test so I can decide if I really want the physical imperial edition (which I'm actually considering) or if I'll just go with the cheapest option. 

[Falconeer]

I'm getting this creepy "hmm, I might just play this" vibe from this thread now. Wtf happened?

Between this and Wildstar I am  'ed to death, but if there's a chance I will play any of the two it will probably be The Elder Scrolls Online. Sorry Ghambit, didn't mean to waste your beta key and I consider myself in debt with you. I really tried, but Wildstar so far is a huuuuge disappointment. This one on the other hand started like such a ridiculous mess I had zero expectations on that now I can almost see a glimpse of future fun with the right group of people and if the threeway PvP will turn out not to be a slide show.

[apocrypha]

Has anyone read or skimmed the NDA?

How strict is it? I.e. can people even say they've got a beta invite for this weekend and are trying to download it despite the launcher repeatedly shitting the bed? Or would that violate said NDA?

[Paelos]

Breathing violates the NDA. But nobody cares about saying you're in.

[palmer_eldritch]

Looks like its possible the NDA might be lifted on Friday, at least for the press.
http://www.gamezone.com/news/2014/02/03/where-is-the-elder-scrolls-online-preview-it-s-coming

I actually find that far more creepy than an all-encompassing NDA. They're happy for a professional gaming website to reveal all, but don't want ordinary gamers to put up a video on YouTube? It suggests they fear their actual customers are disappointed in the product - but still feel confident somehow that the professional media will say nice things . . .

[apocrypha]

Right, well. 500k invites went out for this weekend's event. NDA or not stuff's gonna be leaking all over the place come the weekend.

And, the launcher is a piece of shit. Randomly refuses to start, randomly drops back to 0%, really doesn't like being stopped and resumed. I'm actually doubtful I'll get all 21Gb downloaded before the weekend event starts.

[Paelos]

I got invited back again. I'm working on Saturday, but I may check it again on Sunday to see if anything has changed.

I want Fabricated to do the same so I can get some laughs.

[Lucas]

I'm in again and this time I'll be able to play, since the test will end on monday evening EST (last one ended on a Sunday). SO excited 

[lamaros]

Skyrim has sold 20 million copies, only 14% of which were on the PC, so the market for people who've never played WoW, or WAR or SWTOR is huge, many of whom will stump up a full price box cost and then a monthly sub for a few months without hesitation. I suspect TESO might even give a significant boost to Xbox One sales this summer.

That stat shocks me. Not the number of copies but that only 14% were on PC. If any games should be played exclusively on PC it is Bethesday games. The mods are what make those games great, not what it ships with.

Complete rubbish. Do you know how few of even those PC players will have modded the game?

Players rarely even patch unless its forced upon them.

Skyrim base game is incredible.

Arguably Skyrim and the Fallout games are the only Bethesda games that are good out of the box. (yes, I know New Vegas is made by Obsidian but it's on the Bethesda engine). Let's put it this way, many of my friends don't even buy Bethesda games until a few months after release because that's when the mods start coming out. The mod communities for Bethesda games is huge, larger than any other game I know of. If you haven't at least installed SkyUI then you're playing an inferior version of Skyrim. Period.

What does that have to do with what I said? Nothing at all.

[rk47]

[Ginaz]

Skyrim has sold 20 million copies, only 14% of which were on the PC, so the market for people who've never played WoW, or WAR or SWTOR is huge, many of whom will stump up a full price box cost and then a monthly sub for a few months without hesitation. I suspect TESO might even give a significant boost to Xbox One sales this summer.

That stat shocks me. Not the number of copies but that only 14% were on PC. If any games should be played exclusively on PC it is Bethesday games. The mods are what make those games great, not what it ships with.

Complete rubbish. Do you know how few of even those PC players will have modded the game?

Players rarely even patch unless its forced upon them.

Skyrim base game is incredible.

Arguably Skyrim and the Fallout games are the only Bethesda games that are good out of the box. (yes, I know New Vegas is made by Obsidian but it's on the Bethesda engine). Let's put it this way, many of my friends don't even buy Bethesda games until a few months after release because that's when the mods start coming out. The mod communities for Bethesda games is huge, larger than any other game I know of. If you haven't at least installed SkyUI then you're playing an inferior version of Skyrim. Period.

What does that have to do with what I said? Nothing at all.

Yeah, I never really modded Skyrim all that much, either.  My first few dozen hours or so I used no mods at all and my overall enjoyment of the game wasn't increased that much when I did use mods.  The game is great as is.

[Ginaz]

So, I ended up getting the Imperial version.  I did not, however, pay full price.  Greenmangaming had a 20% discount going, plus I used another coupon I had which brought the total to $52, which is $2 more than the regular version.  I knew I was going to play regardless and having played the beta, I know I'll at least get a month or two out of it, maybe more depending on how engaging the later game stuff is.

[Threash]

So, I ended up getting the Imperial version.  I did not, however, pay full price.  Greenmangaming had a 20% discount going, plus I used another coupon I had which brought the total to $52, which is $2 more than the regular version.  I knew I was going to play regardless and having played the beta, I know I'll at least get a month or two out of it, maybe more depending on how engaging the later game stuff is.

To be fair as much as i've doom casted this game there hasn't been a single mmo so far that i did not enjoy for the free month at least.

[Ginaz]

So, I ended up getting the Imperial version.  I did not, however, pay full price.  Greenmangaming had a 20% discount going, plus I used another coupon I had which brought the total to $52, which is $2 more than the regular version.  I knew I was going to play regardless and having played the beta, I know I'll at least get a month or two out of it, maybe more depending on how engaging the later game stuff is.

To be fair as much as i've doom casted this game there hasn't been a single mmo so far that i did not enjoy for the free month at least.

Same here.  I've played the beta so I know what I'm getting into.  Even though I already paid $50, I'm actually kind of hoping it flops like SWTOR did and follows the same route to a f2p/sub game.  That's the payment model I prefer these days.

[schild]

Didn't get one. Also, don't think I signed up.

[sam, an eggplant]

Press NDA will be down at 10AM tomorrow morning, but the player NDA remains intact. So basically like Wildstar.

[Paelos]

Of course, because believe me you don't want to hear player opinions. Only the whitewashed payola press stories.

[Fabricated]

Do F13 staff count as press? :P

[sam, an eggplant]

I assume people with press access were given more nuanced guidelines on what they can and can't talk about, and they follow the rules.

The unwashed masses can't handle nuance. They can barely understand the concept of an NDA that covers everything. Beta forums are full of posts with subjects like "Streaming on twitch fri @ 6PM!" Of those that do understand the NDA, many don't give a sheisse and break it anyway, overwhelmingly because they want to become minicelebrities in their microcommunity of choice by shitting on the game. Beta leaks are rarely positive.

You need a ton of confidence to give up that protection. That's why nobody but blizzard cuts NDA in closed beta.

[Lucas]

You need a ton of confidence to give up that protection. That's why nobody but blizzard cuts NDA in closed beta.

It would be interesting to have a broader discussion about NDA in MMOs. In this day and age, with the current and potential playerbase interested in this genre,are they still so important? Or maybe you think that, precisely because of this day and age and this playerbase, you must have them or you risk too much?  Or you see them as a simple, "corporate" step that you have to take on your way to releasing it? (just like in any other field of commerce).

Most of us (meaning, F13) at this point think that NDA kept too much = shitty product under wraps OR, sometimes, excessive lack of confidence.

I mean, let's look at Wildstar and ESO: so, we all know they're not gonna reinvent the wheel; both of them have their particular angle and take on some sub-features. Do they really need to have an NDA to cover the same old stuff?

Are they still stuck with the concept "bad (and public) word of mouth during beta = lower sales"....Maybe the industry have data to prove it?

Yes, the power of the "word of mouth" can be great, but IMO, in this particular market (videogame) and sub-genre (MMO) is not that crucial anymore to justify having an NDA for so long.

[Paelos]

The problem with "industry data" in the video game industry is that games aren't comparable. You can't just assume that not having an NDA hurt sales because you have no idea what sales would have been with or without one. You can compare a game that does to a game that doesn't, but if you are comparing a Blizzard game to one from Curt Schilling, GUESS WHAT? You can't draw conclusions from that.

Companies do it because it's seen as managing a risk, and they LOOOOOOOOVE that shit in this day and age. Even when it hurts them.

[Senses]

Still.  I'm having a hard time understanding how having an NDA or not having one has ever made a difference to the success of a game.  Either the game is good, or it is bad but certainly the NDA hiding it for the longest amount of time possible will only ever benefit a bad game looking to make some money before they are exposed.  NDA's make sense in research and development or in cases where concepts and ideas may be stolen, but in video games, its no more than an outdated tool.  In this case, perception does match reality.  NDA's hide a bad product.

[Ingmar]

I think NDAs for closed betas are fine; you really don't want people telling everyone about systems that are still in flux and going into the game with wrong expectations. HOWEVER, I also think most MMOs need to have a reasonably length open beta to get the polish issues hammered out, with no NDA in place. We wouldn't be wringing our hands over the 'WHAT ARE THEY HIDING???' thing if people did that.

[Nija]

You'll hear the good things despite an NDA.

The only thing a NDA does is protect a bad product.

If you're not sure what to think about ESO at this exact moment, look at the first line of this post.