SWTOR

[Slayerik]

I don't get all the disappointment.

It's f13. Mocking mmo is standard. Everyone bitching about this game will be buying it at launch.

I won't.

[Cyrrex]

Only because you'll be pre-ordering and poopsocking your way through the pre-release weekend!

[Slayerik]

Yeah.......

Seriously, I'll have to hear from people one month after release that say it's still fun as hell or I'm not buying it. Been burned too many times in the past few years.

[UnSub]

It'll be different this time. This MMO won't hurt you. It'll treat you real good, real nice. Make you feel pretty. Take you out and show you a good time. 

[Sky]

If you compared hours played and enjoyment, most mmo's I've played have been worth the box purchase. In an industry that's pushing for 8 hour games, you've got to take value where you can find it. Most people will hate SWTOR because it isn't their nostalgic memory of what an mmo should be, but better.

[Modern Angel]

What if we hate it because we find Star Wars massively overrated?

Why yes I bought Star Trek Online, why do you ask? 

[Lakov_Sanite]

If you compared hours played and enjoyment, most mmo's I've played have been worth the box purchase. In an industry that's pushing for 8 hour games, you've got to take value where you can find it. Most people will hate SWTOR because it isn't their nostalgic memory of what an mmo should be, but better.

 

It's like...I can taste your hope, I want more.

[UnSub]

If you compared hours played and enjoyment, most mmo's I've played have been worth the box purchase. In an industry that's pushing for 8 hour games, you've got to take value where you can find it. Most people will hate SWTOR because it isn't their nostalgic memory of what an mmo should be, but better.

I thought about that, but have come to the conclusion that we don't want to play MMOs that are just worth the box purchase; we want MMOs that we feel are worth subscribing to for longer than 30 days. We want to be able to invest ourselves to a degree in a MMO title, while a single player title is all about rolling out a set experience. (Royal we, but anyway.)

Otherwise, what's the point of a MMO? It becomes a glorified chat room that we don't hang around in long enough to get to know anyone or a title with somewhat less than cutting edge game mechanics.

[Nebu]

The point of an MMO is character development and the visualization of the time vs power curve.  Add in a splash of slot machine and you have a start toward a successful title.  The difficult part is making character development a compelling enough exercise to grab the player for longer than the free month. 

I agree with you on this one Unsub.  With the ability to play and communicate using consoles, we now demand more from online MMO's.  I'm hoping this will be an overall good thing for the people that enjoy this medium.

[Musashi]

I think at this point, we would all settle for a game that doesn't make people log out in disgust due to lack of polish.  You're right, part of what we're hoping this game will be - if we're in the business of hope - is a MMO worthy of subscription.  But more than that, it's a multi-player game that we intend to play with friends.  So if those friends don't play, then one of the M's in MMO is knocked right off of there as far as we're concerned.  And of course since none of us or our friends are under any illusions about MMO launches at this point, all we want is something that doesn't break, or monumentally suck.  If that happens, then we can dick around with our friends for thirty days, and we're satisfied with our box purchase even if we don't decide it's good enough to subscribe.

[Sky]

I think at this point, we would all

Trying to sum up what most people thing ends in fail. Even in the small survey size of f13 the opinions and motivations for playing mmo vary wildly.

Well, I like EQ2 as a multiplayer game. I don't like the forced grouping dungeon stuff, but there is enough for a solo player that it's not a game-breaker.

For me, it's about the occasional interactions with folks who aren't too busy "achieving", even the (rare) PUG or PUR (I've done more raiding than grouping in EQ2 at this point). Most of all it's nice to have a real working 'economic sim'. Maybe those aren't enough reasons to justify a game being mmo over single player rpg for most people, but I like that, and the amount of content that an mmo generates over its life (please to point me to the single player rpg with as much content as EQ2, and the depth of character development and lewtz, etc, thx).

But my reasons are rare and it's probably not a good idea to develop for someone like me if you want years of solid subscriptions. But EQ2 got five years worth of 6mo subs out of me, and I'm still not entirely over it. The nice thing about that is by the time I get back, even my higher levels guys have some headroom or new stuff to do. I've not played an mmo at the cap since UO, so...yeah. Anomalous. (cosmically so, har).

[Lucas]

New, somewhat detailed article over at IGN UK, about Companion Characters (including a Q&A on the subject with Creative Director James Ohlen)

http://uk.pc.ign.com/articles/109/1093317p1.html

[eldaec]

The thing that stands out in that interview is how much time is spent discussing the companion's impact on the capability of the player, as opposed to the story arc of the player.

[Malakili]

The thing that stands out in that interview is how much time is spent discussing the companion's impact on the capability of the player, as opposed to the story arc of the player.

Its not really surprising.  IIRC one of the purposes (without having read the article here) is that they would make it easier to do group content with not a lot of...group.

[Lucas]

So, Sith Warrior page has been overhauled:

http://www.swtor.com/info/holonet/classes/sith-warrior

- Two specializations confirmed, Marauder and Juggernaut ;
- (I think) a few new pictures in the "field recon" section;

- First Companion Character (they're considered "associates" of the player) unveiled for the Sith Warrior: a female Twi'lek  called Vette.

http://www.swtor.com/info/holonet/biographies/vette (you get directed here also from the Sith Warrior page)

And here's the new Companion Characters section:

http://www.swtor.com/info/systems/companions

[Cadaverine]

The more I hear about the game, the more I think they're just making KotOR III with a graphical chat lobby bolted on to it.

[Ratman_tf]

The more I hear about the game, the more I think they're just making KotOR III with a graphical chat lobby bolted on to it.

 

[Paelos]

The more I hear about the game, the more I think they're just making KotOR III with a graphical chat lobby bolted on to it.

I'd still get three months out of that 

[Sky]

That's where I fail to see the problem, too. I mean, for me. For Bioware, well....that's why I intend to get in at launch and play through before they try to 'fix retention issues' and make it suck so mmogtards will enjoy it.

 

[Lakov_Sanite]

Shame kotorII was a buggy piece of shit.  Sadly Mass effect 1-2 took up kotor's mantle nd have been running with it, I'm really more interested in the ME world now than I am of this star wars universe. Honestly how much they are trying to make a centuries old world still resemble the world in the movies turns me off more than anything. 

[Triforcer]

The more I hear about the game, the more I think they're just making KotOR III with a graphical chat lobby bolted on to it.

Welcome to pages 1-103 of this thread.

[Stabs]

That's where I fail to see the problem, too. I mean, for me. For Bioware, well....that's why I intend to get in at launch and play through before they try to 'fix retention issues' and make it suck so mmogtards will enjoy it.

 

Protip: colostomy bags.

[Stormwaltz]

Shame kotorII was a buggy piece of shit.

My opinion and no one else's:

When Obsidian made KotOR2, they were contracted to release it by X date. It looks to me like it was too short a time, and LucasArts was unwilling to let it cook longer. My analogy was that KotOR1 was a pulp novel, but KotOR2 wanted to be literature. I admire that ambition, but it was doomed to failure given the business-side pressure.

[eldaec]

It was also a long winded buggy piece of shit.

Obsidian have a track record on the long winded thing.


It might be that if they'd had enough time, they'd have put in enough awesome to get you through all the Bao-dur. But I doubt it. What they needed was an editor with a pair of balls.

[Ingmar]

I don't remember any bugs particularly, just half the ending being missing.

[Lakov_Sanite]

kotorII basically pissed away all the goodwill kotor had built in me.  As such I am not looking at this mmo as though it has any sort of pedigree and just at face value.

At face value, this game is bland and derivative.

[Kageru]

The idea of extending gameplay by levelling up, gearing and specialising your NPC's is somewhat cool. Gives you a reason to replay content and different NPC's may make the level play differently. It would have been cooler if you could have customised the companions rather than having to select the pre-mades. But that's the cost of them wanting to attach endless dialogue you can't skip to everything. I imagine they'll keep them out of the lobby areas so people aren't contronted with 100 yvettes following their masters and giving them canned instructions on what they should be doing next.

In terms of adding anything to the MMO genre it all seems regressive. Though I'm sure the people who just wanted Kotor 3 will be happy to play for the free month.

[Shrike]

The thing that stands out in that interview is how much time is spent discussing the companion's impact on the capability of the player, as opposed to the story arc of the player.

Heck, after reading that, I'd rather play the companion than the main classes. Sounds like they get more than half the fun.

[Soln]

me too I don't have bad memories of KOTOR2, just KOTOR1 is all I really remember.

On this note, I wonder what it would be like to dig out or read about Jedi Knight and the other early games.  Some of those worlds are included in SWTOR it seems.

[Outlawedprod]

As your team grows and develops, new options, strategies, and tactics will become available. When you're headed to "The Tomb" on Belsavis, who will you bring to watch your back and help out the rest of your group? Do you bring the hard-as-nails soldier who will help keep your enemies' attention off of your group, the gifted battlefield medic who can help keep everyone alive, or do you bring your ever-faithful Astromech whose computer skills may be the only hope for completing the mission? These are just some of the choices you will make while you and your Companions roam the galaxy in Star Wars: The Old Republic.

Bioware has solved a problem recent mmo developers have struggled with: implementation of a LFG system.   No one else put it together but they got it.  Just make all interactions focused around NPCs.  This idea is so novel!  No longer will I need to say LF Tank or CC.  I'll just bust out 3 companions who have become my bitch and rock the dungeon/instance/quest solo.  If there is actual PVP in this game I can't wait to see what some of the nutcase multiboxers will come up with.

[UnSub]

BioWare talks smack to other MMO developers: "MMOs had no fun and no point... until we came along! Story story story!"

I'm sure there is some saying about something happening right after pride, but I can't quite remember it.

[Malakili]

I think bioware severely underestimates the appeal of the meta game in MMOs.

[Lakov_Sanite]

BioWare talks smack to other MMO developers: "MMOs had no fun and no point... until we came along! Story story story!"

I'm sure there is some saying about something happening right after pride, but I can't quite remember it.

Just talk to the warhammer online people.

[LK]

"We've always had that thought in the back of our heads: That Old Republic should be all the things we thought an MMO would be in the first place - which is all the parts of an RPG. Which means - and this is the most radical idea - it should just be fun. Like, just fun to play. You shouldn't be trying to ignore all of the content to get to the end as fast as possible."

I think that subject is a bit more harsh and misleading than Daniel's actual quote. He was speaking about the first MMOs (UO, EQ), and he's right. If he wanted to lessen the knee-jerk, he should have mentioned that later MMOs, especially WoW, did provide story. Oh he did? OK, let's take a look.

A lot of the better ones more recently have interesting content for the first few levels, you know - and some of them for the first 20 levels, whatever.

Uh, ok, that covers... Age of Conan. Is there another one that has it the first twenty levels? Or only the first few that is successful and worth comparing to? Still ignoring WoW, looks like, and the major successes in the industry.

But it's still not the interesting content you'd expect in a single-player game.

Something gobsmackingly stupid about that statement. Lots of thoughts on this. Not surprisingly that Daniel had little to say about PvP content or how MMOs can persist long term through them. Also, rerunning through a story will never have the same appeal or longevity as running through a game level (dungeon) again.

Also, 50 novels worth of voice-over and text must be absolute *hell* on their Localization & QA staff. I find it hard to believe that all that stuff they wrote is going to be as interconnected or polished as a novel's would be. Volume != Quality.

[Musashi]

That shit makes me sad for humanity.  So far off the mark.