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Topic: Job thread (Read 1014772 times)
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Chimpy
Terracotta Army
Posts: 10621
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Without a degree, it's pretty bleak. Which is too bad, since I probably learned more applicable skills in the time some kids were getting a non-applicable degree with all Ds and beer kegs. Living on the road and working every job under the sun should count as an education :)
I am not denying that is quite possibly the case.
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'Reality' is the only word in the language that should always be used in quotes.
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Sky
Terracotta Army
Posts: 32117
I love my TV an' hug my TV an' call it 'George'.
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Eh, life's not fair. I mostly roll with it, but it does get tiring when you're looking for jobs and hit a zero-tolerance hiring procedure. Not very interested in getting six figure debt (at least), working part-time while dedicating the next four years (at least) of my life to end up at 46 with job experience 4 years out of date and qualifications for an entry-level position.
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Viin
Terracotta Army
Posts: 6159
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I don't have a degree but I don't tell anyone that and it almost never comes up in interviews. YMMV.
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- Viin
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Sky
Terracotta Army
Posts: 32117
I love my TV an' hug my TV an' call it 'George'.
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If you're getting interviewed, it probably doesn't matter as much at that point. Problem is, it's a barrier to getting an interview, I was recently passed up for a job I am perfect for, and the kid working there knew it (kid who would've been my boss to start and requested my resume). But even with 12 years professional experience (plus way more amateur experience, of course), HR wouldn't interview because I didn't have a TWO YEAR degree. If you guys want to know why cybersecurity is a mess, there's reason #1.
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Lantyssa
Terracotta Army
Posts: 20848
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It leads to this:
Our AD network forces an exactly 8 character long password. Guess how hard that is to brute force?
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Hahahaha! I'm really good at this!
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Rasix
Moderator
Posts: 15024
I am the harbinger of your doom!
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So, anyone have experience working for Amazon? A friend of my wife has inquired if I'd be interested in working there (he recommened me for a job at Google which I didn't land, guess he's with Amazon now). I currently like my job, but it can't hurt to look I guess.
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-Rasix
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schild
Administrator
Posts: 60345
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If you're getting interviewed, it probably doesn't matter as much at that point. Problem is, it's a barrier to getting an interview, I was recently passed up for a job I am perfect for, and the kid working there knew it (kid who would've been my boss to start and requested my resume). But even with 12 years professional experience (plus way more amateur experience, of course), HR wouldn't interview because I didn't have a TWO YEAR degree. If you guys want to know why cybersecurity is a mess, there's reason #1. That's not reason #1 cybersecurity is a mess. It's reason #1 you didn't get a job. Get a fucking degree.
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Viin
Terracotta Army
Posts: 6159
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That's not reason #1 cybersecurity is a mess. It's reason #1 you didn't get a job.
Get a fucking degree.
Yeah, you uneducated ninny!
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- Viin
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Paelos
Contributor
Posts: 27075
Error 404: Title not found.
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Degrees are neat. I have 3.
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CPA, CFO, Sports Fan, Game when I have the time
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Hawkbit
Terracotta Army
Posts: 5531
Like a Klansman in the ghetto.
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I think his point was that it might not work out in his favor for the long-term. If you are starting in your mid-40s, taking on $50-75k when you are turning 50 likely isn't a wise idea, unless you have a degree and prospective job lined up to make that cash back in 10-15 years. Of course, if you can find a way to have someone else pay for it, then by all means, go for it. See if the AARP can help out.
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Nebu
Terracotta Army
Posts: 17613
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Degrees are neat. I have 3.
Degrees are overrated. I have many and bet that I make less money than nearly everyone on these forums.
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"Always do what is right. It will gratify half of mankind and astound the other."
- Mark Twain
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Rasix
Moderator
Posts: 15024
I am the harbinger of your doom!
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I think his point was that it might not work out in his favor for the long-term. If you are starting in your mid-40s, taking on $50-75k when you are turning 50 likely isn't a wise idea, unless you have a degree and prospective job lined up to make that cash back in 10-15 years. Of course, if you can find a way to have someone else pay for it, then by all means, go for it. See if the AARP can help out. A 2 year degree. Isn't that an Associate's Degree? You can get that at a community college. Comes with fries and a drink for $5.99.
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-Rasix
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Nebu
Terracotta Army
Posts: 17613
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A 2 year degree. Isn't that an Associate's Degree? You can get that at a community college. Comes with fries and a drink for $5.99.
An online 4 year degree is only slightly more expensive and equally worthless.
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"Always do what is right. It will gratify half of mankind and astound the other."
- Mark Twain
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Paelos
Contributor
Posts: 27075
Error 404: Title not found.
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Degrees are neat. I have 3.
Degrees are overrated. I have many and bet that I make less money than nearly everyone on these forums. Well yeah, but they look nice on a wall.
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CPA, CFO, Sports Fan, Game when I have the time
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Nebu
Terracotta Army
Posts: 17613
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Well yeah, but they look nice on a wall.
Mine look great in the bottom of a box in the back of a storage closet. I haven't seen my PhD since it was mailed to me. I hope no one ever asks to see it. I'm honestly not sure I even know which box it's in.
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"Always do what is right. It will gratify half of mankind and astound the other."
- Mark Twain
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Ingmar
Terracotta Army
Posts: 19280
Auto Assault Affectionado
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The 2 year degree shouldn't be expensive or difficult to get, it would probably be worth doing just because of being able to get your foot in the door for things. It also means should you decide to move on to a 4 year degree you can transfer units and finish that off in another 2 years. The amount of debt you'd pick up at a state school shouldn't be anywhere near 6 figures doing the transfer thing.
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The Transcendent One: AH... THE ROGUE CONSTRUCT. Nordom: Sense of closure: imminent.
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KallDrexx
Terracotta Army
Posts: 3510
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The 2 year degree shouldn't be expensive or difficult to get, it would probably be worth doing just because of being able to get your foot in the door for things. It also means should you decide to move on to a 4 year degree you can transfer units and finish that off in another 2 years. The amount of debt you'd pick up at a state school shouldn't be anywhere near 6 figures doing the transfer thing.
It still takes .... 2 years to get, and if you are looking for a job right now most likely you can't wait 2 years just to get a degree so your experience matters. If you don't work for 2 years, the worth of your experience drops a lot.
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Rasix
Moderator
Posts: 15024
I am the harbinger of your doom!
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A 2 year degree. Isn't that an Associate's Degree? You can get that at a community college. Comes with fries and a drink for $5.99.
An online 4 year degree is only slightly more expensive and equally worthless. Yep. Then why all of the pissing and moaning? People know the rules of the game, so play ball or just get used to the fact that some jobs are out of your grasp. (Not really directing this at you, btw). Online degrees annoy the shit out of me, but if they get you in the door, you'd be a fool not to consider it.
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-Rasix
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Ingmar
Terracotta Army
Posts: 19280
Auto Assault Affectionado
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The 2 year degree shouldn't be expensive or difficult to get, it would probably be worth doing just because of being able to get your foot in the door for things. It also means should you decide to move on to a 4 year degree you can transfer units and finish that off in another 2 years. The amount of debt you'd pick up at a state school shouldn't be anywhere near 6 figures doing the transfer thing.
It still takes .... 2 years to get, and if you are looking for a job right now most likely you can't wait 2 years just to get a degree so your experience matters. If you don't work for 2 years, the worth of your experience drops a lot. Community college does not take up nearly so much time that you'd be unable to work during it. Especially not as an adult.
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The Transcendent One: AH... THE ROGUE CONSTRUCT. Nordom: Sense of closure: imminent.
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Sky
Terracotta Army
Posts: 32117
I love my TV an' hug my TV an' call it 'George'.
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A 2 year degree. Isn't that an Associate's Degree? You can get that at a community college. Comes with fries and a drink for $5.99.
An AS for that one job. Most things I'm seeing require a BS. Even so, it's a worst-case scenario if I have to take two years off and accrue that kind of debt (tuition + cost of living, you know house and truck payments, insurance, etc) and even that is assuming I can do it full-time. Otherwise, the debt might be less but the time goes way up. And it's a mostly useless degree unless you pursue the bachelor follow-up and as I mentioned and Kail re-mentions, it's 2 years of experience stagnation. I'm not seeing how the money and time involved are not a big deal when I'm in my forties. If I were in my twenties, I'd be living in Villingen right now. And I did mis-type, I meant 5-figure, not 6-figure :) Ras: sorry if it's coming across whiny, I find it more of a fascinating thing than anything, that a kid out of community college with an associate degree can get an interview over someone with a dozen years experience with exactly the right position that was told to submit a resume by the admin at a job fair I was fact-finding (not job seeking). I'd be whining if I were unemployed right now
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Ingmar
Terracotta Army
Posts: 19280
Auto Assault Affectionado
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I think you may be way off base on what it would take to get that AA/AS degree. At least here CA, community college is *extremely* cheap, you take the classes at night so you keep working, etc. The work won't really take you much time because you're going to be far far above the average person they're aiming it at just via life experience. Even the lower-tier state 4 year colleges here offer a lot of classes at night, when I was doing some grad work before I decided it sucked, I had a ton of classes in the evenings with people working full-time jobs. I wouldn't imagine the situation in NY to be much different.
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The Transcendent One: AH... THE ROGUE CONSTRUCT. Nordom: Sense of closure: imminent.
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Lantyssa
Terracotta Army
Posts: 20848
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I'm not seeing how the money and time involved are not a big deal when I'm in my forties. If I were in my twenties, I'd be living in Villingen right now.
Speaking of, I need to get that cover letter typed up. Thanks!
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Hahahaha! I'm really good at this!
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Salamok
Terracotta Army
Posts: 2803
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Most of the tech positions I see allow for substitution of experience for college on a year for year basis. Unfortunately most job sites don't allow for this in a job matching filter and if you don't have a degree it will not match you up, no matter how much experience you have. The Work in Texas site is like this, on the advice of the Texas Workforce Commission people I ended up just putting down a 4 year degree on the qualifications profile page then not putting one on my resume or applications so that it would match me up for the positions I wanted to apply for.
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IainC
Developers
Posts: 6538
Wargaming.net
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There will likely be another vacancy for a QA tester coming up soon and also a vacancy for an animator in addition to the roles I posted about earlier. If you decide to apply then hit me up via PM as I get a referral bonus if you end up getting hired.
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murdoc
Terracotta Army
Posts: 3036
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Most of the tech positions I see allow for substitution of experience for college on a year for year basis. The job I current have looked at my resume this way. I'm working for a smaller (450-500 employee) oil and gas company and my boss has come right out and said that we WILL get bought out eventually and since that will happen he'll make sure I get as much training and as many certifications as I want so I can move on afterwards (I currently have no degrees and miniminal certifications - none in the field that I am currently "specializing" in) They hired me with what they considered 10 years IT experience, which resulted in a fairly good wage, almost 6 weeks of vacation/designated days off and enough stock options that I should be mortgage and debt free within 4 years and it all started with having a good 'fit' interview with HR before I had any sort of a technical interview.
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Have you tried the internet? It's made out of millions of people missing the point of everything and then getting angry about it
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Sjofn
Terracotta Army
Posts: 8286
Truckasaurus Hands
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A 2 year degree. Isn't that an Associate's Degree? You can get that at a community college. Comes with fries and a drink for $5.99.
An AS for that one job. Most things I'm seeing require a BS. Even so, it's a worst-case scenario if I have to take two years off and accrue that kind of debt (tuition + cost of living, you know house and truck payments, insurance, etc) and even that is assuming I can do it full-time. Otherwise, the debt might be less but the time goes way up. And it's a mostly useless degree unless you pursue the bachelor follow-up and as I mentioned and Kail re-mentions, it's 2 years of experience stagnation. You should look up your local community college (in NJ I believe every county had at least one, but who knows about New York? I sure don't.). The tuition is almost certainly going to be pretty low. My local one here in CA is $24 a credit (plus about $45 in fees, although I bet the books are ridiculous, as books always are). Community colleges have the day classes for the kids that aren't going to a four year school for various reasons, but the night classes? They're exactly for people like you. Grown ups with jobs and shit to do. Hell, you could probably take at least some of the classes online. I took a theatre appreciation course online. It was very strange. It had a forum! I had to fight the urge to flame the 50 year old stay-at-home moms for being idiots.
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God Save the Horn Players
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sinij
Terracotta Army
Posts: 2597
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It leads to this:
I would not recommend using this practice to set your passwords. Look up dictionary attack if you are curious why.
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Eternity is a very long time, especially towards the end.
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sinij
Terracotta Army
Posts: 2597
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. Most things I'm seeing require a BS. Why not just buy a degree from a mill since you only need it to pass "degree check"?
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Eternity is a very long time, especially towards the end.
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Merusk
Terracotta Army
Posts: 27449
Badge Whore
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It leads to this:
I would not recommend using this practice to set your passwords. Look up dictionary attack if you are curious why.
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The past cannot be changed. The future is yet within your power.
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Lantyssa
Terracotta Army
Posts: 20848
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I have my own method. I just thought the timing for Sky's comment was amusing.
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Hahahaha! I'm really good at this!
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Bunk
Contributor
Posts: 5828
Operating Thetan One
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Since we appear to be schilling for referral bonuses helping our online friends find work, here's the latest postings from my parent company. A lot of them are sales positions, but there are also several data and web developer spots. If anyone has experince with Siebel, we deffinitely have jobs for that. https://tbe.taleo.net/NA11/ats/careers/searchResults.jsp?org=MOVE&cws=1
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"Welcome to the internet, pussy." - VDL "I have retard strength." - Schild
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Sky
Terracotta Army
Posts: 32117
I love my TV an' hug my TV an' call it 'George'.
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I'm seeing a disturbing lack of Vancouver in that list. Vancouver - it's Seattle without the America.
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Bunk
Contributor
Posts: 5828
Operating Thetan One
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"Welcome to the internet, pussy." - VDL "I have retard strength." - Schild
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JWIV
Terracotta Army
Posts: 2392
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Well - if you live on the East Coast between VA and NY, currently unemployed and looking for some temp work, and unafraid of 6x12 hr shifts on the other side of a union picket line, I've got an opportunity for you.
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Salamok
Terracotta Army
Posts: 2803
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Since we appear to be schilling for referral bonuses helping our online friends find work, here's the latest postings from my parent company. A lot of them are sales positions, but there are also several data and web developer spots. If anyone has experince with Siebel, we deffinitely have jobs for that. https://tbe.taleo.net/NA11/ats/careers/searchResults.jsp?org=MOVE&cws=1Any idea what the backend web dev position pay range is? or even the ux director? edit - Your company and products line up with my work experience in a pretty freakish manner. I'd consider it if it was enough of a pay jump to cover the move and my wife's loss of job. edit2 - I should probably quote the correct link.
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« Last Edit: August 12, 2011, 09:38:35 AM by Salamok »
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