Rift: Planes of Telara

[Ghambit]

Build looks decent enough, i don't know what's "samurai" about it though :P

Whadaya mean??  Paragon is pure Samurai.  A blademaster duel-wielder, wears armor, follows "the way."  I guess one could say they're more of a kung fu class, but I cant wrap my head around wearing plate armor and doing kung fu at the same time.  And if I wanted Ninja, I'd go rogue.  Hmmm, all this talk makes we wanna build some kinda Shaolin Monk toon now, only heh... there's no unarmed class.

Anyways, the dmg. at paragon's top ability is just  .  Also, I like the amount of movement speed in that build as time goes on... by endgame you should be near flying around the room, which speeds leveling also.  Champs 5% strength and bull rush is hard to pass up, although paragon gets a better charge ability later on (lvl 30 something).  The Riftblade simply adds a bit more dodge, parry and movement (which plays into paragon's counterstriking), along with early game ranged attacks, and "fork."  Also a few more CCs.  Overall, methinks a good build for both leveling AND PvP if played right.  Endgame??  You'd have to play it like a CC-rogue in armor unless you switched souls.  I'd make Beastmaster (surprisingly tanky) and Warlord as the last two souls, likely making beastmaster the main.

Also, after studying this tree... there's no way in hell any other class can tank with a purely tank-specced Warrior at endgame (in long fights).  Clerics come closest probably.

[Sky]

The soul/role system is probably the only thing I like about the game. Added to my list of a dream mmo features, along with Cryptic's character creation.

Waiting for someone to get content right.  

Ze uber build

[Xilren's Twin]

Something that all this soul/role shifting will do is change both group dynamics as well as overall character spread.  In terms of groups, now its not a matter of waiting around for a cleric, or "who wants to play their cleric tonight" in guild chat, but more just grab some friends and figure out "who wants to be the primary healer in this part" on the fly, and you can switch off whenever.  It should lead to much less day to day play frustrations of seeking optimal groups or including/excluding certains classes automatically.  In terms of overall characters, now regular players will probably just have 4; one of each class.  That's it; no more alt-itis.

The one part which still may lead to more specialization is gear.  If "the best" gear is soul focused and not class focused, that could undermine the flexibility the system has now.  Do we know what their goal is with that?  (the fear i've seen to this point has been primarily just base class aimed with stat bonuses, but this is fairly low end stuff still.  Do they have gear that gives bonuses to soul specific skills, or even ability bonuses (i.e. +5% fire damage))

[Modern Angel]

Don't think so. Gear seems incredibly class focused rather than soul focused. I can see a bit of overlap between caster clerics/mages and rogues/warriors with MAYBE a bit of melee cleric/rogue; I think on the last one the melee cleric souls have talents giving attack power for wisdom so that's probably eliminated.

[Threash]

Ze uber build

No rage of the north? that is a must have imo.

[Threash]

Don't think so. Gear seems incredibly class focused rather than soul focused. I can see a bit of overlap between caster clerics/mages and rogues/warriors with MAYBE a bit of melee cleric/rogue; I think on the last one the melee cleric souls have talents giving attack power for wisdom so that's probably eliminated.

All of the melee cleric souls have a caster stat = melee stat mechanic.  As far as i can tell all warriors are str based, all rogues are dex based, all clerics are wis based and all mages are int based and gear is standard through the base classes.

[Modern Angel]

Right. BUT, there's still some overlap. Such as:

Melee classes are going to have DPS as their main weapon stat, no matter what. They won't roll on a Wisdom mace but Rogues still get AP from Strength, Warriors get Crit from Dexterity. Obviously those aren't ideal but it's not going to break down as neatly as current WoW, where polearms (for instance) are universally all Dex/Stam and Strength classes shy away from it.

Somewhat less worried about caster weapons but the same basic breakdown applies. I'd have to double check on the rates but if Wisdom mana regen rates are at all significant in Rift I could see a strong argument for it being more important to Mages, given just how meaningless mana is to healers. Unless staves are Mage only in which case lol MA shut up.

[Sheepherder]

...pure Samurai.  A blademaster duel-wielder...

 

[Draegan]

Anyone built a viable "Magetank?"  I remember back in vanilla WoW, in 20 and 40 mans, the mages always ended up assigning a tanking mage + healer (usually me, during Ony, Rags, and some of BWL) to handle adds, etc. I had a fully Arcane Specced (back when no one went Arcane), gnome-architect that could tank better than many rogues if played right.  I played with it a BIT in Rift but I really didnt study far enough up the tree (especially factoring in the 3rd soul), to see if there was enough AOE nukage, mana, and dmg. mitigation (shields, resistance, etc.) to make it worthwhile.  Also, it might make more sense up the Warrior trees with AE threat, assuming they get an AOE nuke somewhere in there.


Did you only have to pay $5 for the pre-order?

First: Mage /Rogue tank in WOW?  What?  There is no "Mage Tank" in Rift.

Second: Yes.  But I plopped down 10 for some random reason.

[Draegan]

Furthermore, even if you feel fucked in your base class (warrior, rogue, etc.), there's such specialization within the sub-classes that you can just about design something totally "un-base class-like."   So even whining about being a plain ol' Warrior is kinda  'cause I can go healer, buffer/battlereser, ranged mana sink, dual-wield stancemaster, controller, DOTter, and on and on.  You might not be perfect in base roles, but you'll have a place.  And often when the mantras of these base roles are broken, people come up with better, more ingenius strategies to compensate.

Now, if Trion can code in the need to make use of these strategies, then they'll have cracked the issue of balance.  This all depends on their level designers really.

I honestly don't think you've played Rift at all.

[Modern Angel]

It's Ghambit. He's lovable but he's been borderline unintelligible for a really long time.

[Draegan]

True but he's extra frothy today.

[Morfiend]

...pure Samurai.  A blademaster duel-wielder...

 

Caught that too did you?

[Sky]

No rage of the north? that is a must have imo.

Oops, yeah only supposed to be 4 in Sentinel.

[Rasix]

...pure Samurai.  A blademaster duel-wielder...

 

Caught that too did you?

I wasn't going to say thing, but that somewhat jumped out at me.

[Sheepherder]

Caught that too did you?

That and "katanas are totally the sharpest and strongest sword ever forged" drive me up the fucking wall.

[Zetor]

Whatever, my katana [dual]wielding mech is totally gonna pwn your tank.

Re mage / rogue tanks in WOW: they exist, frequently after the tank dies in a pug. They only last for about 30 seconds though (cooldowns included). 

[Threash]

I've seen warlocks tank semi successfully in their demon form.

[Ghambit]

...pure Samurai.  A blademaster duel-wielder...

 

Caught that too did you?

I wasn't going to say thing, but that somewhat jumped out at me.

You caught shit... Samurai ALWAYS have two blades on them.  They prefer to singularly use the katana, but often would duel wield with their smaller sword (which NEVER leaves their side, unless they throw it).  pfft

True but he's extra frothy today.

Damned Northerners brought their diseases to my southern paradise and now I'm sick.  Drugs are a helluva drug.

[Modern Angel]

Why in the fuck are you talking about samurai in the present tense?

[Sheepherder]

You caught shit... Samurai ALWAYS have two blades on them.  They prefer to singularly use the katana, but often would duel wield with their smaller sword (which NEVER leaves their side, unless they throw it).  pfft

You went and did it.


Point out the one with sword in each hand, please.

In fact, I'm willing to bet the only reference to a dual-wielding samurai you will be able to find is The Book of Five Rings: My Penis is Thiiiiiis Big, by Miyamoto Musashi.

[Nebu]

Point out the one with sword in each hand, please.

He's over there... next to Waldo! 

[Ghambit]

The wakizashi were used as backup weapons and as tools to decapitate defeated enemies, and sometimes to commit ritual suicide. The master swordsman Miyamoto Musashi (宮本 武蔵, 1584–1645) was known to have wielded a katana and a wakizashi in respective hands in order to fight with two weapons simultaneously.

You caught shit... Samurai ALWAYS have two blades on them.  They prefer to singularly use the katana, but often would duel wield with their smaller sword (which NEVER leaves their side, unless they throw it).  pfft

You went and did it.

In fact, I'm willing to bet the only reference to a dual-wielding samurai you will be able to find is The Book of Five Rings: My Penis is Thiiiiiis Big, by Miyamoto Musashi.

Ya?  So what.  Musashi was the greatest Samurai of all times.  Are you implying that his dual-wielding style was somehow blasphemous?

Oh yah!  And!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L8n3544zeLw
 

[Sky]

Ah, beaten to the silly Tom Cruise samurai. Dammit.

I guess I'll have to post support for 2h samurai instead.


Lulz for Michael Angelo.

[Sheepherder]

I need to learn that "Hold katana by hilt, hold wakizashi by sheath" fighting style.

You are aware that there is some debate as to whether Musashi was actually referring to fighting with both weapons simultaneously, or whether he just meant ambidexterity, or using the second sword for parrying, right?

[Hawkbit]

Depending on style, the sheath is as much of a weapon (albeit defensive) as the blade.

[Threash]

THERE ARE NO SAMURAI IN RIFT.  Lets move along now.

[Xuri]

But there could be! Or should be. Or would there? be?

[Mrbloodworth]

Only one.

[sam, an eggplant]

If I made a MMO, I would have fairy ninjas, like wizardry.

CANE OF CORPUS!

[Lantyssa]

[Ashamanchill]

Where's WUA? This samurai argument just doesn't feel right without him.

[Falconeer]

Ze uber build

No rage of the north? that is a must have imo.

This is something that bothers me. I am enjoying the game, but the multi-class part is a bit underwhelming so far to me. Past the excitement of getting a pet for my tank at level 2, or some ranger skills for my saboteur rogue, I realized that because of how the system works you get a plethora of low-level skills when you get a new soul that don't seem that useful at all, more like clones of low-level ones you already have in your main soul.

More, going up in trees, it still seems to me like the top skill/branches/roots for any given class are usually worth enough pursuing, as opposed to low or barely-mid-level shit from other souls. So, while I really dig the system (and I am totally voicing a fear, not talking about an experience I couldn't have by playing a capped beta), I am concerned it won't really be viable to do that much of a mix, as spreading points gives you plenty of useless skills (which is kind of a turnoff to begin with) while instead keeping you from getting those delicious top rank skills.

Even in quoted Modern Angel's example, he didn't really spend that much in other trees apparently.

So, since I want to keep liking Rift, could someone reassure me and tell me why I am wrong?

[Zetor]

IIRC you need to spend points in your 'not-main' tree; you can only have as many points in a tree as your level [and you get more than 1 pt / level now]. But yeah - you'll spend most of your points in one tree, trispecs are probably going to be gimped outside some gimmicky pvp builds [maybe].


edit: +50 points to sam for the cane of corpus reference. Time to reinstall wiz6-8, methinks 

[Falconeer]

IIRC you need to spend points in your 'not-main' tree; you can only have as many points in a tree as your level

Well, that's only if you don't want to wait. But 51 points for 50 levels are telling me that I can fill a single soul as long as I can wait a couple of levels without spending points (in a useless secondary-tertiary tree). That's what I felt like doing with my 3rd toon in the beta. After playing around with multi-souls not to be cockblocked, with my 3rd char I was annoyed at the low level skills from other trees cluttering my hotbars and I decided to wait and get more significant perks instead of just spending for the sake of it.