Android!

[Thrawn]

Could anyone recommend an app for facebook chat? I've been trying Go!Chat for the last couple of days but it's really klling my battery. I assume this might be the case with any of them, though.

I use eBuddy and it combines my Facebook chat, Google chat and a bunch of other options into it just fine.  Can be a bit of a battery hog though if you don't set it to only check for messages every 15 minutes.  Also Trillian has an Android app in beta, I haven't look at it myself but I'm told it works very well but the interface is currently pretty clunky.

[Amarr HM]

Started using this app called whatsapp not sure if it links through Facebook, it links via your cell number.

[IainC]

Got my Milestone 2 this morning and have been playing with it all day. It's a definite departure from my well-loved G1 but it's growing on me. I can take or leave all the Motoblur stuff to be honest - I don't desperately need random people's Facebook updates pushed to my home screen. I've spent more time in pushing widgets around than I have actually using the phone to do useful things with. I do like the resizable widgets though - that's a very nice touch.

Physically the phone feels chunky, well made and large although lined up next to my G1 there's almost no difference between the case sizes - the G1 is slightly thicker and a shade narrower but not by very much. I guess it's the huge screen on the Milestone that makes it feel much bigger than it is. The screen is very responsive and super-sharp. The Motorola keyboard isn't as nice as the one on the G1, for a start it only has four rows despite being considerably larger; so numbers need an alt press to use which is annoying, this is the same on most current gen smartphones with keyboards though so it's not just Motorola. The keys are slightly dimpled but not as well defined as the G1's keyboard. I guess I'll get used to the feel soon enough although typing on the G1 is a much nicer experience. For some reason, alt and shift buttons are only present on the left side of the keyboard so using those in combination with keys that are normally pressed by your left thumb can be a chore. The slider is slightly stiff but otherwise smooth and solid feeling.

Motorola need to be a bit more generous with their bundled accessories too; there is no slip-case or bag for the phone, no screen protectors and the included USB cable is laughably short. I bought the docking station separately and that too has the same very short USB cable included. It's irritating to need a hub or an extender to be able to use the thing comfortably while it's docked or charging. The camera seems fine and it's nice that Motorola don't have the same hangups about multiple ports that HTC do and the phone has a 3.5mm stereo jack as well as a USB port so I can listen to music while the phone is charging.

I like the phone and I'm sure it will grow on me, the Motoblur UI is not too intrusive once you bin all the stuff you aren't interested in and the Grand Unified Contact List of Doom is actually pretty nice once you get over the initial shock of the size of your combined social media networks. Linking profiles from multiple networks is very handy indeed.

[Nerf]

Holy shit there are a lot of android tablets out right now.

Has anyone used one of these yet?  So far these two both look pretty good, but it's damned hard to figure out what some offer over others with shitty chinese descriptions of everything.

Daves previous link: http://www.ankaka.com/imito-im7android-21-tablet-pcmid-wifi-7tft-touch-screen-800mhz-cpu-256-ddr2-ram-webcam-builtin-2g_p46876.html?zenid=el9mmuqb9861ibn4g9lkg6g996

This one:  http://www.singingegg.com/cube-u6-mid-cpu-telechip-8902-arm11-core-800mhz-os-android-2-1.html?___store=default

They seem identical to me, except for the second one looking like an iPad, with will be funny when the apple-fanboi father in law comes around.

[MahrinSkel]

They look pretty identical except for casing, and might be the same underneath.  There's also this 10" model, which is pretty equivalent except that the screen is larger, the processor is 1GHz, and the battery life is about half (so you'd probably have to tether it to a wall wart).  At about the size of a hardback novel (rather than the paper-back of the 7-inch) it's at the upper edge of a comfortable couch-surfing device.

Looks like prices are coming down quickly on Android tablets, too.  That first one was $170 when I first linked it.

--Dave

[Quinton]

I'd be a bit nervous about < 1GHz ARMv7 (like ARM9/ARM11 solutions) and < 512MB ram for a good tablet experience. 

Right now the typical Froyo smartphone hardware platform for android is:
- 800MHz-1GHz ARMv7 CPU w/ FPU  & NEON (MSM8x50, MSM7x30, Samsung S5PC11x, TI OMAP36xx, etc)
- 384-512MB ram
- 800x480 wvga display
- OpenGL ES 2 capable GPU

If you increase display size, you're going to increase memory pressure and CPU/GPU load, probably wanting something a bit beefier.

Samsung's Galaxy Tab platform is similar to their Galaxy S platform, but with a 1024x600 display, and seems to be pretty solid (the S5PC11x has about 2x the memory bus of the MSM8x50 and OMAP36xx and a pretty snappy GPU).

I'd be cautious of the ARM9 based solutions, they're almost guaranteed to be underpowered.  A good ARM11 design with a decent GPU and memory subsystem might be usable if the resolution is not too over the top.

[Nerf]

Isn't the galaxy tab several hundred higher?  Really looking for something sub $250.

If I find an 800ghz 512MB ram tab, should that be acceptable?

[NiX]

Isn't the galaxy tab several hundred higher?  Really looking for something sub $250.

If I find an 800ghz 512MB ram tab, should that be acceptable?

I think the point Quinton is trying to make is that you'll get what you pay for.

[MahrinSkel]

I'd be cautious of the ARM9 based solutions, they're almost guaranteed to be underpowered.  A good ARM11 design with a decent GPU and memory subsystem might be usable if the resolution is not too over the top.

But we're talking about a *very* narrow application spread, something you use to surf the web and maybe play a few games while sitting on the couch ignoring what the significant other is watching on TV (but ignoring it while "being together", which being at your desk with headphones on would not be).  Android phones just don't have the battery for hours of continual use (and the screens are too small), laptops are overkill, etc.  We're not after the full Android experience, just a web appliance with some flexibility.

--Dave

[Vaiti]

While doing abit of research I came across an interesting tidbit of information with alot of these Chinese tabs.
The ones you see like that Cube U6 which state a speed higher than 600mhz are likely overclocked. Alot of these Chinese tabs are using a Telechip 890x. Which are typically natively clocked at around 600mhz, getting those higher speeds involves overclocking it.

Not a huge concern maybe, but battery life is going to pay a price for that OCing, and I just wouldn't think the device would be as stable. Also would appear Telechip 890x series can't handle Froyo well if at all. They can however handle video at 720p and in some cases 1080p with no problems at all. So if you just want a little video player you'll be ok.

[NiX]

But we're talking about a *very* narrow application spread, something you use to surf the web and maybe play a few games while sitting on the couch ignoring what the significant other is watching on TV (but ignoring it while "being together", which being at your desk with headphones on would not be).  Android phones just don't have the battery for hours of continual use (and the screens are too small), laptops are overkill, etc.  We're not after the full Android experience, just a web appliance with some flexibility.

--Dave

Haha, you mentioned games in an Android thread.

[Amarr HM]

Market doesn't necessarily need games when it has free emulators. Also he's correct about the couch thing.

[Quinton]

I'd be cautious of the ARM9 based solutions, they're almost guaranteed to be underpowered.  A good ARM11 design with a decent GPU and memory subsystem might be usable if the resolution is not too over the top.

But we're talking about a *very* narrow application spread, something you use to surf the web and maybe play a few games while sitting on the couch ignoring what the significant other is watching on TV (but ignoring it while "being together", which being at your desk with headphones on would not be).  Android phones just don't have the battery for hours of continual use (and the screens are too small), laptops are overkill, etc.  We're not after the full Android experience, just a web appliance with some flexibility.

The web browser is one of the more memory and compute intensive apps on the platform (modern websites tend to assume you have desktop-ish resources and sure you can burn 100MB on javascript and images and crap to display that page, why not!).

So the answer, of course, is "it depends."  For some specific workloads, you may be totally happy with a device that's a little underpowered -- a lot of it depends on what you want the device to do and how responsive you want it to be.  The general spec space I sketched out above is to fit the "device can run several apps and be reasonably responsive" expectation that many users have.

Other things you tend to give up for some of the cheaper tablets include:
- good touchscreen (resistive touchscreens are not so great and not multitouch)
- quality of display (not just number of pixels, but bit-depth, backlight brightness, contrast, etc)
- various peripherals

Again, for certain specific cases you may be quite happy, but as a general use device, I'd be wary of the current crop of $100-200 Android tablets, as most I've heard of sound rather underpowered.  My advice would be to try one first (of course I'd advise that with much more expensive consumer electronics devices too).

[ffc]

Not to barge in on tablet discussions but relevant to tablets and phones, mobile Google Docs editing is here!  Happy happy happy

[Yegolev]

Awesome.

[MahrinSkel]

So, I'm playing around with programming for Android.  Can anyone recommend a primer for the framework beyond "Java for Dummies" and the android.com documentation?

--Dave

[fuser]

New update on Nexus One, froyo?

Bah a new build of 2.2.1 

[MuffinMan]

I came here to thank whoever mentioned the TuneIn Radio app and I now see that I'm crazy because search comes up with nothing. I mean, all radio pretty much plays the same shit but now I can listen to the stations from back home.

[KallDrexx]

Google Finally has released a Google Reader app!

[Draegan]

Finally!

Installing.

Edit:
This app needs a widget or a way to notify me of new messages like emails do.

[Quinton]

Nexus S - Enjoy!

http://www.google.com/nexus
http://googleblog.blogspot.com/2010/12/introducing-nexus-s-with-gingerbread.html
http://developer.android.com/sdk/android-2.3-highlights.html

New Gingerbread SDK/NDK (including full native app support for gamesdev)
http://android-developers.blogspot.com/2010/12/android-23-platform-and-updated-sdk.html
http://developer.android.com/sdk/ndk/index.html

Review:
http://techcrunch.com/2010/12/06/google-nexus-s-review/

[bhodi]

An integrated sip stack! Now only if I could convince my bosses it'd be worth selling sip accounts for use on android.

NFC tech is absurdly useful, if could ever get traction. Sadly, I'm not sure it will.

[ffc]

As part of the Nexus brand, Nexus S delivers what we call a “pure Google” experience: unlocked, unfiltered access to the best Google mobile services and the latest and greatest Android releases and updates.

Here's side-by-side specs of the Nexus One and Nexus S.  No removable storage is odd but 16GB is where I would top out instead of a 32GB microsd card anyway.  The Nexus line offering clean Android installs not subject to the manufacturer/carrier letting the phone die by refusing to (timely) push out updates is going to be my Android preference.  IIRC, Samsung was guilty of this with an older Android phone. 

With the Nexus S on T-Mobile (no contract T-Mobile plans are cheaaaap) I'm one sim card change away which may be too tempting to pass up.  If it was available straight from Google there is no way I could have stopped myself from clicking until I was $530 poorer which is exactly what happened with my Nexus One.

[Quinton]

An integrated sip stack! Now only if I could convince my bosses it'd be worth selling sip accounts for use on android.

NFC tech is absurdly useful, if could ever get traction. Sadly, I'm not sure it will.

1. Put NFC in millions of smartphones
2. ?
3. Profit

We actually have some more concrete plans, but getting the hardware out there is an important step.  There are a *lot* of cool things you can do with it beyond just tag scanning and payments.

[Quinton]

Some video of Andy Rubin talking about Android, Google Maps Mobile 5 (vectors! caching!), and showing off a sneak peek at a development build of Honeycomb on prototype tablet hardware:
http://video.allthingsd.com/video/google-andy-rubin-with-motorola-tablet-prototype/4BAACA69-E8CD-4120-BE7C-DD8703C3FEEA

More general Android interview stuff (no demos):
http://video.allthingsd.com/video/google-andy-rubin-highlights-at-dive-into-mobile/D2214853-E3EB-44B0-B641-47DB98994533

Some stills here:
http://www.crunchgear.com/2010/12/07/video-and-screenshots-of-the-motopad-with-android-3-0/

[KallDrexx]

I thought Gingerbread was supposed to have a major UI overhaul.  So far from what I am seeing, I'm pretty underwhelmed.  Do any of the UI changes help actually address the horrible issue of UI inconsistencies between apps?  And does the stock launcher still stutter like hell.  I find these more important than SIP and NFC personally.

Although the new copy/paste bars mean I can actually copy and paste without wanting to throw my phone across the room (well maybe, depending on how it handles multiple lines)

[Quinton]

Rumors are different than announced features.

Gingerbread includes significant performance work, which improves responsiveness across the board, and a lot of improvements to the SDK/NDK/runtime which should simply and improve performance of games and other apps that care about low latency.  There are a lot of small improvements to look and feel, and a lot of incremental improvements to the OS, but no, 2.3 is not a major UI overhaul.

[MahrinSkel]

I thought Gingerbread was supposed to have a major UI overhaul.  So far from what I am seeing, I'm pretty underwhelmed.  Do any of the UI changes help actually address the horrible issue of UI inconsistencies between apps?  And does the stock launcher still stutter like hell.  I find these more important than SIP and NFC personally.

Although the new copy/paste bars mean I can actually copy and paste without wanting to throw my phone across the room (well maybe, depending on how it handles multiple lines)

Strangely enough, there is more UI consistency between low-end apps built by 1 man shops than there is between major commercial apps.  The small shop uses XML-based UI that looks almost exactly like the core functionality, while the larger operations try to differentiate themselves by coding up their own UI in Java.

--Dave

[NiX]

Quinton, why does Google hate Canada?

[Quinton]

Quinton, why does Google hate Canada?

Is this about Nexus S availability or are we oppressing Canada in some other way recently?  If the former, I hope to see NS in more markets beyond US/UK in the future, but we don't pre-announce that sort of thing, usually.

[Quinton]

I thought Gingerbread was supposed to have a major UI overhaul.  So far from what I am seeing, I'm pretty underwhelmed.  Do any of the UI changes help actually address the horrible issue of UI inconsistencies between apps?  And does the stock launcher still stutter like hell.  I find these more important than SIP and NFC personally.

Although the new copy/paste bars mean I can actually copy and paste without wanting to throw my phone across the room (well maybe, depending on how it handles multiple lines)

Strangely enough, there is more UI consistency between low-end apps built by 1 man shops than there is between major commercial apps.  The small shop uses XML-based UI that looks almost exactly like the core functionality, while the larger operations try to differentiate themselves by coding up their own UI in Java.

I assumed he was talking about UI inconsistencies between *our* apps, which honestly, is kinda embarrassing in places.  We're certainly due for a system-wide look'n'feel overhaul, but this was not something on the table for 2.3.

[KallDrexx]

I assumed he was talking about UI inconsistencies between *our* apps, which honestly, is kinda embarrassing in places.  We're certainly due for a system-wide look'n'feel overhaul, but this was not something on the table for 2.3.

Yeah that, and a gallery app that doesn't suck for what a gallery is meant to do (e.g. organize photos)

[rattran]

Gallery is my only continual annoyance on the Droid. It's pretty wonky at the best of times.

[Quinton]

Yeah that, and a gallery app that doesn't suck for what a gallery is meant to do (e.g. organize photos)

The stock gallery app needs to die.  I'm surprised there are no third party replacements -- there's a ton of room for improvement and I can't think of any reason why everyone is waiting for us to fix it.  Not that we shouldn't fix it, it sucks, just that I'd expect others to fill the vacuum.

[rattran]

I can only think because it's so bad, everyone expects you to fix it Real Soon™ and doesn't bother making a different one.