DOTA2

[Malakili]

Just can't get over the sluggishness of the controls.  Why did they do it this way?  HoN and LoL are just so much more responsive.

I haven't really gotten this impression, could you explain more specifically what you mean.

[Llyse]

I've never played HoN or LoL, so I don't have anything to compare it too really, but I haven't had any issue with the controls so far.


The goals seems to be to make everything as true to the original as possible, for good or ill.

I actually find Dota2 more responsive than LoL but yeah...

One of my staple heroes which is a bit more aggressive than Treant is Tidehunter. Give him ago if you want a change of pace. Your ulti is the bomb for teamfights and gush's slow and armour reduction is huge.

[Fordel]

Yea, Tide and Treant seem very similar in many ways, with Tide being more offensive/aggressive.


I lean on Treant's invisibility a lot still though, at my skill bracket, the idea of sentry/dust/gems is so very rare, it lets me escape/initiate a lot of things I really shouldn't be able too. I would probably farm better on tide with anchor smash though, I'll have to give it a go.

[Hayduke]

It's hard to explain I suppose.  HoN and LoL just feel much snappier in terms of control.  In DotA2 it feels like I'm fighting the controls, it definitely feels like an RTS game.  Whereas HoN and LoL feel more like an action RPG.

[HaemishM]

It's hard to explain I suppose.  HoN and LoL just feel much snappier in terms of control.  In DotA2 it feels like I'm fighting the controls, it definitely feels like an RTS game.  Whereas HoN and LoL feel more like an action RPG.

^ This. ^

Coming from LOL, DOTA2 just feels really sloggy. Not being able to lock the camera to your champ doesn't help.

[Ice Cream Emperor]

I have played DOTA, then LoL, then DOTA 2 pretty extensively, and I have never noticed an appreciable difference. (Possibly just because when I went 'back to DOTA 2 I just expected it to be like DOTA, and that's one way it happens to be like DOTA?)

I think the overall speed of DOTA is a bit slower (in terms of movement vs. size of the map, not ability use), and more things have actual animations that can be interrupted, but I'm not sure that's really the same thing as responsiveness.

[Thrawn]

I gotta go with Ice Cream Emperor here.  Not to say that people who think it has a different feel are wrong, just that I didn't notice it either.

I had never played DotA, have played over 2,000 games of League and jumped straight into DotA 2 without ever feeling like the controls were sluggish or anything.

[Bungee]

Also, for all the newcomers to DotA:

The black codex.

While written for HoN, it certainly holds true for most every DotA style game out there. Very well written and useful also for more seasoned players imo.

[Fordel]

It's hard to explain I suppose.  HoN and LoL just feel much snappier in terms of control.  In DotA2 it feels like I'm fighting the controls, it definitely feels like an RTS game.  Whereas HoN and LoL feel more like an action RPG.

^ This. ^

Coming from LOL, DOTA2 just feels really sloggy. Not being able to lock the camera to your champ doesn't help.

Double click your char portrait to lock to hero.

[HaemishM]

Where in the fuck is that documented in game that I'm supposed to know that?

Help for noobs, it could use it.

[Fordel]

I'm sure it will have tutorials when it's officially released or whatever.


Wasn't hard to fiddle it out though.

[Ingmar]

I dunno, it took years for them to add that kind of thing to TF2.

[Rasix]

Don't play with your camera locked.  It's something you really should get used to not having on.

Maining Gangplank for months cured me of that bad habit.  Need to know where to shoot at all times.

[Fordel]

I dunno, it took years for them to add that kind of thing to TF2.

They already have hero and item lists on the site and inside the game browser itself. When you get killed, the game tells you which hero did it and what there abilities are too with a little mouse over 'playing card' thing.

I'd have to double check but I want to say the side bar of match making screen already has a 'play tutorial' button greyed out and waiting for it to be done.


I'm willing to bet the tutorials come really soon after the official release, if not before it. It's just such a different beast from what TF2 is, even now with all the variants on weapons and stuff. There's no baseline "use gun on man" that you can lean on with Dota.

[HaemishM]

Don't play with your camera locked.  It's something you really should get used to not having on.

I don't want it locked permanently, I just want a keyboard shortcut that shoots the camera back my way without me having to mouse for it. The double-click portrait thing is so non-intuitive.

[Malakili]

Don't play with your camera locked.  It's something you really should get used to not having on.

I don't want it locked permanently, I just want a keyboard shortcut that shoots the camera back my way without me having to mouse for it. The double-click portrait thing is so non-intuitive.

This is a different thing.  You can hit F1 to select your hero, or double tap F1 to center the camera on your hero.

[HaemishM]

  How the hell did you find that out?

[Malakili]

How the hell did you find that out?

Not sure to be honest.  I think it may have been in a guide I read at reddit.com/r/dota2 when I got into the beta, but I can't recall for sure at this point.

[Ragnoros]

That is the key that was used in WC3 to select/focus your first hero.

[Fordel]

It's also in the key bindings.

You can also put units into control groups, just like WC3/SC2/EveryRTSEver and just double tap the control group button for quick centering.

[eldaec]

I just got an invite to this thing - do I download DOTA2 or DOTA2 Test?

Or does it not matter?

[Fordel]

Plain old Dota 2 should do it.

[HaemishM]

It's also in the key bindings.

I've looked over the key bindings at LEAST 3 times, and never saw anything labeled remotely like what I would expect to see to accomplish the centering on the avatar. The game is just brutally obtuse to people who've never played this flavor of DOTA.

[Malakili]

It's also in the key bindings.

I've looked over the key bindings at LEAST 3 times, and never saw anything labeled remotely like what I would expect to see to accomplish the centering on the avatar. The game is just brutally obtuse to people who've never played this flavor of DOTA.

The game uses RTS logic for controls.  Double tapping a control groups brings the camera to a control group in most RTS games, this is the implied knowledge I believe.    The remnants of Warcraft III are far more visible in DOTA 2 than in the other stand alone MOBA games for obvious reasons.  I find that if you think like you are playing an RTS the whole thing makes a lot more sense t control.   In fact, I noticed that after I started playing SC2 more frequently again I got immediately a lot better at DOTA 2.

[eldaec]

If anyone hasn't got an invite for this yet, but wants one, the secret way in appears to be to buy something on steam.

I applied a while back, but by a remarkable coincidence got invited 30 seconds after buying a thing on steam. On a Sunday. Outside of PST daylight hours.

[Fordel]

It's also in the key bindings.

I've looked over the key bindings at LEAST 3 times, and never saw anything labeled remotely like what I would expect to see to accomplish the centering on the avatar. The game is just brutally obtuse to people who've never played this flavor of DOTA.

I can see how you missed it. 

[HaemishM]

I would never have thought "Select Hero" would be it, mainly because having played LOL, why should I have to "SELECT" my hero? It's not like I can select anyone else's hero, nor can I control a minion (and didn't even think about having to select my courier). I can see now how that sounds like "DUH, YOU FUCKING MONKEY" retardation, but the terminology is completely different. That really is RTS terminology, and LOL is a far piece from traditional RTS.

Now I know though, and knowing is something something.

[Fordel]

You totally can select someone else's hero if they share control (and I think if they drop out after a rage quit too). It's most useful on hero's with summons/pets/charms where the neutrals you can charm all have their own abilities. Put the Centaur on 2, the Wildkin on 3 etc.

There's an item that lets anyone charm a neutral creep too, people use the neutral to stack the ancient camp while they farm a lane or whatever.

[Bungee]

What Fordel said. Any player can make his character controlable to other players and make units controlled by him (pets, summons,...) controllable to other players.
Playing with pets/charmed neutrals/controlled players really makes DotA feel like a micro-heavy RTS . You can assign hotkeys to those 'groups' (actually can really form groups. Like you AND your pet is 1, your char alone is 2 and your pet alone is 3).

[Fordel]

Yea, it's just like every other RTS in existence basically in that regard. There's even a keybind to give universal orders to everything under your control. Useful on someone like Nature's Prophet or Broodmother, where you have a mass of simple units that need nothing more then a A-move most of the time.


Double click a unit to select all of a specific type too.

[Lounge]

I am pretty sure League uses the exact same key shortcut (double tapping f1 that is) otherwise I can confirm I never would have played more than one game of it.

Eurogamer is in the middle of a really great writeup from the new player perspective.  I thought some of you newer players here might enjoy it.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-07-10-the-dota-2-experience-part-one
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-07-17-the-dota-2-experience-part-two

[HaemishM]

I am pretty sure League uses the exact same key shortcut (double tapping f1 that is) otherwise I can confirm I never would have played more than one game of it.

It's spacebar in LoL (or at least that's what I've got it set to). I don't think I've ever used the F keys in LoL, and you certainly can't select any other unit to control.

[Malakili]

I am pretty sure League uses the exact same key shortcut (double tapping f1 that is) otherwise I can confirm I never would have played more than one game of it.

Eurogamer is in the middle of a really great writeup from the new player perspective.  I thought some of you newer players here might enjoy it.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-07-10-the-dota-2-experience-part-one
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-07-17-the-dota-2-experience-part-two

Well, that basically summarizes why I love DOTA 2 as a game.  Perhaps this statement near the end summarizes it best for me though

It wasn't fun.
It was the other thing. The thing that causes people to go and watch football matches in the rain.

There may be a reason I watch more DOTA 2 than play it. 

[Fordel]

I am pretty sure League uses the exact same key shortcut (double tapping f1 that is) otherwise I can confirm I never would have played more than one game of it.

It's spacebar in LoL (or at least that's what I've got it set to). I don't think I've ever used the F keys in LoL, and you certainly can't select any other unit to control.

Spacebar by default brings up the last 'event' in Dota 2, double tapping it should in a round about way bring you back to your Hero too. Almost everyone I've seen rebinds it to an item slot though.



-edit-

The EuroGamer players sound like Albs to me.

[Lounge]

Well, that basically summarizes why I love DOTA 2 as a game.  Perhaps this statement near the end summarizes it best for me though

I have been thinking about this a lot lately.  I can't pin down exactly what I love about this game so much (I've been playing for 7 or 8 years now).  Its constantly infuriating to me but yet I cannot stop playing it.