DOTA2

[Malakili]

WTF is DOTA 2 (beta?)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Q2LKGfhVwg&feature=feedu

Hour long footage and first impressions.

[Lounge]

I'm here to shamelessly beg for one of someone's friend key if any of you lucky bastards managed to get in with the group today.

http://blog.dota2.com/2011/11/your-time-has-come/

[Prospero]

Anyone else in yet? I got an invite last night from a friend.

[Megrim]

Nah, still waiting.

[Ice Cream Emperor]

I'm starting to suspect my computer is now Too Old For Betas. That or my luck is poor.

[jakonovski]

I'm starting to suspect my computer is now Too Old For Betas. That or my luck is poor.

They'll probably want data from old rigs as well, because they'll want to make sure that a range of computers can run it.

[Ice Cream Emperor]

That's what I keep telling myself!

[Prospero]

FWIW, it runs really well on old machines. I think it's running better than LoL on my box which is about 6 years old.

[Megrim]

Sooo... anyone have spare invites yet?

[Bann]

Check you email, I just got an invite. 

[Rasix]

Yep, just got in as well.

[Megrim]

Nope, didn't get one =(

Fudge.

[Ragnoros]

I may have said this already, but you are REALLY not missing anything. My brother got me and himself into beta, we managed one game, and collectively regretted even that. This coming from two fairly avid DotA players (back in the day). Everything is exactly the same, and just a massive step backwards from what Riot has done with the genre. Example: As in WC3, usable items are still bound to the NUMERIC KEYPAD. Yes, the one nowhere near either of your hands or any other useful keys.

[Trippy]

Is there an NDA still in place?

[Ragnoros]

Believe it or not I actually had the exact mental image of you coming here to bitch me out about that. So I Googled it.
Would you like me to Google it for you?  

EDIT: I have no problem with your inquiry and respect f13s NDA policy. I merely find my prediction becoming reality amusing.

[Bann]

I may have said this already, but you are REALLY not missing anything. My brother got me and himself into beta, we managed one game, and collectively regretted even that. This coming from two fairly avid DotA players (back in the day). Everything is exactly the same, and just a massive step backwards from what Riot has done with the genre. Example: As in WC3, usable items are still bound to the NUMERIC KEYPAD. Yes, the one nowhere near either of your hands or any other useful keys.

This was my first take  as well. Played 1 game by myself to get a feel, played 1 match with what seemed like all other recent beta invitees as Ghostrider, closed out fired up LoL. I'll definitely dig deeper in this weekend, but my inital impression was not great. Maybe it was the champs I tried, but I found the pacing to be much slower. Also, I kept expecting towers to act like LoL towers. Still not sure on their agro mechanics, but I was sad that they started flinging at me when I was in the middle of like 4 of my creeps.

[ffc]

I found the pacing to be much slower.

After Dominion in LoL I can't play as originally intended. Much too slow and creep denial slows things down even further

[Lounge]

I may have said this already, but you are REALLY not missing anything. My brother got me and himself into beta, we managed one game, and collectively regretted even that. This coming from two fairly avid DotA players (back in the day). Everything is exactly the same, and just a massive step backwards from what Riot has done with the genre. Example: As in WC3, usable items are still bound to the NUMERIC KEYPAD. Yes, the one nowhere near either of your hands or any other useful keys.

Pretty much everything in the game can be custom keybound to your hearts content.  
Yes... We all know this game is not for League players.  Personally I find League to be incredibly frustrating to play.  To each his own.

Edit: Also the NDA has been lifted on this for quite some time.

[Margalis]

My question is who is this game for?

We already have both DOTA and HON, this is now essentially the third version of the same game. It seems like the target audience is HON players who want a graphics upgrade.

[Lounge]

My question is who is this game for?

We already have both DOTA and HON, this is now essentially the third version of the same game. It seems like the target audience is HON players who want a graphics upgrade.

Hon has taken over quite a unique identity over the last year and is VERY different than dota despite starting out as a 100% clone.  I would say the target audience is the estimated 20 million dota players out there who want a modern client with things like reconnect and matchmaking.  I expect the fact that it bears the Valve brand will attract some new players as well.

[Ingmar]

The inevitable lawsuit:

http://kotaku.com/5883938/blizzard-is-suing-valve

Blizzard's case would appear to be very strong, to me.

[Hayduke]

I'd say it's kind of a stretch to say Blizzard ever promoted DotA.  Even more of a stretch that people would confuse DotA2 with Warcraft III.  Idk maybe there's more to it, but this doesn't seem like a very strong case.

What happened to the Riot objection anyway?  Was that shot down or something?

[Malakili]

Blizzard's case would appear to be very strong, to me.

Was there any ever an EULA of any kind which stated that mods for WCIII were in any way Blizzard property?

In fact, I thought a big reason that SC2 galaxy editor had a bunch of this kind of language was precisely because Blizzard WISHED they had some rights to DOTA when they didn't.

Oh well, we'll see what happens.  In the end, its too late.  Everyone knows the game Valve is make is the heir apparent, and has the original developer.  If they have to change the name, it'll at most create sour grapes among DOTA fans towards Blizzard.

[Ingmar]

http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/game/maps-and-mods/mods/dota <-- announced before DOTA 2 I think?

In any case I believe Blizzard is only trying to stop them from trademarking DOTA, not stop them from using it? I'm not totally clear on all the legalese.

EDIT: And yes, it appears the EULA for the World Editor for War3 would apply here.

[HaemishM]

I don't understand why ANYONE but the original creator is trying to trademark the name DOTA. If we had trademark law that made any goddamn sense, both Valve and Blizzard would have to come to him for permission to use the term. Yes, I know he works for Valve now, but that shouldn't mean they can trademark shit he created without giving him a little taste of the action.

[Mosesandstick]

DOTA was made by Eul, Guinsoo (Riot) then turned it into All-stars, and when he left for LoL Icefrog (Dota 2) took over.

Edit: Google proves I'm an idiot and you're right. Eul does work for Valve.

[Ingmar]

I don't understand why ANYONE but the original creator is trying to trademark the name DOTA. If we had trademark law that made any goddamn sense, both Valve and Blizzard would have to come to him for permission to use the term. Yes, I know he works for Valve now, but that shouldn't mean they can trademark shit he created without giving him a little taste of the action.

Blizzard doesn't appear to be trying to trademark it, just stop Valve from doing so.

[Setanta]

My understanding is that Blizzard doesn't want the DOTA title copyrighted so that it is accessible by all. They aren't fighting to claim it, just to stop Valve from having sole access.

[HaemishM]

Well, if that's the case, I can support that... except with the creator working at Valve, it seems like Valve probably has a viable (if regrettable) claim to copyright.

[Ingmar]

The EULA for the Warcraft 3 editor tool stuff that was used to create it is the obstacle there from what I can tell.

[Thrawn]

Got a beta invite for this last night.   Feels about right.

Only played 3 games vs. bots, but I already feel like my thousand+ games of League were playing a lazy tutorial and now I'm playing the real game on hard mode.  It's the same game, and a completely different game at the same time.  So many common habits from League just get you killed in DotA.  Not decided yet if I'm actually enjoying that or not, but I am much more willing to give it a try than I was before.  (although I still hate the deny mechanic)   But the fact that in beta the DotA 2 interface and matchmaking and such feels way ahead of the 2 year old PvP.net is promising.

Hoax and I both are going to be be playing occasionally if anyone wants to join us, don't know else on F13 is playing.

[MrHat]

Got a beta invite for this last night.   Feels about right.

Only played 3 games vs. bots, but I already feel like my thousand+ games of League were playing a lazy tutorial and now I'm playing the real game on hard mode.  It's the same game, and a completely different game at the same time.  So many common habits from League just get you killed in DotA.  Not decided yet if I'm actually enjoying that or not, but I am much more willing to give it a try than I was before.  (although I still hate the deny mechanic)   But the fact that in beta the DotA 2 interface and matchmaking and such feels way ahead of the 2 year old PvP.net is promising.

Hoax and I both are going to be be playing occasionally if anyone wants to join us, don't know else on F13 is playing.

I actually came to the conclusion that DOTA is no longer for me (after playing for years in the WC version).  LOL turned me into a big casual, and the DOTA2 beta showed me that I actually much prefer the lazy habits picked up by LOL.

Then I went back to LOL and couldn't play that anymore.  So now I just stare at those links in my Steam library.

I will say the interface and lobby system is one of the best I've seen.

[Malakili]

I have beta access but I've played a grand total of one game.  I just don't really have time for another game right now.  I guess I could be coaxed into logging in for a game now and again.

[Fordel]

Can you guys actually elaborate on what the differences actually are? Pretend you are talking to someone whose never played either game and only watched like 3 games total ever.

[Ice Cream Emperor]

(I also got a beta invite, and have been playing with my n00b roomate.)

The ceiling is just way higher, all the way from the small-scale mechanics - timing last hits, managing creep aggro - through the medium scale - laning combinations, managing mana & ability use, resource exploitation, map navigation, item choice - on through to the strategic level.

On top of that it just has a much less streamlined risk/reward setup. Getting killed screws you up considerably more, and the ability to deny creeps means that lane dominance can have an even greater snowballing effect -- so early game ganks are more effective and also much easier to pull off. In theory this should lead to more conservative play but in my experience so far observing games and such -- the whole shape of the game feels much more varied than LoL, and there are far more ganks and skirmishes and kills overall. The mid-game of most of the matches I have watched is about ten times more active than the comparable period in a high-level LoL game, where people almost literally do not leave lane except for dragon fights, and only one champion on each team ganks with any regularity.

LoL just feels like a vastly more standardized, abstracted, top-down-designed version of the same game, which results in a more easily-comprehensible but also shallower strategic (and tactical) game. DOTA is very clearly built from the ground up, complete with all the WC3 engine idiosyncracies that have been incorporated into the gameplay (for better and worse.)

Of course both communities are horrible, horrible, horrible.