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Topic: The robots are coming (Read 216958 times)
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HaemishM
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Posts: 42632
the Confederate flag underneath the stone in my class ring
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That dude with the hockey stick is going to be first against the wall.
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Merusk
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On the flip side, this along with the pending automation-revolution via intelligent algorithms are REALLY going to fuck citizens hard.
Where economic value is no longer generated by human labor, a system based on rewarding people only based on their labor output will have to be replaced. Yes, but that runs up against a few very hard questions that WILL fuck people. 1) Replaced by what. 2) What does this do to old skills. 3) What do we do with people who can't or won't learn the new plugins. 3 is the one that people get fucked with. Cant's are: low-intelligence, low old-skill-cap vs. high current skill cap just via natural abililty. (Not all people can learn to code, not all people can masterfully art.) Wont's are always a problem and my general opinion there is, "fuck those people." Doesn't mean we can just let them starve and die though, right?
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The past cannot be changed. The future is yet within your power.
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Mandella
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Posts: 1236
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That dude with the hockey stick is going to be first against the wall.
And probably pinned there by his stick. And with boxes neatly stacked around him.
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Bungee
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Posts: 897
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Where economic value is no longer generated by human labor, a system based on rewarding people only based on their labor output will have to be replaced.
Yes, but that runs up against a few very hard questions that WILL fuck people. 1) Replaced by what. 2) What does this do to old skills. 3) What do we do with people who can't or won't learn the new plugins. 3 is the one that people get fucked with. Cant's are: low-intelligence, low old-skill-cap vs. high current skill cap just via natural abililty. (Not all people can learn to code, not all people can masterfully art.) Wont's are always a problem and my general opinion there is, "fuck those people." Doesn't mean we can just let them starve and die though, right? Honestly, I don't know what will replace the current systems. What I do wish and hope for though is that it will build the basis for a Star Trek Federation like communism. Basic needs are covered due to fully automatized industries, people don't actually have to work but just whatever they feel like doing. But I guess it won't happen, at least not without some serious shakeups.
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Freedom is the raid target. -tazelbain
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Teleku
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https://i.imgur.com/mcj5kz7.png
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Star Trek communism was built around the idea that we created special matter construction machines that could create almost anything you wanted instantly, so no need for traditional capitalism. It was Battlestar Galactica, on the other hand, that was built around the idea that a civilization became fat and prosperous by automating all the industries with robots. Which sci-fi universe is more likely to come to pass?
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"My great-grandfather did not travel across four thousand miles of the Atlantic Ocean to see this nation overrun by immigrants. He did it because he killed a man back in Ireland. That's the rumor." -Stephen Colbert
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Rendakor
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I'm expecting something like WALL-E.
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"i can't be a star citizen. they won't even give me a star green card"
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Merusk
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Except wall-e was based on consumerism. Who was profiting and how were the masses paying for it? Especially on the ship itself. The "economy" there makes zero sense for a tale about anti-consumerism.
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The past cannot be changed. The future is yet within your power.
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Yegolev
Moderator
Posts: 24440
2/10 WOULD NOT INGEST
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Considering what I know about automating the stationary computers, I'm not terribly worried about an uprising.
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Why am I homeless? Why do all you motherfuckers need homes is the real question. They called it The Prayer, its answer was law Mommy come back 'cause the water's all gone
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Teleku
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Posts: 10510
https://i.imgur.com/mcj5kz7.png
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I see where you're going with that comment, and my initial reaction is to agree (having dealt with that shit myself).
But then think about how well automating that PC went. Now imagine people doing that to a Main Battle Tank.
And I'm right back to where I started.
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"My great-grandfather did not travel across four thousand miles of the Atlantic Ocean to see this nation overrun by immigrants. He did it because he killed a man back in Ireland. That's the rumor." -Stephen Colbert
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Yegolev
Moderator
Posts: 24440
2/10 WOULD NOT INGEST
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Why am I homeless? Why do all you motherfuckers need homes is the real question. They called it The Prayer, its answer was law Mommy come back 'cause the water's all gone
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Quinton
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Posts: 3332
is saving up his raid points for a fancy board title
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Given current battery technology, a humanoid robot uprising is not likely to last more than an hour or else it'll involve robots trailing long extension cords behind or something...
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Trippy
Administrator
Posts: 23626
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Boston Dynamics built some gas powered versions of their 4 legged models as prototypes for the US military to test as cargo carriers but they were too noisy. Noise isn't as much of an issue though if you are aiming for world domination through overwhelming force. Edit: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=arIJm2lAfR8
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« Last Edit: February 25, 2016, 10:35:19 PM by Trippy »
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calapine
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Solely responsible for the thread on "The Condom Wall."
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Boston Dynamics built some gas powered versions of their 4 legged models as prototypes for the US military to test as cargo carriers but they were too noisy. Noise isn't as much of an issue though if you are aiming for world domination through overwhelming force. Edit: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=arIJm2lAfR8Ah bah, the original is cuter!
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« Last Edit: February 26, 2016, 08:57:44 AM by calapine »
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Restoration is a perfectly valid school of magic!
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Yegolev
Moderator
Posts: 24440
2/10 WOULD NOT INGEST
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I'll start getting worried when computers and robots can repair themselves. Until then we can just wait it out if there is some sort of attempt.
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Why am I homeless? Why do all you motherfuckers need homes is the real question. They called it The Prayer, its answer was law Mommy come back 'cause the water's all gone
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Yegolev
Moderator
Posts: 24440
2/10 WOULD NOT INGEST
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Why am I homeless? Why do all you motherfuckers need homes is the real question. They called it The Prayer, its answer was law Mommy come back 'cause the water's all gone
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satael
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MahrinSkel
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When she crossed over, she was just a ship. But when she came back... she was bullshit!
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The very first real program I ever wrote (from scratch, rather than typing in source code and then trying to figure out why it didn't work) was Go on the Apple II. It was a good thing nobody told me how hard it was to make a computer play, or I wouldn't have tried. It wasn't very good (it basically just tried to capture as much as possible for that turn), but it worked. Once you have a learning AI that 'sort of' gets how to play a game, it's a matter of raw horsepower and training for it to get better. Blondie24 was comparatively primitive, only got a comparatively small amount of training (165 games against humans, because the AI couldn't interface directly with the game the developer had to translate everything from one system to the other by manual entry) and still managed a top 1% rating at Checkers (also a simpler game, but still one that, like Go, is deceptively hard to make a computer do well with). EDIT: The point I failed to quite get to there is that there is a fundamental difference between this and Deep Blue type AI. When opponents of Deep Blue found weaknesses, Deep Blue would still keep making the same mistakes. Only when the programmers figured out what the mistakes were and why they were occurring would Deep Blue 'learn'. The system that was Deep Blue included the programmers as the 'learning' portion of the artificial intelligence. AlphaGo doesn't need any outside support except electricity, it's a complete system for making a better Go player. --Dave
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« Last Edit: March 09, 2016, 08:45:14 PM by MahrinSkel »
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--Signature Unclear
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Tale
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sıɥʇ ǝʞıן sʞןɐʇ
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Merusk
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That's rather underselling the story details. The executives of BD appeared reluctant to the very idea of making a robot for profit and stonewalled collaborating with the other robotics companies Alphabet acquired. Combined with the bad press that the idea of human-replacement bots was generating after the last video it almost seems inevitable that they'd dump the company.
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The past cannot be changed. The future is yet within your power.
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angry.bob
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We're no strangers to love. You know the rules and so do I.
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Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muß man schweigen.
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Morat20
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Typical behavior from a machine learner. What I can't believe is the utter failure to test that privately -- or filter their inputs.
The only thing I can imagine that would be worse to train a learner on would be Xbox Live chat for a FPS, in terms of PR from the output.
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MahrinSkel
Terracotta Army
Posts: 10858
When she crossed over, she was just a ship. But when she came back... she was bullshit!
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If we keep letting our AI systems be tortured trained by trolls, we're going to deserve the Robot Uprising.
--Dave
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--Signature Unclear
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HaemishM
Staff Emeritus
Posts: 42632
the Confederate flag underneath the stone in my class ring
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No one puts that much effort into a realistic looking woman that can be made to perform actions on command without the intention of fucking it.
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Trippy
Administrator
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Merusk
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A Doctoral candidate from my Alma Mater, UC, (no, Cincinnati) has pushed us another step closer to the robot takeover. This time, an A.I. has beaten an Air Force Colonel with decades of fighter experience. http://www.popsci.com/ai-pilot-beats-air-combat-expert-in-dogfight?src=SOC&dom=twSo, yeah, Drone, unmanned fighters coming in the next 20 years. After the old men our age who'll keep it from happening retire.
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The past cannot be changed. The future is yet within your power.
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ajax34i
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Posts: 2527
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Ethics and morals have to be programmed in, or learned (in the case of neural networks) just like all the other functions that they're making progress with, but nobody's doing research for that.
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Viin
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Morality is just a roadblock to greatness.
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- Viin
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Trippy
Administrator
Posts: 23626
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Ethics and morals have to be programmed in, or learned (in the case of neural networks) just like all the other functions that they're making progress with, but nobody's doing research for that.
People are doing research. With combat aircraft the problem can be greatly simplified cause a human can manually engage "attack" mode on a target remotely. With self-driving cars, however, what to do when a variant of the Trolley Problem comes up is a huge issue with no easy answers.
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Merusk
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I'm of the inaction is immoral stance, because being present means you're involved anyway. In which case Utilitarian morals kick-in. One life for five.
I've never seen the actual trolley problem before, though. It's always been posed as, the self-driving car must crash intentionally, destroying property, or hit a pedestrian, causing grievous injury. Which is the correct choice? Who is at fault?
Humanity sucks at foresight, though, so it's another problem that won't get "resolved" legally until it happens. I wonder what the programmers are deciding.
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The past cannot be changed. The future is yet within your power.
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Trippy
Administrator
Posts: 23626
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The situation I worry more about is the car can decide the kill the sole occupant or 5 bystanders. Which does it choose?
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01101010
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You call it an accident. I call it justice.
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Does any one know where the love of God goes...When the waves turn the minutes to hours? -G. Lightfoot
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Koyasha
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Posts: 1363
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The situation seems to be so unlikely as to be something that only comes up theoretically. The sequence of events required is so vanishingly unlikely that this is probably never going to happen:
First, a situation where a crash is inevitable has to occur - this is increasingly unlikely with self-driving cars, since they will be safer and less prone to error than humans, and will continue to become even more so as time goes on. Then, the situation has to provide only two possible options for responses; real situations tend to have a variety of options - binary situations of the type ethics problems like to bring up are vanishingly rare in the real world. Then, the results of both possible options must be calculable to a significant degree of certainty, so that you know you'll kill people either way. Finally, the two options have to be equal in certainty, so you are equally sure that people will die in either situation.
Most likely, the second condition will never be met, even with millions of self-driving cars. The third condition is even less likely, since a self-driving car is unlikely to be able to analyze whether people will survive or not, especially given that humans are unpredictable and may do things that increase their chances of injury, or do things that get them out of the way even when the car 'thinks' it is certain to kill them. Finally the fourth condition is so unlikely as to probably be able to go through millions of incidents that meet all three of the previous conditions without ever being met.
So the simple answer is: the cars should probably be programmed to do what they can to avoid everyone, and prioritize the safety of their occupants because those are the most predictable humans in the equasion. Anyone who isn't their occupant is too unpredictable to successfully calculate with any certainty what will happen to them, and therefore any assumption of that is bad data.
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-Do you honestly think that we believe ourselves evil? My friend, we seek only good. It's just that our definitions don't quite match.- Ailanreanter, Arcanaloth
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Yegolev
Moderator
Posts: 24440
2/10 WOULD NOT INGEST
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The situation I worry more about is the car can decide the kill the sole occupant or 5 bystanders. Which does it choose?
Asimov covered this one already.
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Why am I homeless? Why do all you motherfuckers need homes is the real question. They called it The Prayer, its answer was law Mommy come back 'cause the water's all gone
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Samwise
Moderator
Posts: 19228
sentient yeast infection
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I think of automated cars being more like trains. Their job is to stay on the track and obey the signals. If someone jumps onto the tracks, that's their fault first and foremost. If the car can stop to avoid hitting them, super. If not, it's not the car's job to swerve out of the road and endanger people who weren't stupid enough to wander into the street.
As others have said, with its faster reaction times I imagine an automated car is going to do a far better job of avoiding situations like that entirely than a human driver would. Hand-wringing about what they'll do in the event of an accident is missing the very strong chance that once these things become commonplace, auto accidents are going to be about as common as lightning strikes.
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« Last Edit: June 28, 2016, 12:44:09 PM by Samwise »
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"I have not actually recommended many games, and I'll go on the record here saying my track record is probably best in the industry." - schild
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