Resubbed - damn it's well done

[Thrawn]

Quit playing much EvE and been playing more WoW...realized I'm just playing WoW the same way I played EvE anyways, as a market player.    Currently have over 800 auctions up on my bank alt. 

[Megrim]

It really does get into your blood.

[OcellotJenkins]

Quit playing much EvE and been playing more WoW...realized I'm just playing WoW the same way I played EvE anyways, as a market player.    Currently have over 800 auctions up on my bank alt. 

Yep, I can't stop playing the market either.  It's just hard to turn down the 300g-1500g per day profit on glyphs.  I keep thinking the market will drop off but nope, people keep buying the same old stuff.

[Thrawn]

Yep, I can't stop playing the market either.  It's just hard to turn down the 300g-1500g per day profit on glyphs.  I keep thinking the market will drop off but nope, people keep buying the same old stuff.

I was a bit shocked myself how well glyphs sell, I assumed they wouldn't be huge items as I assumed most people buy them once, and thats its.  Don't ever have to replace them as gear gets upgraded like gems and enchants do.

[Rasix]

Quit playing much EvE and been playing more WoW...realized I'm just playing WoW the same way I played EvE anyways, as a market player.    Currently have over 800 auctions up on my bank alt. 

Yep, I can't stop playing the market either.  It's just hard to turn down the 300g-1500g per day profit on glyphs.  I keep thinking the market will drop off but nope, people keep buying the same old stuff.

The one time I tried selling glyphs I put up a bunch of that were part of typical endgame and leveling builds.  I under priced everyone by a lot.  I ended up with almost all of my auctions coming back unsold. 

I've stopped playing the market since initially making a lot of cash on epic gems. I can't seem to get into it the way I was able to play the market in EQ. 

[Xanthippe]

I was a bit shocked myself how well glyphs sell, I assumed they wouldn't be huge items as I assumed most people buy them once, and thats its.  Don't ever have to replace them as gear gets upgraded like gems and enchants do.

People respec a lot, even with dual specs.

[dd0029]

I really enjoyed my first time through Northrend.  The second time through, I started to notice some flow issues.  And subsequent efforts have exacerbated issues.  I find I don't enjoy the 70-80 trip anywhere near as much as I liked and still like 60-70.  70-80 has turned into get Northrend greens, then BG my way to 80 with occasional stops to work on weapon skills.

I never have found the bread crumb quests out of Borean Tundra.  And the Howling Fjord bread crumb to Dragonblight almost immediately directs you to Grizzly Hills.  Instead of moving you out into Dragonblight.  Also, there is a whole bunch of back and forth to completely exhaust quest hubs.  I find I kind of enjoyed the planning that you had to do with BC quests.  You would get a whole bunch and then have to think about the most efficient means of getting them done.  Northrend is completely on rails for the most part.  There are not all that many choices.  You get a couple of quests in the same spot, do them, come back, get a couple more for the same spot, come back and then go somewhere else.  Nothing to do with thinking.

Additionally, the initial inaccesibility of Dalaran is a real problem.  I find I keep my hearth in Shat for the first couple of levels, but then I need to take the interminable boats each level.  In Outland, its fairly trivial to head right to Shattrath and get all of the intervening FPs to ease travel.  Getting a Dalaran chain is comparatively impossible prior to the quest.  I always forget about that little port building that you see once and then never visit again.  What is the point behind that obscure floating purple triangle?  Is there a reason it could not be in a more accessible place?  Or at least have its own FP?  

I believe some of my problems stem from the fact that I really don't like the idea that they take away your flying mount for 7 levels just to give it back after an arbitrary money sink.  Its part of the reason I always disliked the original flying mount.  It was a step backwards from an epic ride for no apparent reason.  The new upgraded speed is very nice though.  I will still probably farm for cash on later alts, but it won't be the compulsion it was.  

[Nebu]

I agree with much of what you have stated.

I would think that Blizzard would have also learned from the lessons of the past.  I'm getting too many quests that are "go to point X and return to me" followed by "go back to point x and kill y mobs" only to be completed by "go back to point x and kill boss z".  Can't they just give me one quest to do all three things and be done with it?  I don't mind doing the trivial tasks, but get pissed when I have to travel back and forth as a tiem sink when it's pointless to do so.  This is the primary reason that I quit LotRO.  Too much FedEx.

I'm leveling an alt right now and find that I'm dreading the 60-80 game.  I did 60-70 on 4 toons and the thought of doing zangarmarsh and Netherstorm again makes me weep. 

[Rasix]

I never have found the bread crumb quests out of Borean Tundra.  

The end of the Taunka quests has you moving into Dragonblight, which after a couple quests at a refugee camp puts you at Agmar's hammer.  The Walrus dude quest lines end with you going to their port in Dragonblight.  Of course, you might be Aliance which throws my help out the window :

The day they put the flying changes in, I just flew to Dalaran.  Stop by that Vanguard place before the Wrathgate and you're good for a direct line to your questing.  For Howling Fjord, I just logged on another character, wrote down the flight path,  and stopped by each spot.  Went rather fast with epic flying.

On my third time through Northrend, I've just hit level 78. I still have about 80% of Icecrown/Zul'Drak (just getting Ebon Blade faction), 50% of Dragonblight, all of Grizzly Hills/Storm Peaks, and about 20% of Sholozar/Fjord left to do.  Most stuff I've skipped is because I know it's annoying or it has no applicable faction.  I love Storm Peaks, but I'm a scribe so there's no rush.   Working on 100% rested EXP with the heirloom shoulders has helped me be picky about what I do.

One thing I have noticed is the small pathing/geometry bugs that pop up over time with leveling content and are never fixed.  Never encountered these in the past, but my last time leveling up there were just a number of spots where mobs would evade, reset, or just get stuck under the world.  Somewhat annoying.

[OcellotJenkins]

Quit playing much EvE and been playing more WoW...realized I'm just playing WoW the same way I played EvE anyways, as a market player.    Currently have over 800 auctions up on my bank alt.  

Yep, I can't stop playing the market either.  It's just hard to turn down the 300g-1500g per day profit on glyphs.  I keep thinking the market will drop off but nope, people keep buying the same old stuff.

The one time I tried selling glyphs I put up a bunch of that were part of typical endgame and leveling builds.  I under priced everyone by a lot.  I ended up with almost all of my auctions coming back unsold.  

I've stopped playing the market since initially making a lot of cash on epic gems. I can't seem to get into it the way I was able to play the market in EQ.  

First of all, I don't understand the logic of undercutting everyone by a lot.  That's just shooting yourself in the foot along with the other sellers.  People will by the cheapest one regardless, even if it's just undercut by one copper.  Secondly, Auctioneer Advanced is absolutely essential if you want to seriously play the market.  Otherwise the micro-management and clicking will drive you nuts.

There are certainly days when sales are a bit down, but you can always bet on business being ludicrous other times to make up for it.  With glyphs for example, after patch days are crazy as are most weekends to a lesser degree.  The absolute best time to make money though is right after an expansion.  When everyone else is busy leveling, the ones that hang back on the AH can make absolutely ridiculous amounts of money.

[Rasix]

First of all, I don't understand the logic of undercutting everyone by a lot.  That's just shooting yourself in the foot along with the other sellers.  People will by the cheapest one regardless, even if it's just undercut by one copper.  Secondly, Auctioneer Advanced is absolutely essential if you want to seriously play the market.  Otherwise the micro-management and clicking will drive you nuts.

I'm impatient, there's your logic  I'm on a lower pop, underachieving server, so the market is pretty terrible.  The prices on everything seem to start very high and in a few days they're way down as everyone is busy frantically undercutting everyone else.  A gem that starts the week at 80-100g is ending the week at 30. 

Also, the professional farmers have an absolutely huge impact on our server.  That's not a huge factor for me, since I don't sell ore/herbs.

I still have done moderately well by my own standards.  4 characters have epic flying and I've got a 10k cushion.  I just know I can do a lot better if I try.  Is Auctineer a bit less bloated and buggy now?  It always seemed like overkill and the second I installed it, the amount of UI errors would start to pile on.

[dd0029]

I do not understand the AH anymore.  I don't buy mats.  I just buy green gear to supplement holes.  Anything with a vaguely appropriate suffix is over 100g.  Always.  From lvl 5 gear to level 70.  All over 100.  I can kind of understand the targeted twink gear at 19.  Somewhat less understandable is the 29 stuff.  But 150 gold for an "of the Champion" lvl 63 green?  Its not for enchanting mats.  There are tons of "of the boar" and similiar useless suffixes up for 2-10g per piece.  And do not get me started on the crafted plate gear.  I have been staring at 6 full sets of adamantite plate on the AH for two weeks now with a buyout over 100g per piece.  Maybe the guy is selling it and just makes sure to always have six sets up, but really who is going to pay that for stuff that gets leveled out of in days for the most part?

[AutomaticZen]

I do not understand the AH anymore.  I don't buy mats.  I just buy green gear to supplement holes.  Anything with a vaguely appropriate suffix is over 100g.  Always.  From lvl 5 gear to level 70.  All over 100.  I can kind of understand the targeted twink gear at 19.  Somewhat less understandable is the 29 stuff.  But 150 gold for an "of the Champion" lvl 63 green?  Its not for enchanting mats.  There are tons of "of the boar" and similiar useless suffixes up for 2-10g per piece.  And do not get me started on the crafted plate gear.  I have been staring at 6 full sets of adamantite plate on the AH for two weeks now with a buyout over 100g per piece.  Maybe the guy is selling it and just makes sure to always have six sets up, but really who is going to pay that for stuff that gets leveled out of in days for the most part?

People leveling alts.

[OcellotJenkins]

I'm on a lower pop, underachieving server, so the market is pretty terrible. 

....

Is Auctineer a bit less bloated and buggy now?  It always seemed like overkill and the second I installed it, the amount of UI errors would start to pile on.

I'm sure the situation varies greatly between servers and since mine has a rather high pop I wouldn't know the strategy on yours.

Auctioneer (Advanced) still has a few bugs but overall it's a very tight add-on.  It took me a bit of fiddling to get it setup at first but now it automates the whole process of putting all of the glyphs in my bags on the AH with an undercut of a few copper.  

The trick is deciding which glyphs are yielding the most at any given time and taking notes.  I started off going by the suggested glyph lists for different talent builds on wowwiki but that doesn't necessarily give a good indicator of what will sell the best and for the most at any given time.  It's weird what people buy sometimes.  And yes, even on my server undercutting can drive some glyphs into the ground but usually they'll reset to a higher price in a few days.

[proudft]

First of all, I don't understand the logic of undercutting everyone by a lot.

There is one (1) reason to do so -- baiting one of the other sellers into buying it to remove it from the listings.  

Say you have some crappily-itemized purple BoE from Naxx that some yahoos always list at 3000g, but no one ever buys because, frankly, it sucks in comparison to some regular ToC drop.   You go and list that sucker for a LOT less and if you're lucky, one of the aforementioned yahoos will panic and buy it, thinking they can resell it later after their precious jewel sells for 3000g.  Ka-ching!

But yeah, people who undercut by whole golds or more on high-volume stuff are just weird.

[Lightstalker]

I just sold my Scout's Shirt (free with any new Dranaei character) for 10g.

The auction house is not for understanding, only exploiting.

[Thrawn]

Say you have some crappily-itemized purple BoE from Naxx that some yahoos always list at 3000g, but no one ever buys because, frankly, it sucks in comparison to some regular ToC drop.   You go and list that sucker for a LOT less and if you're lucky, one of the aforementioned yahoos will panic and buy it, thinking they can resell it later after their precious jewel sells for 3000g.  Ka-ching!

Playing the auction house is just as much about trying to play the other people that are playing the auction house. 

[OcellotJenkins]

Playing the auction house is just as much about trying to play the other people that are playing the auction house. 

Totally.  Around January or February of this year there was a major glyph war on my server.  I think we all had each other on friends list to see when a competitor logged on to re-undercut their glyphs (I know I did).  These days I just operate in bulk and put a handful of every friggin glyph that even remotely sells up.  In 12 to 24 hours that will net an acceptable amount of gold without worrying about the competition.

[Sheepherder]

Trade wars between retards causing major undercuts is a good way to stock up on items with a deflated price.  Which can then be exploited when the market regains equilibrium.

[Nebu]

First of all, I don't understand the logic of undercutting everyone by a lot.  That's just shooting yourself in the foot along with the other sellers.  

I do this all the time. 

1) Money in MMO's is meaningless.  I can always get more.  Making a lot of money by playing economics on the AH means nothing to me for this reason. 

2) I want my money now.  If I can make 20g now vs 25g later, I'll take the 20g.  If that means someone else makes a profit buying and selling my sales, well... more power to them.  I don't care. 

[AutomaticZen]

First of all, I don't understand the logic of undercutting everyone by a lot.  That's just shooting yourself in the foot along with the other sellers.

Two reasons:

1) If you know you're fighting someone who'll undercut you immediately, you can drop the price low, have them undercut, remove your items, and buy theirs out to relist at a higher price.  The drawback is once you've done this, they may have more of the item to list up, so do this at your own peril.  For instance, I make Eternal Belt Buckles at a cost of 22g or thereabouts.  I notice I have a chronic undercutter (I friend the person to ensure they're still online).  I list one or two of the item at 23g.  If they sell, no loss.  If they don't the undercutter lists, I remove my items, buy his, and relist one or two at my normal price. (to see if he has more)  If nothing happens, I list around 6-7, as anymore is a flood and generally will be undercut before it gets sold.

2) Makes your price look better.  Same item as before.  Normal market price is 50g, with one guy listing at that.  If I want to unload quick, I'd drop down to around 42g.  Generally I'll getting single buyer buying multiples as they feel I'm giving a deal because they see the higher price.  My items tend to go quicker, and I'm still making 20g profit.   20g profit x 5 items over 30 minutes is better than 28g profit x 5 items over 2 hours.  It's a hedge really.

And I've found people dislike the 1c undercut.  Some really feel it's a dick move and will buy the high item just to spite you.  They don't seem to have the same rage at a flat percent undercut of the lowest price.

[OcellotJenkins]

And I've found people dislike the 1c undercut.  Some really feel it's a dick move and will buy the high item just to spite you.  They don't seem to have the same rage at a flat percent undercut of the lowest price.

I'd wager that 49 out of 50 people sort by price and pick the cheapest item without ever thinking twice about a 1c undercut.

[AutomaticZen]

And I've found people dislike the 1c undercut.  Some really feel it's a dick move and will buy the high item just to spite you.  They don't seem to have the same rage at a flat percent undercut of the lowest price.

I'd wager that 49 out of 50 people sort by price and pick the cheapest item without ever thinking twice about a 1c undercut.

I'd peg it around 8 out of 10, and I want the money of those extra 2 as well.

[Tarami]

And I've found people dislike the 1c undercut.  Some really feel it's a dick move and will buy the high item just to spite you.  They don't seem to have the same rage at a flat percent undercut of the lowest price.

I'm guilty of this.

[bhodi]

All that market psycology works. I'm mystified but shit priced at 9.99 sells better than 10g.

I'm also on the "don't care about massing huge amounts of gold" bandwagon. I sell shit though since I'm the guild banker. I don't have any personal use for gold.

[Nebu]

I don't have any personal use for gold.

I guess that's it for me.  It takes about 1-2 months of play (including the 1-80 trip) to have everything in game that you need.  Money becomes meaningless afterwards unless you are an alt-a-holic. 

[Ingmar]

You need quite a lot of money if you're raiding or pvping enough to get a constant flow of gear upgrades, mostly for gems and enchants. A single runed cardinal ruby usually runs at 250g+ on Doomhammer, with that and enchants a progressing character can easily spend several hundred gold a week between upgrades and repairs.

[Rasix]

Cash at this point for me is only good for two things: riding for alts and power leveling tradeskills.  I've pretty much got that covered for my future goblin hunter. 

[OcellotJenkins]

A lot of it really depends on the type of item you are selling.  Again using glyphs as an example, the herbs needed to make them are dirt cheap and so the profit margin is extremely high per glyph.  I stock up on Northrend herbs usually once a week when I find them for around 4 gold a stack.  Since the resulting inks can be traded for any other kind of ink, input costs always remain rock bottom.  Yeah I may miss a sale or two every now and then due to someone thinking I'm a dick for the 1c undercut, but volume sales win big time.

Given the option, I'd rather be sitting on a nice pile of money in case I want to buy some dual specs, epic flyers, or grind some tradeskills up on alts.  I'm far too lazy to actually gather resources myself.  

[AutomaticZen]

A lot of it really depends on the type of item you are selling.  Again using glyphs as an example, the herbs needed to make them are dirt cheap and so the profit margin is extremely high per glyph.  I stock up on Northrend herbs usually once a week when I find them for around 4 gold a stack.  Since the resulting inks can be traded for any other kind of ink, input costs always remain rock bottom.  Yeah I may miss a sale or two every now and then due to someone thinking I'm a dick for the 1c undercut, but volume sales win big time.

Given the option, I'd rather be sitting on a nice pile of money in case I want to buy some dual specs, epic flyers, or grind some tradeskills up on alts.  I'm far too lazy to actually gather resources myself.  

You're getting ahead in the Glyph market on volume sales.  I'm a Jewelcrafter/Blacksmith. (Dragon's Eye + Sockets! = WIN)  My input costs are significantly higher.

But I'm at around 35K, with numerous epic flyers bought for my alts and my girlfriend, so I'm not doing too bad.

[Lantyssa]

I guess that's it for me.  It takes about 1-2 months of play (including the 1-80 trip) to have everything in game that you need.  Money becomes meaningless afterwards unless you are an alt-a-holic. 

Even with my plethora of alts, I'm usually not wanting for anything.  I needed help with level 60 riding before the changes, but would have stuck with my 60% mount had Mattemo not given me enough to cover most of it.  I'll easily have the 1k for cold-weather flying when I hit that in six levels.

I rarely buy anything off the AH.  I sell a little if I think it's something that would be a waste.  Otherwise I vendor everything.

[AutomaticZen]

I rarely buy anything off the AH.  I sell a little if I think it's something that would be a waste. Otherwise I vendor everything.

[Lantyssa]

Quest greens are useless and the numbers of BoE greens I get are fairly minimal.  Since I return to a place with an auction house maybe once a level, it's just not worth the hassle.

[Nebu]

I'm with Lantyssa.  I vendor almost everything.  Money is stupid easy to get when I want it.  I prefer to spend 99% of my online time killing mobs or other players.  The only things I do to waste time is fish or cook along with the occasional trade skill.  All for selfish reasons.   

[Nevermore]

Quest greens are useless and the numbers of BoE greens I get are fairly minimal.  Since I return to a place with an auction house maybe once a level, it's just not worth the hassle.

You could always mail it to an alt you have at a city with an AH.  Or mail them to someone who can DE them.