Shadowrun MMO?

[DarkSign]

http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=16535

so it looks like there is possibility of seeing a shadowrun MMO in the future...





EDIT: Just for the record, Cyberpunk 2020 is better than Shadowrun.

[geldonyetich2]

I'd feel better about this if I had any evidence that Smith & Tinker had something resembling game development talent employed.

[Furiously]

After what Microsoft did to shadowrun can anyone really do worse?

[WayAbvPar]

Shadowrun, more than almost any other PnP system, really leaned on a good GM and character interaction. Going through the motions of quest x for y xp just won't work. The combat system is also not suited for real time play. It needs turns, much like D&D.

If they find a way to surprise me and make this even remotely playable, I will be overjoyed. I just won't be holding my breath until then.

[SnakeCharmer]

Everytime a new studio pops up with a connection even remotely tied to Shadowrun, someone brings up "Shadowrun MMO?"...

Then the 'if done right, it would so pwn' comments come...

[Cadaverine]

Hell, if they just bootstrapped multiplayer onto the old Genesis Shadowrun game, it's be better than that shitastic FPS game they released.

[Ghambit]

I'd be happy if they simply Ported DnD 4.0's online system over to Shadowrun.  People over at Fantasy Grounds were working on conversions, but it's just not the same.  FG unfortunately is near owned by D20.

Shadowrun IMO is one of the greatest all-around games ever designed.  People just usually cant get passed the orcs and dragons aspect.  For pure cyberpunk goodness though, it's hard to beat.

I think a turn-based (or slow timered)  MMO would work well for it.    There's just too much crunch there to do it any other way.

[WindupAtheist]

The notion of a Shadowrun MMO induces in me a level of fanboy drooling rivaled only by the idea of a KOTOR MMO.

[Ghambit]

The notion of a Shadowrun MMO induces in me a level of fanboy drooling rivaled only by the idea of a KOTOR MMO.

So how would you design it?  (maybe for the game design forum)

btw: is Shadowrun FPS moddable?

[geldonyetich2]

Start the thread and I'd take a run at that.  (I'd do it, but I used up my starting threads in the game design forum quota and want somebody else to get the first shot at it.)

[WindupAtheist]

So how would you design it?  (maybe for the game design forum)

RPG depth with FPS combat.  I want the setting and atmosphere of Shadowrun, but the tabletop gaming rules can go get fucked.  They won't make for a fun MMO, and the fanboys who care about them aren't a market worth catering to on matters of basic design.

[Ghambit]

So how would you design it?  (maybe for the game design forum)

RPG depth with FPS combat.  I want the setting and atmosphere of Shadowrun, but the tabletop gaming rules can go get fucked.  They won't make for a fun MMO, and the fanboys who care about them aren't a market worth catering to on matters of basic design.

so I say again... is Shadowrun PC (FPS) moddable?   

[stray]

Doesn't seem to be any mods available for download. Besides, it's an Xbox Live game, I believe (On PC too)... So that should explain it.

[tmp]

RPG depth with FPS combat.  I want the setting and atmosphere of Shadowrun, but the tabletop gaming rules can go get fucked.  They won't make for a fun MMO, and the fanboys who care about them aren't a market worth catering to on matters of basic design.

KotOR was RPG with tabletop gaming rules, wasn't it? Not to say if it was fun or not but it did sell shitload of copies. On the other hand FPS-oriented Shadowrun conversion did pretty bad. It's obviously in part due to IP and whatnot, but wouldn't be so fast with claims FPS approach is the shit and tabletop approach is just shit as far as the playerbase is concerned.

[Signe]

As far as MMOs go... the better I like the idea, the more disappointing it all ends up.  MMOs just fuck with my head, I think.  At least the last couple of years. 

[Velorath]

RPG depth with FPS combat.  I want the setting and atmosphere of Shadowrun, but the tabletop gaming rules can go get fucked.  They won't make for a fun MMO, and the fanboys who care about them aren't a market worth catering to on matters of basic design.

KotOR was RPG with tabletop gaming rules, wasn't it? Not to say if it was fun or not but it did sell shitload of copies. On the other hand FPS-oriented Shadowrun conversion did pretty bad. It's obviously in part due to IP and whatnot, but wouldn't be so fast with claims FPS approach is the shit and tabletop approach is just shit as far as the playerbase is concerned.

He didn't seem to be making a blanket statement that tabletop rules are shit in video games.  Seemed more like he was referring to Shadowrun's P&P mechanics in particular, which I agree, aren't particularly great and aren't needed to make a good Shadowrun game.  It's a P&P game people played more for the setting rather than because they thought the mechanics were good.

[Ghambit]

Shadowrun 4th Edition is considered a VERY good game mechanically within the industry, not great but far from bad.  Some of the older versions sucked ass, so make sure you actually cite which version you talk about before one also makes blanket statements saying the game mechanics suck.

It's like saying DnD rules suck; absurd considering how many rulesets there are. 
Not to mention, the onus is still placed on the GM how he implements the rules and which variants he/she uses.

[geldonyetich2]

Personally, I'm thinking Hellgate: London (but finished) with Shadowrun backdrop and the congregation areas are used to gather other players to perform runs with.  The Street Samurai and Mage/Shaman is already there, just add full Decker and Greaser support.

[Evildrider]

I'd prefer a Cyberpunk MMO over Shadowrun.  I seriously just want a good sci-fi'ish game.  And all the elves and magic and crap in Shadowrun would just be meh for me.

[WindupAtheist]

I'm kind of a loony radical in that my ideal RPG is just a shooter with an inventory screen, branching dialogue, and an open world.  I mean I loved KOTOR, but combat was the weakest part of the game.  Give me all that depth and story, but attach it to a combat engine that's actually fun in its own right.

Because if you released KOTOR combat as a standalone game, nobody would fucking touch it.  They'd go "Okay, so you push the Force Storm button until you win.  Where's the god damned gameplay?"

[Megrim]

I'd prefer a Cyberpunk MMO over Shadowrun.  I seriously just want a good sci-fi'ish game.  And all the elves and magic and crap in Shadowrun would just be meh for me.

I'm fair certain that we have had this brought up before, but a huge problem with a Cyberpunk MMO (as much as some of us would love to see one) is the combat. The speed and lethality makes it decidedly unfun for the average MMO player.

[Tebonas]

I'm kind of a loony radical in that my ideal RPG is just a shooter with an inventory screen, branching dialogue, and an open world. 

Sounds a bit like Mass Effect to me.

[WindupAtheist]

Well I'm a "loony radical" when it comes to RPG combat, but I don't think I will be for much longer.  It seems to be the way the wind is blowing these days.  Between being able to circle-strafe stuff to death in Elder Scrolls and GTA adding character stats to go with its world-ness, there's been sort of a convergence going on for a while now.

[tmp]

I'm kind of a loony radical in that my ideal RPG is just a shooter with an inventory screen, branching dialogue, and an open world.  I mean I loved KOTOR, but combat was the weakest part of the game.  Give me all that depth and story, but attach it to a combat engine that's actually fun in its own right.

Because if you released KOTOR combat as a standalone game, nobody would fucking touch it.  They'd go "Okay, so you push the Force Storm button until you win.  Where's the god damned gameplay?"

Not sure though if that's fault of combat mechanics on the whole, or simply result of bits being unbalanced/overpowered to the silly level. I mean if it was FPS instead where you push right mouse button to unleash the same BFFS attack  that lets you kill everything easily and without need to aim etc, would it make things more appealing? Suspect it'd be the same snoozefest. But it's not fault of FPS conventions/mechanics in such case, but rather over-the-top weapon that removes the need to actually utilize most of available mechanics at all.

[stray]

Jedi Outcast/Academy pulled off Jedi powers in an FPS (and 3rd person) fashion well. That, coupled with the good stuff in KotoR would have been pretty nifty.

[Hoax]

Fuck a Shadowrun MMO.

Fuck it.  Fuck a Battletech "mmo" while we're at it also.

They need to start giving people who have the creativity and the balls to make their own world, own lore & their own fucking game not just WoW but with lazers!  I'm so sick of established IP mmo's...

Take some Shadowrun, some Sprawl, some Snow Crash, some SL player's better ideas, some Cowboy Bebop while your at it and some zany ideas of your own.  Make a game that works well, where the world is cool, gritty, dark and layered and viola.  I'll give you money.

[WindupAtheist]

Turn-based strategy can basically eat my ass, except when the conflict in question is on a scale too large for real-time to be feasible.  A strategic-level simulation of WW2 in the Pacific?  Make that turn-based.  Three Star Wars heroes fighting a dark Jedi and a squad of Stormtroopers?  Give me my fucking real-time pew pew.

[tmp]

Turn-based strategy can basically eat my ass, except when the conflict in question is on a scale too large for real-time to be feasible.  A strategic-level simulation of WW2 in the Pacific?  Make that turn-based.  Three Star Wars heroes fighting a dark Jedi and a squad of Stormtroopers?  Give me my fucking real-time pew pew.

Just got done playing the Witcher, the game is running on modified Aurora engine so i'm guessing it's turn-based under the hood but frankly i don't see how making it "real real time" instead would make the gameplay any different. It even has the third person mode that requires one to aim at stuff with the center of their screen rather than straight mouse clicks, if the extra cock-stabbing midget factor is really desired.

[geldonyetich2]

Turn-based isn't obsolete.  Taking a look at chess, you can see that the point of the turn-based mechanic is to give their players time to think and that becomes the game.  We could turn it into real-time chess, but then it's an entirely different game.

So I could see a turn-based RPG as succeeding.  The only trouble is, as far as an online space is concerned, it means all the other players wait around while you make your move.  You're forced to put in a time limit and, if the player lags past that, they lose their turn.  You're left wondering if turn-based strategy is worth the sacrifice.

[tmp]

The only trouble is, as far as an online space is concerned, it means all the other players wait around while you make your move.  You're forced to put in a time limit and, if the player lags past that, they lose their turn.  You're left wondering if turn-based strategy is worth the sacrifice.

It's how your average MMO works at the moment, with the certain turn size and forced auto-advance. Get the turn length close enough to zero and it's the fabled Real Time. When WA said fuck the tabletop rules i took it more like motion to discard the whole rpg tables-and-dices mechanics that determine if you actually manage to pull off the shit you are trying to pull off, rather than rage against the turn length... could be wrong, though.

[geldonyetich2]

If you're willing to go that far, I could say just about any game is a turn-based game under the understanding that CPU execute their instructions sequentially.  Personally, I draw the line between "Turn-based" and "Real-time" as whether or not players are given time to think before acting.

[DarkSign]

Looks like this move is almost equal to the original FASA getting their IP back from M$. And Jordan Weisman is on board. Check out wiki to find out who he is : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jordan_Weisman
Perhaps not an icon video games, but he's known to the gaming industry in general. He's the founder of FASA (makers of PnP RPG Shadowrun, miniatures game Battletech, and possibly one of the coolest tabletop gaming companies before they dissolved) and WizKids (that's right... Mage Knight. Collectible Miniature Crack.).

Sharon Turner Mulvihill, another big name for Shadowrun, is part of the company.

Might be promising.

[geldonyetich2]

I honestly had no idea that the founder of Wizkids, current holder of some of FA$A's best copyrights, was also the founder of FASA.

[tmp]

If you're willing to go that far, I could say just about any game is a turn-based game under the understanding that CPU execute their instructions sequentially.  Personally, I draw the line between "Turn-based" and "Real-time" as whether or not players are given time to think before acting.

Pretty much, or from different angle you could say that lot of FPS games (of single player variety) can be easily seen/made turn-based simply because you can pause them at any time and ponder your next action till cows come home. In any case the point is moot, for MMO that is anything more than just chat room where you find other people to play instanced games that involve no more than few of them, you can expect the timeline to advance on its own at whatever rate they deem suitable.

[DarkSign]

I honestly had no idea that the founder of Wizkids, current holder of some of FA$A's best copyrights, was also the founder of FASA.

Ok now my sarcasm filter for this board is totally off. Was that sarcastic?