Tom Clancy's The Division

[luckton]

Luckton on uPlay here.

The soundtrack for the game is great, but I find myself muting it and playing the Deus Ex: HR soundtrack in the background anyways.

[Falconeer]

Apparently this game is breaking some sales records. I'm glad, as it's a decent game and I'd like to see it evolving.

[Furiously]

Punishing. If I had to sum the game up, that would be the one word I would use.

It's interesting how the dark zone calls back to an earlier age of video games. If you die, you will likely lose half a level of dark zone experience. If you die as a rogue you will likely lose a level and a half. You will lose a ton of dark zone currency (lots more if you are rogue). There is no good reason to go rogue currently; Other than boredom (And it can be pretty fun if you have a group decked out for ganking.)  This also leads to a lot of people trying to get in front of your guns to get shot so the person will get the rogue flag, which leads to some hilarity.

Somehow I'm enjoying it though. I think it will be very interesting when the masses meet the cat-asses in the dark zone in a week or two.

[luckton]

I'm nowhere near 30 right now, but from what I've seen on YouTube, read around on various forums, and how the DZ is laid out on paper, the system they have right now of risk vs. reward is pretty decent. The contaminated loot mechanic encourages group play to keep NPCs and PvP flagged peeps at bay, while also giving everyone a common goal to help overcome the risk of "going rogue". You're right that in a week or two it'll get worse as the top-end players will band together to flog new people coming to the zone, but by then they may have made some more balance changes.

I'll say one thing; these Massive guys working at Ubi are pretty quick on patching up stuff and responding to feedback. At least, so far it seems.

[Falconeer]

I predicted that the Dark Zone would have been pretty devoid of PvP unless they change the mechanics, and so far this is exactly what is happening. In the beta, when things didn't matter, everyone was shooting everyone. Now? After three days spent pretty much only in the DZ I have been shot.... zero times. ZERO.

As Furiously said, there are no reasons to go rogue other than shit and giggles, which will inevitably happen but considering the penatlies won't be that common. I don't feel like getting myself flagged (and then ganked) just because someone has a "some" loot I can't see in advance, considering everything drops loot in the DZ. Why would I attack anyone and put myself at risk of losing rank and money for what could be a green or even a grey drop?

As harsh as it sounds, to make it worthwhile they should do it so we can see what kind of loot (rarity) other players are carrying because that is what would trigger the risk vs. reward mechanic. Otherwise, the risk is not to have too many PKs, it is to have none.

[Kageru]

I would expect any PvP players will grind for competitive advantage first and then tears later when they are capped, bored and need someone to use that gear on.

Does losing dark-zone points disable your ability to equip some dark-zone gear or is the level requirement check just on purchase? That might make a difference.

I've watched some game-play, hiding behind cover then popping up to take some shots at ideally distant shapes doesn't look that fun. I guess console gamers are more used to it, though it wasn't something destiny needed.

[Falconeer]

Does losing dark-zone points disable your ability to equip some dark-zone gear or is the level requirement check just on purchase? That might make a difference.

Yes, losing dark-zone points disable your ability. As stated, at the moment attacking anyone in the Dark Zone has pretty much only drawbacks and very few, eventual, advantages. This is echoed by this article for example:

The current issue is that the punishment for going rogue is so severe that everyone has already decided not to do it. Going rogue is almost always a death sentence, and the rewards just aren’t worth the risk. As a result, most players will work really hard to avoid going rogue. Once you know that, it removes a lot of the tension from the Dark Zone.

I played in the DZ a bunch this weekend, and found that other players almost never went rogue. Several times I ran into yahoos who saw that I was carrying loot and repeatedly tried to jump into my line of fire to trick me into going rogue, so they could kill me and take my stuff without going rogue themselves. In general, though, everyone plays it cool. Late last night I saw a couple of well-attended extractions where every player simply unloaded their stuff and bailed, without a shot fired.

Sure, life at level 30 might be different, but the design and the way the risk vs. reward mechanic is tuned in this build strongly discourages PvP-ing in... the PvP area.

[luckton]

Maybe for organized gank squads the risk/reward factor may be different, but for the lone wolfs out there? Nah, lone wolfs only do it for the lulz.

[Evildrider]

http://i.imgur.com/l7B6I4B.gifv

 

[Surlyboi]

I'm fine with the penalties for going rogue at this point. If for nothing else, the tears of wanna-be gankers. The whining of the "killer" class is pure joy.

[Falconeer]

Having the problem of discouraging PvP in the PvP area doesn't have much to do with the "killer" class entitlement though. Sounds to me like their design needs some adjustments.

[Furiously]

Does losing dark-zone points disable your ability to equip some dark-zone gear or is the level requirement check just on purchase? That might make a difference.

Yes, losing dark-zone points disable your ability. As stated, at the moment attacking anyone in the Dark Zone has pretty much only drawbacks and very few, eventual, advantages. This is echoed by this article for example:

You might want to re-check this. I was able to keep using everything I had made and bought when I hit 50 after I died and de-leveled below 50.

[Falconeer]

You are right. I stand corrected. My mistake.

[patience]

Read some news that as a new IP it broke a ton of records. Is it another treadmill game with content to be consumed or does it have repeatable systems that are thoughtfully considered as end game content?

[lesion]

Prettiest Treadmill Q1 2016
End game is muy sparse-o right now. Basically it's either scaled-up missions you've already played or running around the PvP-flagged area where most people just farm NPCs.

[Furiously]

Prettiest Treadmill Q1 2016
End game is muy sparse-o right now. Basically it's either scaled-up missions you've already played or running around the PvP-flagged area where most people just farm NPCs.

Bird tokens and division tech boxes scattered across the pvp zone are end game.

[Strazos]

Had some guys running at me firing their weapons, so naturally I fired back...only to find that I was the one who went rogue, not them.

Someone did the same later...what I found was that they were purposely missing. I thought they were just terrible shots. 

[Falconeer]

Apparently this has earned 330 million dollars in five days. I'm liking it, but damn.

[luckton]

And IGN gives it a 6.7/10.

This makes it worse than:
Star Wars Battlefront: 8/10
Evolve: 9/10
Street Fighter V: 8/10
Assassin's Creed Unity: 7.8/10
Halo Master Chief: 9/10

Guess Ubi forgot to payout the monies this time around?

[Falconeer]

Evolve: 9/10

Hahahahahahhahahahahaha!

[luckton]

Hahahahahahhahahahahaha!

I know, right? They do themselves no favors when they do this kind of shit.

[Viin]

Too bad it takes approximately 24hrs to actually get in the game once you start it. Geezus loading screens.

[Surlyboi]

And IGN gives it a 6.7/10.

This makes it worse than:
Star Wars Battlefront: 8/10
Evolve: 9/10
Street Fighter V: 8/10
Assassin's Creed Unity: 7.8/10
Halo Master Chief: 9/10

Guess Ubi forgot to payout the monies this time around?

Fucking Battlefront?

I put an hour into that and never went back. Payola confirmed.

[Ginaz]

And IGN gives it a 6.7/10.

This makes it worse than:
Star Wars Battlefront: 8/10
Evolve: 9/10
Street Fighter V: 8/10
Assassin's Creed Unity: 7.8/10
Halo Master Chief: 9/10

Guess Ubi forgot to payout the monies this time around?

Fucking Battlefront?

I put an hour into that and never went back. Payola confirmed.

I lasted about the same during the open beta.  Without the space battles, which was my favourite part of BF2, it's just another generic shooter with a Star Wars skin.

[brellium]

I like it, it has a STALKER vibe with an awesome NYC skin.

They can always open up more of the Island or flesh out more the buildings in expansions.

[Furiously]

I'm giddy for survival mode.

[SurfD]

Completely random side tangent question:

Just had this random thought at work today, about how pretty much every single game with even the faintest hint of a connection to Rainbow 6 has "Tom Clancy's" attached to it, and I had to stop and wonder.  Why the hell is his name attached to this thing. WTF does this game have to do with Tom Clancy?  Does his estate get royalties for every copy sold because it has his name on the box (considering he died almost 3 years ago).  I mean, I understand about milking a name for marketing, but sometimes you have to wonder...

[Trippy]

It's because Ubisoft bought Red Storm Entertainment which Tom Clancy co-founded (and they also worked on the game) so they have the rights to use his name on games.

[luckton]

Still trudging through. Developed a strategy for doing stuff:

1. Go to zone safe house. Unlock the house, reveal side missions from the liaison and encounters from the situation board.
2. Run around the zone doing the side missions and encounters while on a path to the story mission(s) of the zone (if it has one).
3. Grab intel on the way, else wait till done with side missions, encounters, and story mission(s). All intel for a zone gets revealed on the map thanks to BoO upgrade.
4. Do story mission(s).
5. Get dat intel.
6. Move on to next zone in level of difficulty.
7. Go back to step 1.

Working so far. Just need to gather up the intel in Clinton and I'm done with the west side zones. Then it's on the east!

Have not been to the DZ yet. Just no desire right now.

[Azazel]

Dark Zone is actually quite fun, there's more of an "unsure" vibe in there when you never know if someone's going to go rogue on you. I thought I'd hate it but I'm really quite enjoying it. I'm not interested in going rogue on people, but I sure as fuck enjoy hunting down rogues. I'm not in the capped (level 30) tier yet, but I expect that in there it'll be a bit different. Falc is looking for a different game when complaining that there's not enough PVP in there. Still, I've been killed by rogues and had my shit stolen enough times that I'm quite happy just sitting at the top of my tier with solid gear for a few days before moving up. I'm getting fond of the phrase "try it on, cunt" on an open mic when some dickherd starts pointing his gun at me. 

There are plenty of COD games out there and even Destiny's Crucible if you want unfettered PVP. This is something else that's actually quite different. If you're bitching that it's hard to see what people are carrying so you can't decide if they're worth ganking, then welcome to the point. There's a risk/reward for rogues. If you want a larger chance of getting blues, etc, from Rogue play then go PVE some named mobs with others then go rogue on those players. It's not UO, and it's not even really a "PVP zone" so much as a "danger zone."

[lesion]

Yeah, right now at 30 it's rare to see any legit rogues. I might just do it to make things interesting for others because hell if I'm grinding DZ ranks.

I also recently picked up armor with credits for headshot kills on it. I only have to kill about 66 enemies to make 10k, which I don't actually care about. I care about the pop-up above my character's head saying I just made 150 credits for ventilating some reprobate.

[Surlyboi]

Having the problem of discouraging PvP in the PvP area doesn't have much to do with the "killer" class entitlement though. Sounds to me like their design needs some adjustments.

It's not the "PvP area" though. The main thrust of the dark zone, lore-wise is that that's where the already lax laws apply less. Trust no one because they may go rogue and betray you. It's not a free-fire arena zone where everyone gets to kill everyone else willy-nilly. There are still rules of engagement and consequences to being an asshole. You want to pop off at randoms? Cool. Just be prepared to get your shit wrecked if you can't take on all comers. Make your decisions wisely.

[01101010]

Having the problem of discouraging PvP in the PvP area doesn't have much to do with the "killer" class entitlement though. Sounds to me like their design needs some adjustments.

It's not the "PvP area" though. The main thrust of the dark zone, lore-wise is that that's where the already lax laws apply less. Trust no one because they may go rogue and betray you. It's not a free-fire arena zone where everyone gets to kill everyone else willy-nilly. There are still rules of engagement and consequences to being an asshole. You want to pop off at randoms? Cool. Just be prepared to get your shit wrecked if you can't take on all comers. Make your decisions wisely.

Sadly, it's becoming a playground for bullies and teams of bullies rolling alts to twink and circumvent the penalties of dz rank/funds/key loss. I've been rez'd after being killed by mobs only to be executed as I got up and had my shit stolen 3 times already in the past 2 days - all while being taunted over comms. Frustrating since I was solo, but part of the game I accept. Of course these are the same fucks that bitch to UBI and Massive about the DZ rank penalties being too severe. This will zone if going to devolve into groups of twink bully groups and nothing else in a few weeks.

At least I don't need to get anything out of the zone since equal or better stuff can drop outside of it.

[Azazel]

I watched (most of) Angry Joe's video review of the Division last night, and I wasn't aware of how viciously rogues are punished at the top levels. Or how badly the endgame currency drops have been nerfed on the named at the top tier. It's like Falc's article was a point-by-point list of the review. Looking at it, I have to agree with Falc now that I can't see much point of going in there at cap. I'll go in to poke around, no doubt - but I can see this being a game to dip in and out of once I hit cap and play with the drip-fed new content rather than a MMO to play obsessively. 

[Venkman]

Sadly, it's becoming a playground for bullies and teams of bullies rolling alts to twink and circumvent the penalties of dz rank/funds/key loss. I've been rez'd after being killed by mobs only to be executed as I got up and had my shit stolen 3 times already in the past 2 days - all while being taunted over comms. Frustrating since I was solo, but part of the game I accept. Of course these are the same fucks that bitch to UBI and Massive about the DZ rank penalties being too severe. This will zone if going to devolve into groups of twink bully groups and nothing else in a few weeks.

Omg I love this game already.

If for no other reason than your quote could have appeared as a paraphrase on UO Stratics 100 years ago