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Title: State of the Game Post by: Teleku on April 02, 2010, 12:00:43 PM Ok, so I installed this again last night to see what the state of the game was. While the interface still isn't very great, I was easily able to start a game using a random pre-made deck and play. Everything seemed to work, and not hard to understand. Enjoyed the game. From what I can see, all the leagues and stuff are working. There still seems to be a bunch of people playing.
So, is there any reason I shouldn't play this? Is the games current state much worst than my random glance showed? I'm thinking of joining a sealed deck league, as I always enjoyed those. And god help me, if this thread doesn't get any responses, I'm going to make a new MGO thread in the gaming forum! :awesome_for_real: Title: Re: State of the Game Post by: Prospero on April 02, 2010, 12:50:59 PM I'm curious to hear how it goes for you. I've been jonsing for a MtG fix recently.
Title: Re: State of the Game Post by: Teleku on April 02, 2010, 01:19:02 PM Annnnd fuck. I just logged back in (hurray for half day off for good friday) and realized I was looking at it wrong. You can do drafts and tournaments, but Leagues STILL aren't in game. Digging through the forums reveals to me that Leagues aren't planned to be implimented until 2011, while they work on other shit. Jesus fuck.
Welp, that was quick. :awesome_for_real: I might try a sealed deck tournament, but that would probably be a large waste of money. In any event, I really enjoyed the sealed deck leagues, and they were pretty much all I played. Title: Re: State of the Game Post by: Teleku on April 07, 2010, 03:48:03 PM Just an update, if anybody has actually looked at this thread. I went ahead and played a tournament on the weekend just because. It was actually pretty fun. Game worked fine, GUI is at least no worst than it was in older versions ( :awesome_for_real:), they actually added some improvements, and I had fun. I mean, the client overall is still pretty crappy in comparison to other online game, but thats how its always been. In short, the state of the game right now is as good or better than it was when we were all originally playing.
Except for the fact that there are NO FUCKING LEAGUES. Which kills it for me. I only really enjoy playing sealed deck, and I don't have the money to keep playing sealed deck tournaments over and over. Which will kill this for me in the short term at least. Which sucks, because I really want to play. Clownshoes. Title: Re: State of the Game Post by: Johny Cee on April 08, 2010, 03:28:55 PM I play alot of limited. Mostly swiss 8 man (guaranteed 3 matches, win one pack per match win). I'm good enough that I win 2 matches on average, so it costs me a pack and 2 tix (~$6) for a couple hours entertainment and whatever cards I walk away with.
I'll dabble in Standard Constructed once I collect most of a set through drafting. The last two blocks have had amazing limited (sealed or draft) formats... There are actually quite a few "budget" alternatives for Constructed play now. Pauper (no rares, limited uncommons), the various singleton formats, and the casual tables. Momir basic used to be pretty hot. Prices have really dropped for everything outside of hot Mythic rares. Title: Re: State of the Game Post by: Thrawn on April 15, 2010, 06:37:58 PM Hmm, think I may have to update my MTGO client. Always enjoyed EDH so much and all the other "odd" formats.
Title: Re: State of the Game Post by: schild on April 15, 2010, 08:58:51 PM We're about to do a 10 man tournament at work with commons. Each person gets 200 commons (random from Troll and Toad, so total crapshoot) of 10th, Worldwake, and Zendikar (the latter two sets have gotten me totally back into MtG). It should be great as the commons in all 3 are amazing. Pauper ftw.
Title: Re: State of the Game Post by: eldaec on April 16, 2010, 10:36:57 AM Ok, getting nervous - you fucks are going to end up tempting me to download this again...
Title: Re: State of the Game Post by: Setanta on April 16, 2010, 08:50:28 PM ^^ This ^^
I stopped playing because the client was so buggy. Title: Re: State of the Game Post by: Strazos on April 18, 2010, 05:22:49 AM I stopped playing because all the league play was expensive. :drill:
Title: Re: State of the Game Post by: Johny Cee on April 18, 2010, 04:13:02 PM ^^ This ^^ I stopped playing because the client was so buggy. It's better. By better, I mean it went from catastrophically bad to just buggy. I quit last summer because I would get dropped during drafts and be unable to log back in for 15 or 20 minutes, which would lose me the draft and I'd end up with a bunch of randomly picked cards. Now, the game server likes to get hung (both players get a "waiting for opponent" message) but you relog and it's fine. Title: Re: State of the Game Post by: eldaec on April 19, 2010, 01:16:53 PM Fuckfuckfuckfuck.
Downloaded this, and it seems pretty much as stable as v2 now. Only without leagues, which I don't miss so much as others. Played some a couple of swiss drafts, had a nice BR deck last night, but probably slower than ideal for the format (4 1 drops, 5 2 drops, still too slow). Lost the first round to a mana screw (mana screw in ZEN hits hard with even one or two turns without perfect mana, all the land mechanics and the aggro bias really hurt), annoyingly had a bye second round so didn't get to play, but won third. ZEN strikes me as a good block for new draft and limited players learning the game, it really hits home the importance of good 2/3 drops and good mana when you get run over time and time again by armies of 2/1+ability for 1C. It's very apparent when you lose to inadequate mana or by having crappy early creatures - and you don't get away with it through luck as you might in other blocks. On the other hand, unless you get very lucky with mass removal, there is no viable strategy I can see beyond balls to the wall aggro. As a result it can often feel like a simple core set draft. (Johnny Cee, to answer your PM, yes that must have been me in your draft) Title: Re: State of the Game Post by: Johny Cee on April 19, 2010, 01:31:11 PM Fuckfuckfuckfuck. Downloaded this, and it seems pretty much as stable as v2 now. Only without leagues, which I don't miss so much as others. Played some a couple of swiss drafts, had a nice BR deck last night, but probably slower than ideal for the format (4 1 drops, 5 2 drops, still too slow). Lost the first round to a mana screw (mana screw in ZEN hits hard with even one or two turns without perfect mana, all the land mechanics and the aggro bias really hurt), annoyingly had a bye second round so didn't get to play, but won third. ZEN strikes me as a good block for new draft and limited players learning the game, it really hits home the importance of good 2/3 drops and good mana when you get run over time and time again by armies of 2/1+ability for 1C. It's very apparent when you lose to inadequate mana or by having crappy early creatures - and you don't get away with it through luck as you might in other blocks. On the other hand, unless you get very lucky with mass removal, there is no viable strategy I can see beyond balls to the wall aggro. As a result it can often feel like a simple core set draft. (Johnny Cee, to answer your PM, yes that must have been me in your draft) Ahh, awesome! I thought that was you, but you never know. Control decks and mid-range decks are very playable in Zen Swiss, but you need to plan for the early rush. I love limited mill or stall strategies, personally, so I'm always trying to draft that way. You really need to make sure you have some early game defense, and there actually is a pile of it in the form of walls and low power/high butt critters and removal that focuses on killing smaller stuff. It is a format that is fast enough that Seismic Shock (deals 1 damage to all creatures without flying) is maindeckable many times and things like Kraken Hatchling (0/4 for U) are actually very solid mid to late picks. Title: Re: State of the Game Post by: Aez on April 19, 2010, 01:35:53 PM (http://imgur.com/4hgEB.jpg)
Title: Re: State of the Game Post by: Margalis on April 20, 2010, 11:43:32 PM Hmmm...maybe we should form a new F13 clan. :awesome_for_real:
I really don't know much about the state of Magic these days, the last time I played was Time Spiral. Still I do get the itch every once in a while. If I have cards from the old MTGO do they transfer over? (If nothing else than to sell) Title: Re: State of the Game Post by: eldaec on April 21, 2010, 09:39:33 AM Yes, your v2 account, password and cards all good in the current client.
Title: Re: State of the Game Post by: Xilren's Twin on April 23, 2010, 06:03:55 AM Hmmm...maybe we should form a new F13 clan. :awesome_for_real: I really don't know much about the state of Magic these days, the last time I played was Time Spiral. Still I do get the itch every once in a while. If I have cards from the old MTGO do they transfer over? (If nothing else than to sell) I also am wavering on a potential relapse. I logged in last night and of my 3000+ cards, just over 200 non land cards are still standard legal. *sigh* I threw together 60 cards crap deck and played a few games against newbies; minor fun but that doesnt scratch the itch. Now i have to decide if i want to drop any money on this. Without leagues :mob: the choices for lost cost magic either seem to be buying a few tickets for a buck per, and trading for a bunch of commons and playable uncommons to fool around with standard, or the new swiss drafts. If im reading those correctly, basically for $14 (3 boosters and 2 tix) you draft 45 cards, play 3 rounds now matter how you do, and win a booster for each match win. So basically 1 guy wins 3 packs, 2 guys win 2, 4 people win 1, and only the 0-3 guy wins nothing. Still pisses me off they cant/wont come up with a method with mmo style monthly pricing for a reasonable amount of play per month. Jerks. Title: Re: State of the Game Post by: Ingmar on April 23, 2010, 02:07:48 PM I haven't played MTG since ~1999. Is there somewhere I can look to get a reasonably brief summary of all the rules changes since then? I know they got rid of interrupts and mana burn since I stopped playing but beyond that I really have no clue.
Title: Re: State of the Game Post by: schild on April 23, 2010, 02:54:31 PM Interrupts are just instants, as they always were. There are new mechanics in every set, but they write all that shit on cards. Short of mana burn, no major changes to the core game.
Title: Re: State of the Game Post by: Ingmar on April 23, 2010, 03:07:15 PM The stack is the same? That's the main one I wonder about. I don't really want to jump into a game and realize I'm doing things wrong based on my own last-century ideas about the order things resolve in.
Title: Re: State of the Game Post by: schild on April 23, 2010, 03:08:38 PM Same as always, last in first out.
Title: Re: State of the Game Post by: eldaec on April 23, 2010, 03:52:09 PM Combat damage no longer uses the stack. This guy is quite annoyed about it:
(http://magiccards.info/scans/en/evg/32.jpg) And instead of splitting combat damage between blockers however you like, you have to specify the order you are going to kill things - except if your creature has deathtouch - in which case you can do whatever the fuck. The order is declared in the Declare Blockers step, and combat tricks are played at the end of Declare Blockers. The combat damage step now has no opportunity for anyone to do anything, damage is calculated and dealt immeadiately. Mana pools empty after every step - occasionally that means you can't float like you once could. And they changed a bunch of terminology in order to make the game sound more suitable for 9 year olds. Full breakdown: http://www.wizards.com/magic/magazine/article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/feature/42a Title: Re: State of the Game Post by: Ingmar on April 23, 2010, 03:57:49 PM Thanks, very helpful.
Title: Re: State of the Game Post by: schild on April 23, 2010, 04:52:47 PM Quote As a side effect, multiple instances of lifelink are no longer cumulative. Ok, balls. Time to take the Loxodon's and Armadillo cloaks out of my decks. Stacking them with Angels of Mercy just seems stupid now. Title: Re: State of the Game Post by: Ingmar on April 23, 2010, 04:56:52 PM That's kind of funny. Combat damage is back to working more like how it worked when I stopped playing, having spent ~10 years doing something different.
Title: Re: State of the Game Post by: Xilren's Twin on April 24, 2010, 09:56:32 PM Crap. I find myself doing a M10 swiss draft now. I am so weak...
.. on the plus side, went 2-1 with a WG deck with 2 Serra Angels, 1 Overrun, somes elves to pull lands out and a couple +3/+3 auras, plus my secret weapon - 2 ornithopers! Round 3 Game 3 im losing 23 - 6 to a pure green deck that must have gained 15 points of life with stupid artifact that gives +1 per green spell. He had a 2/3 forestwalker nibbling me to death, while everything else is ground stalled. Cant find my pacficism or other Serra and think im done for. I finally draw my own 2/3 forestwalker and lifelink him to stabilize, then draw my Oakenform to make him 5/6. After that it was all over but the crying and i ended up winning with 28 life. :awesome_for_real: It was a weird draft; got like 0 rares at all, and faced two mono color decks. Damn it; now ill have to do another next week. Title: Re: State of the Game Post by: eldaec on April 25, 2010, 09:23:43 AM Quote As a side effect, multiple instances of lifelink are no longer cumulative. Ok, balls. Time to take the Loxodon's and Armadillo cloaks out of my decks. Stacking them with Angels of Mercy just seems stupid now. Armadillo Cloak never got errata'd to give lifelink, as far as I can tell it still stacks as a triggered ability. http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=207890 Title: Re: State of the Game Post by: Famine on April 25, 2010, 10:34:14 AM I'm up for a draft if anyone is still playing. Just updated my client yesterday for some odd reason.
Title: Re: State of the Game Post by: Johny Cee on April 25, 2010, 02:36:19 PM Same as always, last in first out. Back in the day, it used to be first in first out, which is why counters had to be interrupts instead of instants. Course, back in the day we would cast Dark Ritual into 3 Black Vise, and that was how we liked it! Hmmm...maybe we should form a new F13 clan. :awesome_for_real: I really don't know much about the state of Magic these days, the last time I played was Time Spiral. Still I do get the itch every once in a while. If I have cards from the old MTGO do they transfer over? (If nothing else than to sell) I also am wavering on a potential relapse. I logged in last night and of my 3000+ cards, just over 200 non land cards are still standard legal. *sigh* I threw together 60 cards crap deck and played a few games against newbies; minor fun but that doesnt scratch the itch. Now i have to decide if i want to drop any money on this. Without leagues :mob: the choices for lost cost magic either seem to be buying a few tickets for a buck per, and trading for a bunch of commons and playable uncommons to fool around with standard, or the new swiss drafts. If im reading those correctly, basically for $14 (3 boosters and 2 tix) you draft 45 cards, play 3 rounds now matter how you do, and win a booster for each match win. So basically 1 guy wins 3 packs, 2 guys win 2, 4 people win 1, and only the 0-3 guy wins nothing. Still pisses me off they cant/wont come up with a method with mmo style monthly pricing for a reasonable amount of play per month. Jerks. Xilren, hit me up if we are on at the same time. I can give you piles of commons/uncommons/low value rares from recent sets, since many of them I literally have piles from waaay too many drafts. I really should just bot out my account for a while... There are a bunch of formats that may be better for you, cost wise. Pauper is all commons (though there are a couple of "chase" commons from low old sets), and some of the singleton-type formats aren't too bad because they don't revolve around having 4 ofs a bunch of chase rares. Edit: There are some other alternate format things going on that I really don't know anything about. There is some kind of Planeswalker game, that you buy a booster pack of special cards usable only in that format. Also, keep your eye on the special product section of the store. Wizards has been producing a couple of different special products that seem like good "ins" to formats. The "From the Vault" series collects 15 cards that are usually highly desirable, and the "Duel Decks" give you 2 decks with a smattering of some very good cards (the Blue/Red one had 2 planeswalkers, Fact or Fiction, and a bunch of other decent stuff). Title: Re: State of the Game Post by: Johny Cee on April 25, 2010, 08:57:42 PM While looking at the options for making a new game, I think I've discovered an interesting avenue for casual play. MTGO lets create games for Duel Decks.... those are the prepackaged decks sold in the store for ~$20. I've played a couple of those in cardboard, and they are usually well balanced against the opposing deck.
They also have the benefit of including some pretty decent cards. For instance, the Jace vs Chanda duel deck has a blue deck and a red deck. Besides 1 copy of each planeswalker, there is some good stuff like Fact or Fiction. The White/Black deck includes a pile of rares like Akroma and Promise of Power, and Demonic Tutor. Not sure how often those decks are played in the casual room, but might be a good option for people that want to occasionally scratch the MtG itch. Title: Re: State of the Game Post by: eldaec on April 30, 2010, 12:15:10 PM This is new....
http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/other/04272010e ... for a week before the release events, you can play 'prerelease events'. These are sealed flights that cost extra and have reduced prizes. :uhrr: Title: Re: State of the Game Post by: Ingmar on April 30, 2010, 01:17:19 PM You get product a week before you can buy it in the store, or whatever, which I think is supposed to be the incentive.
Title: Re: State of the Game Post by: Johny Cee on April 30, 2010, 02:08:53 PM This is new.... http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/other/04272010e ... for a week before the release events, you can play 'prerelease events'. These are sealed flights that cost extra and have reduced prizes. :uhrr: You also get a copy of whatever the Prerelease card is, which is usually a decent mythic or rare. In this case it's Emrakul, one of the 3 mythic rare eldrazi. You can take advantage of hype before general release to sell any cards for inflated amounts before supply catches up with demand, as well. Title: Re: State of the Game Post by: Xilren's Twin on April 30, 2010, 09:42:02 PM In next M10 draft (which cost me zero thanks to winning 2 packs and trading cards), some lucky sod got PASSED a second pick Banelayer Angel (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=191065)...a rare which is worth like 50 tickets ($50) just on it's own.
:facepalm: That one card could have paid for a lotta magic... One the plus side, i did pick up my first Planeswalker in the draft: Chandra Nalaar (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=191242), which is nice, plus 2 howling mines and 2 of the dual lands, so not bad. Currently twiddling my thumbs waiting around b/c my second opponent failed to show so i got the match win, but have to wait about an hour. Title: Re: State of the Game Post by: Margalis on May 01, 2010, 08:13:35 PM So I'm downloading the client now. I think my user name is Margalis, look for me online tonight or tomorrow. (And give me free shit, thanks!)
Title: Re: State of the Game Post by: schild on May 01, 2010, 08:51:32 PM I think I'm going to start drafting.
Title: Re: State of the Game Post by: Margalis on May 01, 2010, 09:41:39 PM Hmm I still have TSP and Planar Chaos boosters on my account...
Anyway yeah, I'm Margalis, hit me up Title: Re: State of the Game Post by: eldaec on May 02, 2010, 03:41:01 AM M10 drafting is nix tix for a week from the 5th.
They have a rotating schedule of nic tix drafts to encourage some use of the older formats. http://www.wizards.com/magic/magazine/article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/other/032309b Title: Re: State of the Game Post by: Xilren's Twin on May 06, 2010, 07:01:26 AM BTW, wotc has a nice draft simulator up if you want to practice with M2010 cards and see how a draft would go. Neat little tool; hope they expand it to other sets.
M2010 Draft Simulator (http://www.wizards.com/magic/tcg/resources.aspx?x=mtg/tcg/resources/boosterdraftsimulator) Edit: shoulda known they'd do a half assed job. It's the same 3 packs over and over. Which makes it useless. Title: Re: State of the Game Post by: Johny Cee on May 09, 2010, 02:55:38 PM This is new.... http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/other/04272010e ... for a week before the release events, you can play 'prerelease events'. These are sealed flights that cost extra and have reduced prizes. :uhrr: I actually did a few of these this weekend. Thirty tix for a sealed event (open 6 packs and build a deck), everyone gets a Emrakul promo card. -First event went 2-2 due to not reading cards. Won a single pack and got a promo... So 7 packs and one Mythic for 30. -Second event went 3-1, but wasn't in the top 2. Won 4 packs, a regular Emrakul promo, and a foil Emrakul promo. Ten packs and two promos (one foil) for 30, better. -Last event, won the first 3 matches and split with the other 3-0 guy so walked out with 7 packs in winnings. Thirteen packs and two promos. The competition really wasn't too tough, though sealed is much more luck based. Honestly, I should turn around and sell my good picks now while the prices are abnormally high... I have a pile of good value (right now) cards that will only crash in price. Sitting on a pile of boosters (12) to use for draft now, as well. Title: Re: State of the Game Post by: grabble on May 10, 2010, 08:30:35 AM BTW, wotc has a nice draft simulator up if you want to practice with M2010 cards and see how a draft would go. Neat little tool; hope they expand it to other sets. M2010 Draft Simulator (http://www.wizards.com/magic/tcg/resources.aspx?x=mtg/tcg/resources/boosterdraftsimulator) Edit: shoulda known they'd do a half assed job. It's the same 3 packs over and over. Which makes it useless. Try this one: http://draft.bestiaire.org/ (http://draft.bestiaire.org/) Title: Re: State of the Game Post by: eldaec on May 10, 2010, 10:05:44 AM That promo card is making the casual room annoying as hell. It's like playing tf2 when they add class achievements. Easy enough to play around but you find yourself modifying decks just to squash the jellyfish o' doom.
Title: Re: State of the Game Post by: Raging Turtle on May 11, 2010, 04:42:02 PM Don't you bastards dare pull me back into this.
Title: Re: State of the Game Post by: Raging Turtle on May 11, 2010, 04:42:28 PM Quick, someone tell me how the client is still crap.
Title: Re: State of the Game Post by: Draegan on May 11, 2010, 04:48:43 PM It's shit.
Title: Re: State of the Game Post by: Xilren's Twin on May 11, 2010, 07:20:45 PM Try this one: http://draft.bestiaire.org/ (http://draft.bestiaire.org/) MUCH better; danke! I need to get a feel for the card sets before drafting in anything other than M10. Come to the dark side; why bitch about mmorpg xp grinds and bugs when you can bitch about mtgo money grinds and bugs :awesome_for_real: Title: Re: State of the Game Post by: eldaec on May 12, 2010, 12:38:31 PM Quick, someone tell me how the client is still crap. In a game it's slightly better than v2. Elsewhere slightly worse. I'm not convinced the game itself is quite as good as Rav/Tsp era mind you. Power creep seems to have made everything just slightly less interesting. Lightning bolt is now almost exactly as interesting as shock was a few years back. Hmmm. Title: Re: State of the Game Post by: Ingmar on June 22, 2010, 04:04:17 PM Signed up, username ibell if anyone wants to put up with a couple practice games against the awful decks I am able to construct right now. :drill:
I haven't actually played a game yet so the interface is going to be a mystery to me I'm sure at first. Title: Re: State of the Game Post by: Ingmar on June 23, 2010, 11:20:45 AM Well, I won 13 or 14 out of 20 games in the noob room with the random R/G I put together with what I had, so I guess I'm ready to move on to bigger things in the sealed/draft world.
EDIT: I will just edit since this is still the last post. 2-1 in my first draft (picked ROE since it seemed like a pretty straightforward environment), which marks my first tournament since 1998ish. Not awful I suppose, I need to be better at judging when to mulligan as that was a contributing factor in both games I lost. Title: Re: State of the Game Post by: Ingmar on July 01, 2010, 04:32:42 PM ROE is a really fun set to draft, but it also seems like a really easy set to draft and I'm not sure why I'm doing as well as I am. I've moved on from swiss to 4-3-2-2 as it seems almost a foregone conclusion that I'll win the first game.
Other sets have not been as kind, ROE seems to have a nice clear strategy to it, M10 and Zen/WWK seem significantly more random and removal is really scarce in M10 in particular. Title: Re: State of the Game Post by: schild on July 08, 2010, 07:34:36 AM Quote Other sets have not been as kind, ROE seems to have a nice clear strategy to it, M10 and Zen/WWK seem significantly more random and removal is really scarce in M10 in particular. Blue / White Levelers Blue / White Fliers Blue / White Control Red / Black Removal Red / Green Aggro Green Ramp Eldrazi Green / Blue / White Control Blue / Black / Red Control I really don't think there's a clear strategy in Eldrazi but there are ones that are more likely to win than not (RB Removal and UW Fliers being those more likely). Dawnglare is a first pick bomb. Anyway, I've drafted Eldrazi about 85 times in real life and doing my last one tonight before the pre-release. I think I'm gonna live the dream and go straight 5 color jank. Edit: I'm just gonna throw this out there, but I can't say more - you're going to LOVE drafting M11. Title: Re: State of the Game Post by: Ingmar on July 08, 2010, 12:20:44 PM You left out "lawl vent sentinels" which I actually won one with. <3
Title: Re: State of the Game Post by: Johny Cee on July 08, 2010, 04:50:25 PM Quote Other sets have not been as kind, ROE seems to have a nice clear strategy to it, M10 and Zen/WWK seem significantly more random and removal is really scarce in M10 in particular. Blue / White Levelers Blue / White Fliers Blue / White Control Red / Black Removal Red / Green Aggro Green Ramp Eldrazi Green / Blue / White Control Blue / Black / Red Control I really don't think there's a clear strategy in Eldrazi but there are ones that are more likely to win than not (RB Removal and UW Fliers being those more likely). Dawnglare is a first pick bomb. Anyway, I've drafted Eldrazi about 85 times in real life and doing my last one tonight before the pre-release. I think I'm gonna live the dream and go straight 5 color jank. Edit: I'm just gonna throw this out there, but I can't say more - you're going to LOVE drafting M11. Those ROE strategies basically boil down to a couple of flavors of beatdown and a bit of control, with a side of ramp. It's really pretty straight-forward limited design. It's solid design, but if you've been drafting a long time it doesn't really engage you. Compare that to Zen block. You had a bunch of options for pseudo-combo decks, or primary one strategy/secondary another (throw in hedron crab!). UW fliers, with a side of mill strategy for instance... or combine milling or hand disruption with activated Bloodchief Ascension (Archive Trap + Ascension is an instakill, and almost guaranteed to get either an "awesome combo" or RageQuit out of your opponent). Mind Sludge + activated Ascension was hilarious as well... Many of the ally strategies could be a hell of alot of fun. One of my favorite interactions was the ally that mills cards + Rite of Replication, to instantly mill your opponents deck. ALA block, because of the multicolor emphasis and wide range of cards with medium power, was a hell of alot of fun because of the play diversity. Title: Re: State of the Game Post by: Ingmar on July 08, 2010, 04:59:18 PM Zen block for me has come down to 'draft as many evasive 2 drops as you can', I find ROE to be much more engaging so far.
Title: Re: State of the Game Post by: eldaec on July 09, 2010, 12:07:47 AM Personally I'm bored of both.
They seem far too samey. Zen has the all aggro all the time problem, and although RoE has a whole bunch of slightly different mid range strategies, most of them feel exactly the same to play against. OTOH TPF nix tix drafts this week, I have old product to use! Title: Re: State of the Game Post by: Ingmar on July 09, 2010, 01:22:58 AM Won another ROE tonight with a U/W leveler deck with a couple nice umbras (and somehow no teachers :uhrr:). Unless you completely change your mind halfway through pack 2 or something it seems pretty difficult to draft a truly bad deck in ROE.
I regressed one guy's brimstone mage at level 2 3 times in one game, he got kind of mad. :oh_i_see: Title: Re: State of the Game Post by: schild on July 13, 2010, 07:52:32 PM M11 is amazing. Probably the best core set ever.
Picked up a case. Totally worth it. Also, doing the San Antonio PTQ with some homebrew rogue shit based around Leyline of Anticipation and Grave Titan (yay Esper is back, maybe). Title: Re: State of the Game Post by: Ingmar on July 13, 2010, 11:20:53 PM Seems like red is still pretty lame from a Limited standpoint in M11 unfortunately. I think they may have gone a little overboard with the white fliers too.
Title: Re: State of the Game Post by: schild on July 14, 2010, 09:00:27 AM Red isn't so bad you just have to have a lot of 2-of and 3-ofs if you're going that direction in limited play.
ALTERNATIVELY, one Fire Servant changes the math. Card is so strong it's stupid. With that out of the way - I will avoid the ever loving shit out of Red in M11 drafts whenever possible. It's a UW environment just like RoE all over again. Title: Re: State of the Game Post by: Ingmar on July 14, 2010, 12:43:58 PM Yeah, agreed, U/W is pretty silly. I main decked 2 plummets at the pre-release and it paid off in spades, there was always a good target for them.
Vengeful archon is goddamn ridiculous too. Add on that I had a whispersilk cloak on it half the time and it is just outright unfair. Title: Re: State of the Game Post by: schild on July 14, 2010, 12:50:08 PM I have been maindecking naturalize whenever I play green.
It's always worth it. Title: Re: State of the Game Post by: Thrawn on July 19, 2010, 11:57:04 AM Went and played at the local M11 release this weekend...as I headed home I remembered why I hate sealed format so very much.
Title: Re: State of the Game Post by: Ingmar on July 19, 2010, 12:02:25 PM I do actually think there's generally a lot of skill involved in sealed, contrary to the 'its too random' thing people usually think about it, but because it is such an expensive and rarely-played format very few people get enough pratice with it to really make it work. I know if I had the pre-release to do over again I'd probably have built differently just because I had a better understanding afterwards what sorts of things the set could really throw at me, and I'm sure if I did a few more events I could refine that even more.
Title: Re: State of the Game Post by: Thrawn on July 19, 2010, 12:06:33 PM My best cards out off all my packs being an Elvish Archdruid, a 5/5 red flyer and a pair of lightning bolts has nothing to do with skill when the guy I'm playing drops a Frost Titan and a Platinum Angel on me in the same game.
Title: Re: State of the Game Post by: Thrawn on July 19, 2010, 12:09:23 PM I've bee on the other side as well when my Lowryn sealed gave me Profane Command, Shriekmaw, Chamelon Colosus and a slew of cheap removal and fatties. Stomped that entire tournament and thought it was just as dumb how luck based sealed is. :P
Title: Re: State of the Game Post by: Thrawn on July 19, 2010, 12:13:12 PM Sorry for the post spam, don't have an edit button on my post browser. Replace Collusus with Garruk, Collosus isn't even Llorwyn I believe. :P
Title: Re: State of the Game Post by: Ingmar on July 19, 2010, 12:20:10 PM Well I'm not saying there's NO random elements to it. :-P
Title: Re: State of the Game Post by: Thrawn on July 19, 2010, 12:21:57 PM I should of just known better, but I enjoy releases because lots of old freinds show up that don't play much and its very casual and fun in thi area. I think I need to go to relases, but not play. :P
Title: Re: State of the Game Post by: Ingmar on July 19, 2010, 12:51:27 PM I actually think that it is better for the game as a whole to have that random element anyway - without it it would be like chess, the best player would nearly always win instead of just mostly always. That chance to eke out a win against a really good player is a powerful motivator for keeping people involved. At the same time it is apparent that skill plays a large role in limited since there are players that manage to maintain a high ELO rating in limited consistently.
Now, moving into general rant mode, not directed at anyone in particular (well maybe at the guy who rage quit on a game I played on MTGO Saturday with "nice draw" as his parting comment) because I just find this whole topic pretty interesting: Really this discussion gets into something really key about how people play and improve at these games, especially the ones with limited formats that on the surface appear to be too random. People as a general rule tend to focus way too much on externalities in limited play that they have no control over, in particular their opponent's luck and their own luck, both in game (help I drew no land) and out (help my opponent drew 3 baneslayer angels.) It is really really easy to just chalk up a result to these factors (and to be fair they can be sizeable) and leave a tournament without improving as a result. The key is always afterwards, looking at the things you *did* have control over - in game decisions, deck construction, level of preparation with the set list, even shit like did you remember to eat before the tournament is important - and figuring out a few things you could have done better. Iterating through this process every time you do a limited event will fairly quickly improve your results. The problem of course is actual sealed events are expensive and infrequent, so the chances to get the repetitions are fewer and less attractive financially than they are for the draft side of limited, and what works in draft doesn't necessarily work in sealed and vice-versa; in particular the average power of a deck you can expect to run up against in each format can be wildly different. What you end up with is a format where most of the people there are at a similar level of non-prepared and so games tend to go to whoever draws their bomb first more than they otherwise would, and meanwhile that one dude who is always well-prepared wins more often than not, while tending to be perceived by the other players as really lucky. This is something I never really grasped at all the first time I played MTG many years ago, it took playing another game competitively that had a similar sealed format* for me to really get it, and I'm already light years better at limited MTG than I ever was 10 years ago, even though I've only been playing for what, a month-ish this time. It really does work. *D&D Minis, which substituted die rolls for card drawing in the 'random gameplay element' department but had basically the same rarity and 'deckbuilding' structure, albeit with less total things to pick from. Title: Re: State of the Game Post by: schild on July 20, 2010, 07:58:31 AM Going to PTQ Amsterdam in San Antonio this Saturday. Running a post-M11 variant of Grixis Control I think. Though there's still a chance I go RW Control or RG Ramp Beatdown.
Anyone else going or in San Antonio already that wants to maybe? Title: Re: State of the Game Post by: Thrawn on July 22, 2010, 06:52:04 AM Going to PTQ Amsterdam in San Antonio this Saturday. Running a post-M11 variant of Grixis Control I think. Though there's still a chance I go RW Control or RG Ramp Beatdown. Anyone else going or in San Antonio already that wants to maybe? Good luck! A buddy of mine took 4th at the St.Paul PTQ, he hit top 8 and then lost to hit best match-up. :uhrr: Title: Re: State of the Game Post by: schild on July 23, 2010, 07:48:27 AM After testing last night I'm 50/50 beating Jund Preboard and nearly 100% post-board.
Well, not 100% I got manascrewed one game but you know, any deck can lose to mana screw. So I'm 100% losses versus Grixis Control I guess. Hurf. Cascading from a Bit Blast into a Thought Hemorrhage basically means it's time for the opponent to scoop. I'm going to FNM tonight and am hoping to catch up with someone playing GR Titan Ramp and Turboland casually as I don't actually care about winning an Anathemancer card. Title: Re: State of the Game Post by: Ingmar on July 23, 2010, 11:12:09 AM Drafted Shards last night for the first time, what the hell is going on in that format, it is crazy. Seemed like everyone was forced to play 3-4 colors but there wasn't really enough mana fixing to go around so a lot of games were very one sided. Went 2-1, so I can't complain TOO much, but wow.
Title: Re: State of the Game Post by: schild on July 23, 2010, 11:28:28 AM Shards was a multicolor format.
There's a MESS of color fixing in that block though. Trip lands, etc. 2-1 for the first time in that block isn't so bad though. Red, Green, Black I assume (Jund)? Title: Re: State of the Game Post by: Ingmar on July 23, 2010, 11:34:54 AM Yep. The first guy I played said "what the hell is this, constructed?" after I dropped 2 blightnings and a sprouting thrinax in the first game. :grin: Slave of Bolas is a totally sick card in limited, too.
I could have pretty easily won the whole thing I think but the guy I played in the third round just had faster draws than me both times, and I was a little thin on actual removal. Plus my swamps decided to disappear. I did finally draw a jund obelisk or whatever when I was at like 8 health but I ended up 1 mana short of being able to save myself sadly. My takeaway from all that is I still need to get better at recognizing hands where I need to mulligan. 2 lands on the draw is fine in some formats but I should really have been throwing those back if the lands weren't the right ones here. Title: Re: State of the Game Post by: schild on July 23, 2010, 11:36:16 AM I teched out my Grixis with Slave of Bolas, and I've got to say, I can't complain. Makes UW control think twice about doing ANYTHING.
Title: Re: State of the Game Post by: sigil on July 24, 2010, 08:30:21 PM There's this douchebag I play against who combines lifellink, protections and the congregations to be a royal PITA.
Dropping this at the start of the game the last time i played got him to rant about '11 core before I proceeded to take him out in five turns. http://www.gatheringmagic.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/leyline_of_punishment.jpg He was smoldering, but i laughed when i said. it's just an enchantment, you telling me you hack one card? The white version completely cockblocks whole bunches of shit. Good times. Also, did you see the new deathtouch rule? Fucking brutal shit that is. Edited after reading up on the different way the white leyline just fucks all sorts of things up. Title: Re: State of the Game Post by: schild on July 25, 2010, 11:18:16 AM The new Deathtouch rule is how people thought Deathtouch worked all the way back to Alpha, it's what it should've been.
White Leyline is overrated (I've only seen it casually, but I never play direct burn after board in any deck - and I never play RDW or Pyromancer alikes seriously). Title: Re: State of the Game Post by: Margalis on July 25, 2010, 05:08:14 PM What exactly is the new Deathtouch rule? I briefly read about the rule changes but I don't really get it.
Title: Re: State of the Game Post by: sigil on July 25, 2010, 06:50:33 PM leylines are overrated except for people who can't remove enchantments.
as far as deathtouch ,i could copy and paste but really a google search for deathtouch 2011 will give you that the guys from WOTC said when it first hit with examples tat made it clear, espectially how it works with trample now. Title: Re: State of the Game Post by: Xilren's Twin on July 26, 2010, 05:28:39 AM Here you go in full rules text glory:
Quote : Starting with M11, deathtouch no longer ignores blocking order in situations involving multiple blockers. Additionally, you only need to assign a single point of damage from a creature with deathtouch to each blocker, which makes deathtouch a potent combination with trample. A 4/4 with trample and deathtouch can assign one damage to a blocking 8/8 and the other 3 damage to the defending player. The full FAQ entry for deathtouch appears below. Note that it's subject to changes before the final version of the FAQ is posted, and not all the cards in the examples appear in M11. ***Revised Keyword Ability: Deathtouch*** Deathtouch is an ability usually seen on creatures. How it works has been changed. The new rules for deathtouch are as follows: 702.2. Deathtouch 702.2a Deathtouch is a static ability. 702.2b Any nonzero amount of combat damage assigned to a creature by a source with deathtouch is considered to be lethal damage, regardless of that creature's toughness. See rule 510.1c-d. 702.2c A creature that's been dealt damage by a source with deathtouch since the last time state-based actions were checked is destroyed as a state-based action. See rule 704. 702.2d The deathtouch rules function no matter what zone an object with deathtouch deals damage from. 702.2e If an object changes zones before an effect causes it to deal damage, its last known information is used to determine whether it had deathtouch. 702.2f Multiple instances of deathtouch on the same object are redundant. * If a creature (whether it has deathtouch or not) blocks or is blocked by multiple creatures, those creatures must be put into damage assignment order during the declare blockers step. The creature then assigns its combat damage to those creatures according to the damage assignment order announced for it. It can't assign combat damage to one of those creatures unless each creature that precedes that creature in its order is assigned lethal damage. If a creature with deathtouch blocks or is blocked by multiple creatures, everything works exactly the same way with one exception: assigning even 1 of that creature's damage to a creature is considered to be lethal damage. Example: The damage assignment order of an attacking Acidic Slime (a 2/2 creature with deathtouch) is Spined Wurm (a 5/4 creature) then Siege Mastodon (a 3/5 creature) then Runeclaw Bear (a 2/2 creature). Acidic Slime can assign 1 damage to the Wurm and 1 damage to the Mastodon, or 2 damage to the Wurm. It can't assign damage to the Bear. Each creature Acidic Slime deals damage to is destroyed. * If an attacking creature with deathtouch and trample becomes blocked, the attacking creature first assigns damage to the creature(s) blocking it. Once all those blocking creatures are assigned lethal damage, any remaining damage is assigned as its controller chooses among those blocking creatures and the player or planeswalker the creature is attacking. However, since the creature has deathtouch, assigning even 1 damage to a creature is considered to be lethal damage. Example: Yavimaya Wurm (a 6/4 creature with trample) is equipped with Gorgon Flail (an Equipment that grants the equipped creature +1/+1 and deathtouch). It attacks a player and is blocked by Siege Mastodon (a 3/5 creature). Yavimaya Wurm must assign at least 1 damage to the Mastodon. Its remaining damage may be assigned as its controller chooses between the Mastodon and the defending player. Notably, the Wurm may assign 1 damage to the Mastodon and 6 damage to the defending player. After that damage is dealt to the Mastodon, the Mastodon will be destroyed. * If a creature with deathtouch and another creature both block or are blocked by a creature, the other creature may take into account the fact that any combat damage dealt by a creature with deathtouch is considered to be lethal damage. Example: An attacking Acidic Slime (a 2/2 creature with deathtouch) and an attacking Yavimaya Wurm (a 6/4 creature with trample) are both blocked by a Palace Guard (a 1/4 creature that can block any number of creatures). The Slime must assign its 2 damage to the Guard. Since the Guard is being assigned lethal damage, the Wurm's 6 damage may be assigned as its controller chooses between the Guard and the defending player. Notably, the Wurm may assign all 6 damage to the defending player. It doesn't matter which creature's damage is assigned first, as long as the final damage assignment follows all the applicable parameters. * The rule that causes creatures dealt damage by a source with deathtouch to be destroyed applies to any damage, not just combat damage. * A regeneration effect can save a creature that's been dealt damage by a source with deathtouch. * If multiple state-based actions would destroy a creature at the same time (because it's been dealt lethal damage and been dealt damage by a source with deathtouch), a single regeneration effect will replace all of them and save the creature. * If a creature is dealt damage by a source with deathtouch, it'll be destroyed as a state-based action. That means there's no time to react between the time the creature is dealt damage and the time it's destroyed. If you want to put a regeneration shield on it, or sacrifice it for some effect, or anything else, you must do so before the damage is actually dealt. * The rules that care about deathtouch function no matter where the source with deathtouch is. In other words, if a spell or ability causes a card with deathtouch that's not on the battlefield to deal damage to a creature (like Selfless Exorcist's ability does, for example), that creature will be destroyed. This isn't the same as damage dealt by a source that has changed zones; see below. * If a source of damage hasn't changed zones by the time that damage is dealt, its characteristics are checked to see if it has deathtouch at that time. If the source has changed zones by then, its last existence in the zone it was expected to be in is checked to see if it had deathtouch at that time. * If an object with deathtouch gains another instance of deathtouch, the extra instance of deathtouch won't have any particular effect. If that object deals damage to a creature, a single regeneration effect will still save it Title: Re: State of the Game Post by: Ingmar on July 26, 2010, 11:46:55 AM The TLDR version is creatures with deathtouch can just assign one point of damage to everything they block/blocks them and it will die. That makes deathtouch+trample very nice since you can just put one point on everything and all the rest on your opponent, instead of having to fully kill everything blocking you before you get to trample.
(Which is itself an annoying change from how I remember trample working long long ago in the mists of time, before deathtouch actually was a named ability.) Title: Re: State of the Game Post by: Johny Cee on July 26, 2010, 08:41:52 PM Alright. I've been sucked into ROE drafting now. Just clicked for me this weekend, and since then I've won 5 tournaments, 2-1 twice, and a disappointing 1-2. Both my 2-1s I was sure I had the win and got run down in the last match.
My ROE pool of cards for Standard is building up too quickly.... As always, hit me up if you need my spare commons/uncommons. I have piles of some from drafting over and over..... Some good stuff too, like Oust, Wall of Omens, etc. Title: Re: State of the Game Post by: Hoax on August 02, 2010, 03:29:34 PM If someone were thinking of hopping into some M11 drafting when/what/where/how should I go about that? It just came out on MTGO or is it still prerelease extra expensive drafting? Should I just go with Swiss since I'm all out of practice? Would it be fun or just weak to try a "premier draft" and be reintroduced to some serious l2p noob environment, which usually helps me pick things up faster.
Title: Re: State of the Game Post by: Ingmar on August 02, 2010, 03:39:42 PM "Real" drafts start on Wednesday. You can do drafts in the casual room starting today though - no ticket cost or prizes, just bring 3 packs and keep what you draft.
Title: Re: State of the Game Post by: Xilren's Twin on August 03, 2010, 07:28:44 PM I also see WotC has announced Thursday Night Magic Online (http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/other/07282010e) for some smaller more casual events. Smaller to no entry fees and more limited prizes, but 3 rounds tourneys might prove just what the casual doctor ordered.
Title: Re: State of the Game Post by: schild on August 04, 2010, 07:35:33 AM I should say if any of you have collections you're never gonna play again, lemme know. Not that I can really afford to buy them or anything, but if you're feeling generous, I'd kill to get into Legacy and play Magic like it once was.
That said, Richard Garfield is designing the block after Scars. Om nom nom. Edit: Oh, right. I'm going to two big tournaments soon. One is the Mad Wizards Qualifier in September here in Austin and in October - THE WEEK AFTER Scars rotates Alara out, we have the TCGPlayer 10k here (which is really 2 5ks). I will be playing Black/Green Aggro in the second 5k and - god help everyone - Type II Turbofog in the other two. Wish I were kidding. It's just the right time for that deck, I think. Mine's a bit modified off the current build as 4 Archive Traps and 4 Hedron Crabs can Go. The. Distance. Sure will miss Red Aggro and such just straight scooping when I drop a Wall of Denial though. Title: Re: State of the Game Post by: Thrawn on August 05, 2010, 05:36:08 AM Type II Turbofog in the other two. I'm not even active in Magic right now and I hate you for playing that deck. :oh_i_see: Title: Re: State of the Game Post by: Johny Cee on August 05, 2010, 08:05:55 AM M11 draft has been pretty good so far. Drafted UW evasive critters plus Ajani. Many ragequits followed.
Title: Re: State of the Game Post by: Johny Cee on August 26, 2010, 02:49:54 PM I should say if any of you have collections you're never gonna play again, lemme know. Not that I can really afford to buy them or anything, but if you're feeling generous, I'd kill to get into Legacy and play Magic like it once was. That said, Richard Garfield is designing the block after Scars. Om nom nom. Edit: Oh, right. I'm going to two big tournaments soon. One is the Mad Wizards Qualifier in September here in Austin and in October - THE WEEK AFTER Scars rotates Alara out, we have the TCGPlayer 10k here (which is really 2 5ks). I will be playing Black/Green Aggro in the second 5k and - god help everyone - Type II Turbofog in the other two. Wish I were kidding. It's just the right time for that deck, I think. Mine's a bit modified off the current build as 4 Archive Traps and 4 Hedron Crabs can Go. The. Distance. Sure will miss Red Aggro and such just straight scooping when I drop a Wall of Denial though. Standard is a pretty interesting format right now. Combo, aggro, and control are all pretty viable, with some really interesting standouts. There is a UB(g) dredge deck running around that is pretty nasty. Soul Sisters is fucking hilarious. Aggro-lifegain, using weenies that get large with lifegain and 8 copies of Soul Warden (using the Soul's Attendant functional reprint). Almost a budget deck outside of the few Elspeths some folks use. Turbo-Land variants, using Titans and land accel to power out a Valakut combo or giant critters. Jund. Burn/Sligh/Goblin variants. UW control variants. Expensive, expensive UW control variants. UB control just placed in a National. Mythic Bant/Mythic Conscription decks. Expensive. etc. Really seems to be a good time to be a Standard player, though the rotation will gut many of those decks. Title: Re: State of the Game Post by: WayAbvPar on August 26, 2010, 02:57:50 PM Let's say I haven't played this since about 2000, give or take a year. What will my cost of entry to be to get some decent play time? Will I be able to trade/sell any of my old cards? Not that I had many at all, but it might be worth installing the client to see how things are going.
Title: Re: State of the Game Post by: Ingmar on August 26, 2010, 02:58:32 PM Elspeth is about to be "cheap" too, although you'll only get a month or so of standard use out of her.
Title: Re: State of the Game Post by: Johny Cee on August 26, 2010, 03:19:12 PM Let's say I haven't played this since about 2000, give or take a year. What will my cost of entry to be to get some decent play time? Will I be able to trade/sell any of my old cards? Not that I had many at all, but it might be worth installing the client to see how things are going. Feel free to hit me up for free commons/uncommons. I have piles of the things from drafts. If you want to play the most competitive deck out there, no it isn't. Most rares/unc/commons have crashed in price, but hot mythics will go for a small fortune. Mythics that have been reprinted usually drop in price pretty hard as well. Of the above decks, take out Elspeth from the Soul Sister deck and it's almost entirely commons/uncommons with 1 rare that is in the bargain bin (Serra Ascendant). Most of the red sligh decks are pretty cheap as well. For everyone else, this site: http://magic.tcgplayer.com/ It has most of the GP, PTQ, and Nationals results as well as results from major tourneys like the Starcity tourneys. Drafting Swiss 8-mans is also pretty cost effective. Guaranteed 3 rounds, with 1 pack won per round. Title: Re: State of the Game Post by: schild on August 26, 2010, 03:22:47 PM I made soul sisters about a week ago. Have Elspeth, ran Goldmane instead.
Deck is legit. Title: Re: State of the Game Post by: Ingmar on August 26, 2010, 03:34:53 PM I'm still trying to figure out how RDW will work (or if it will work at all) in new Standard. Obviously don't know what's in Scars, but there is a whole lot of stuff rotating out of RDW lists (not all used in every version of course):
Ball Lightning Hell's Thunder Hellspark Elemental Earthquake Manabarbs Quenchable Fire Probably some other stuff I'm not remembering off the top of my head. Losing 3 out of the 4 core RDW creatures hurts, and arc runner is obviously not a replacement. Ember hauler seems reasonable at the 2 drop level though. Losing earthquake hurts a lot, too, but maybe not as much with sprouting thrinax also going away. Reason I bring this up is RDW is probably among the cheapest competitive decks you can put together right now. Title: Re: State of the Game Post by: Johny Cee on August 26, 2010, 04:38:22 PM RDW still has:
Plated Geopode hasty Goblin lightning bolt Burst Lightning Staggershock Can throw in W like Steppe Lynx and go more Boros Bushwacker. Or go to the goblin strategy with Warren Instigator. Title: Re: State of the Game Post by: Johny Cee on August 26, 2010, 04:40:56 PM I made soul sisters about a week ago. Have Elspeth, ran Goldmane instead. Deck is legit. The guy who came up with it called Ajani's Pride "the white Tarmogoyf", and he wasn't really joking. Realistically, the deck dies come rotation since it loses Soul Warden. But lots and lots of decks die come rotation Title: Re: State of the Game Post by: schild on August 26, 2010, 05:02:31 PM I assume you're talking about Conley Woods. Shame he gets bored with decks before they hit their full potential.
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