f13.net forums - S#5 - Game Day #4

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May 07, 2024, 10:49:47 AM

we're back, baby

Hazardous Hippies 1-0 over Slann the Mann. The dice were with me tonight but in the end it wasn't enough to win. I was able to mash Teleku's elves all game long but I believe none were seriously injured, though his apoc did save one from dying in the first half. I elected to receive and the first half was spent exchanging possession of the ball. Teleku almost scored but I used my wizard to knock the ball loose from a wardancer to save the score. The second half went much the same way as the first and I was almost able to score but, once again, my skink's inability to pick up the ball cost me a score and possibly the game. It was doubly hard to take since they had been pretty reliable picking it up the rest of the game. Heartbreak

Teleku managed to get the ball to a wardancer and blocked any chance I had to get a blitz on her and scored on turn 14. Overall, I didn't play too badly but the dice were in my favour and Teleku failed a lot of dodges. At least it wasn't the blowout most people seemed to predict. awesome, for real

4 matches left, though inevitably Stormbringer is done.

Next season, to save embarrassment all round, maybe we should have stormbringer do a double round robin why everyone else just does a single?

2 - nil to the Calvin and Hobbes cheerleader squad. Writeup later. A lot closer than the score indicates though.

What SirT said, great game from someone who feels less confident of their game then they should be.

Replay uploaded

Stats

As I'm on a substandard laptop at the moment, I'm not able to look, but...

How many games are we looking to have left? It would be SUPER if I could get at least 1 more game in before I go MIA - Hopefully it'd be enough for me to back into the playoffs. Ohhhhh, I see.

There are four unplayed games in this game day and there are three game days left in the regular season.

Even with 12 points though you're pretty much in.

Me and Reborne are playing tomorrow.

Sjofn is making me wait.

AGAIN! awesome, for real

Myself and Drogg having some problems connecting and we'll see what we can get done.

Quote from: Strazos on November 06, 2011, 09:42:18 AM

If you forfeit your game next week against Teleku instead of crippling his team like you did mine, I will be very angry indeed!

C'mon people, play those games!

God said, "Let there be rain."

And there was.

And I lost 0-2.

2-0 win for the Mutiny. A big difference was the rain, in that Paelos could not buy a pick-up to save his life (seriously, go look at the stats). Other unlucky things: Not murdering enough Norse and my players apparently having very sticky fingers. Oh, he knocked them on their asses a lot, but aside from knocking out one (who never returned) and injuring my loaner, the Norse stayed on the field. And to just rub it in, my werewolf BOLT VANDERHUGE picked up the ball like it weren't no thing, eventually running it in for a touchdown.

Bolt also injured a guy and got MVP, so BEWARE EVERYONE. I'm going to have a level 3 werewolf. Oh ho ho ho. Reallllly?

I think someone else also went up, ~~a lineman or something~~ Butch Deadlift, my non-sidestep berserker.

Yeah it was one of those games where I can't tell if it was just the weather, or if I made some really silly mistakes. Any tips would be appreciated from those in the know.

The only thing that made me go "hm," personally, was that first pass. But it landing in the hands of my agi 2 werewolf and staying there was just Nuffle fucking with you.

Yeah the handoff probably wasn't the best of ideas.

Oh is THAT what it was, ha. I had looked away for a moment and then noticed my warwilf had the ball, and I knew he didn't intercept it, but that was all.

Clearly *I* should watch the replay. swamp poop

Yeah i was going for a handoff to a line guy because I was too exposed on the back end. It went horrifically awry.

I can't provide tips if there's no replay in BBManager to watch!

Whoops, sorry, it's up now. swamp poop

EDIT: At least I think it is? God I hate BBM.

Hmm, I thought I submitted one.

Did you set the right day? It likes to fuck that part up, I think.

EDIT: Arghghghgh, I accidently put the wrong day myself.

EDIT TWO: There, I put it up on the right day and everything now. why so serious?

Quote from: Sjofn on November 06, 2011, 03:53:29 PM

Did you set the right day? It likes to fuck that part up, I think.

EDIT: Arghghghgh, I accidently put the wrong day myself.

We have to set days?

This shows how often I've had to submit games and/or won. Which is never! Oh ho ho ho. Reallllly?

Quote from: Paelos on November 06, 2011, 03:08:07 PM

Yeah it was one of those games where I can't tell if it was just the weather, or if I made some really silly mistakes. Any tips would be appreciated from those in the know.

Well I've watched the first 9 turns or so. There's lots of little mistakes (by both sides) but mostly you just got completely screwed by the dice on those pickups. Then again, after finally picking the ball up with your 9th roll, deciding to then try and pass it or hand it off (I couldn't tell, but either target was marked by at least one opponent to boot) was probably not the best idea. Yes, the carrier was exposed, but at least make your opponent take the block.

But more generally, the reason your carrier was so exposed was because you had spent that entire time using four Chaos Warriors to block the crap out of 4, then 3, then 2 norsemen. Setting up your CWs in a big line of Str 4 is generally a waste -- yes, you might do it on the first turn, but once you get some opponents down you need to take advantage of their higher strength (and eventually, Guard) so that a smaller number of them can tie up (and still block) a larger number of opponents. Yes, you're playing a bashy team, but you still need to think about keeping at least one CW free to move or blitz or screen or do all sorts of things that a Str 4 Block piece can do better than your beastmen.

In this case it was particularly bad because you had so many chances to disengage one or two of them and send them back towards the ball -- once you've failed two pickups in a row and Sfojn has all those players pressuring that area, you need to get some of your best players back there to deal with it. Yes they will spend a turn not hitting someone, but after that they will be hitting far more important players in far more important places. Not to mention, once you do finally pick up the ball, you want those guys in your cage ASAP.

The same thing seems to be happening in the beginning of the second half, too -- the Norse use their Quick Snap to step all their guys off the LoS, away from your four (all 4, again, in the same place, along the same line) CWs. And instead of taking advantage of that to blitz a hole and move some of those CWs past, to pressure the cage, you just step them all up one by one to their respective Norsemen, effectively marking them out of the play on behalf of the opposing coach. Instead of taking advantage of Sfojn's unwillingness to mark up your best players to take the initiative, you waste a turn of potential Chaos Warriory terror by just repositioning them back to how they were before. (You even move the fourth guy up into the line, even though he has nobody to mark!)

Edit for second half: Oh geez, you do it again with the pick-up-then-throw-it-onto-the-ground bit. Just say no to hand-offs in the rain!

I had debated stepping them back like that, because like you said, it gave the Chaos warriors a chance to wander about whereever they pleased. I was already down to nine players, though, so I decided to risk it, to make it so his first turn, he could only really punch one guy, and I'd see how things wound up after that.

I have commitment problems, I prefer to react to what people are doing than have my own stupid plan. It's why I prefer defense in Blood Bowl. :P

Well once you had set them up like that -- with no chance of blocking anything -- it certainly made sense, since you didn't have much to give up, opportunity-wise.

Quote from: Paelos on November 06, 2011, 03:08:07 PM

Yeah it was one of those games where I can't tell if it was just the weather, or if I made some really silly mistakes. Any tips would be appreciated from those in the know.

Setup:

I wouldn't put all the Warriors on the line in contact. You only need one assist to get 2D block, so blocking with a beastman is just as good. Then you can move the other two warriors where you want to put the pressure on, or give yourself two strong corners to a cage. You've also set up too wide. If you got a blitz something would have likely been surfed, which is no fun, and giving away an extra space on both sides doesn't really hurt you. It also allows you to move more solidly to one side when/if you get the ball and cage (more important against agility teams, this point).

I probably would have setup to target the right side, as that is where the WW without Block lives, the blitzer there doesn't have MB, etc.

Play:

If you are going to set all your guys up on the line then bash sideways, so you can get an extra hit in if you get a push.

Move a beastman to cover the ball in case of a failed pickup, especially in the rain.

In general: Remember what players you have where. Your block and dirty player beastmen need to be as well placed for whatever you want them to do. Don't get the dirty player caught on the front of a cage, as you want them to be movable to foul a fair range. Position the block one where they have to overcommit to mark him, so you either get an advantage there, or can blitz with him as you wish.

Pick your fights. Don't mark a WW with a beastman unless you want him to block it or it will stop something really important happening. Giving away free blocks is not going to work out in your favour in the long run. If you just want to stop him (the WW) moving somewhere then place your guy in a way that means he has to risk a dodge, or has to blitz him. Count out his movement and see where you need to be to stop him getting where you don't want him. Giving a free block is a bad stall unless it will reap immediate benefits. You were really lucky that he didn't roll a push or a hit on your beastman and instead got bad dice caused a turnover, which would have put you under even more pressure.

Then you stand the beastman up but don't move him. The WW is now concussed, so marking him is somewhat pointless. Moving the goat either to mark the blitzer or back to protect the ball more would have been safer than leaving the blitzer there free with room to run around you at the ball.

In general: Take a second and think, do I need to follow up here? Does this provide an assist I need, does the player need to be marked? Does this give me a good position? Auto following up is a bad habit.

In general: After a blitz finishes you can still move. Make sure you take advantage of this to get your player in the best spot. This is often especially key with guard players and those than are good at marking. Making sure you're in the best possible spot can make a difference.

In general: I wouldn't foul early unless you can afford to lose the player, or the guy you are fouling is really really important to them. If you're already out bashing them a player advantage is often just as well sustained by keeping more numbers on the pitch for a while.

In general: Pay attention to block order. A couple of times you could have blocked in a different order and gotten extra hits in as a result (due to pushbacks and/or side step).

You are wasting your CWs, as Ice said. You don't need two of them to be tied up by two linemen. You especially don't need THREE of them to be doing that. Every time your opponent has a cheap player of theirs tying up a key one of yours you are losing out. Blocks are great, but when you don't have a safe ball position you need to free one up and get it back down to help. You didn't do this on a number of times.

That pass was just... stupid. You hardly get your hands on it, then you try a pass, to a unskilled player marked by a block WW, in the rain? Even if that had worked what were you going to do? Dodging would risk another failed roll for not a lot, and catching the ball would have just meant that the WW got in free 2D hits, with a block advantage, to knock it out.

You should have had the assist CW one square down and blitzed the WW with the other from the side. The WW didn't have block, it didn't have SS, was closer to the wrong end, and is 4 STR not three. That would have given you position behind it and the runner, among a number of other things.

You were lucky you didn't lose your ball carrier to the frenzy, which you have to watch out for. She could (should) have actually blitzed the other beastman nearby (w/o block), then assisted on the sure hands guy, which could have hurt you even more. You needed to remember keep your guys back sometimes and not charge them all in to contact. Contact is only good if you stop the other player doing something, but in this case you just took away protection from other areas and set those guys up to get hit for free.

You took the right blitz on the WW in turn seven but then you went and rerolled when you shouldn't have. Take the push and move the WW up against your CW. This gives you another free block, saving the reroll, and this time it is with a block player!. This also gives you cover on the south side, which you risk if you reroll and get a bad set of dice, as you did.

On your final turn this half you could have marked the berserker with your CW if you used the GFIs. I would have moved the beastman to mark first, then tried the CW second, then the dodging goat third. Would have given you a stronger position there. Also remember that players can blitz free, so position players so they have to either follow up into another player of yours, or not follow up into another player of yours. You could do this by putting your marking players side by side. Doesn't make a huge difference with frenzy, but a point to remember.

If you want any more comments I'm happy to watch the second half, but I'll leave you with this for now.

So in essence, use my CW's more effectively instead of just on the line.

Good tip. I will do that. Thanks!

Validated some more games, but there are a couple that aren't uploaded on BBManager so I am not gonna validate that yet. You know who you are. Fix the issue, please.

So I got a +1AG on my second thrower. That makes it 4 +MV, 3 +ST and 2 +AG. My Blitzer got Stand Firm to go along with her +1MV and Guard with Blodge.

I'm now at 1980 TV (with one newbee lineswomen out for this match or I'd be at 2030 and 14 players). I'm tempted to fire my Niggling Injured Lineswomen with +1MV and Guard. She costs 110 TV and gets KO'ed a lot these days.

Sjofn has 500 TV worth of inducements for the next match (though she's getting 2 skill ups). We have equal amount of ST, I have the speed and guard advantage, she has the block and tackle.

Did the skillups on my two players that leveled this last game. One is a linerat that will miss the next game, but he rolled double 4's. I was SO tempted to take Foul Appearance (the one that makes you roll a 2+ to block him) but took guard instead. I've just found that to be too useful for front line troops. My other level was a gutter runner who is now level 4 with block, jump up and wrestle.

Earnings bug strikes again meaning that I no longer have enough gold to add a new Line-Elf - I won 40k after the match with Ingmar which would have given me exactly enough but now the match is validated, I see I'm 20k short so I'll be going in to the game with a merc as one of my Wardancers is sitting this one out.

There was an official post on the forums saying that the 2012 evolution of BloodBowl was coming soon. I expect that it will be too much to ask for bug fixes to the Legendary Edition and instead we'll get a new edition with no backwards compatibility but new and exciting ~~bugs~~ features to discover.

Quote from: Falconeer on November 07, 2011, 12:43:02 PM

Validated some more games, but there are a couple that aren't uploaded on BBManager so I am not gonna validate that yet. You know who you are. Fix the issue, please.

So... what was the problem with my and eldaec's game, then? Ohhhhh, I see.

I need mah moneys!

Quote from: IainC on November 07, 2011, 01:43:08 PM

Yeah it is pretty damn ridiculous that they've let the bugs that are there sit for so long.

Replaced poor dead Dirk Hardpec with PUNCH SIDEIRON, who I am sure will make valuable contributions in the "providing a warm Norse body" and "having an awesome name" departments. Meanwhile BOLT VANDERHUGE, the werewolf, has taken mighty blow, and BUTCH DEADLIFT, berserker, is ready for some PILING ON.

Quote from: HaemishM on November 07, 2011, 01:26:27 PM

Block and wrestle is an odd combo to get, especially in the first few skills. Sidestep is great with block, diving tackle is great with jump up, dauntless and strip ball and tackle are great with wrestle.

Early on I would perhaps specialize the GRs to play a role ( ball stripper with dauntless, carrier with block/sidestep ) rather than round them out too much.