Guitar thread

[Sky]

This thread is good reference. I've had the 11s on for a month and a half. I've heard people complain about the nickel strings getting dull, but I don't like my strings bright, so it should work out ok. It's funny how the brightness of the Fender amp colors my tone opinion, even though I've always favored "dead" strings. Nothing is really going to stop the high E from breaking, short of not bending like I do :) Especially after enduring over a month of it, I'm amazed they last that long. I expect it to break every time I go over a 1-1/2 step bend. On the V I tend to go for as much as I can physically push the bend and bring the bend back chromatically to the IV. That's pretty punishing on a string!

Anyway, I've got the repair guide. It's good, but that interview linked is beyond simple guitar shop setup and into a whole other level. My SG has a great setup, I wouldn't want to mess with it beyond tweaking it to accommodate 11s. Might need a new nut and a little tweak to the bridge.

[Nebu]

EVERY time I would setup my guitars/basses it was standard practice to cut a new nut.  I'm not sure it's possible to have a lasting setup without that. 

That article goes a bit beyond my comfort level and I used to do guitar work in my younger days.  Now, I'm too lazy and just let a local tech do it for me for $30.  Granted, he usually screws it up the first time.

[stray]

What I'd really like to learn is amp modding, but that's a good way to get killed if you don't know what you're doing. Heh. But that's really where they charge you up the ass.. even for a simple rebiasing.

[Nebu]

What I'd really like to learn is amp modding, but that's a good way to get killed if you don't know what you're doing. Heh. But that's really where they charge you up the ass.. even for a simple rebiasing.

I think I'm too easy to please.  When it comes to amps, here's my usual plan:

1) Find a head that provides clean power.  If I want warmth, I go tube.  Solid state for versatility.  More power usually provides the best foundation as long as the dynamic range is good. 

2) Find a well made cabinet and fill it with speakers that suit my playing style. 

3) Buy high quality effects.

4) Buy instruments with the sound foundation that you like.  If I were a serious guitar player, I'd have a strat, a tele, a les paul, an SG and an ES335. 

Effects these days can do everything you want with your amp for far less than the cost of modding.  Buy a good head and cabinet and they will take care of the rest.  A nice rack mount setup can really do wonders with a great amp and you can foot switch wave shapers and reverb/echo for changes on the fly.

NOTE: I realize that it's not practical to own this many instruments... the fundamental point is that with a good head and cabinet, you can shape your sound for minor additional expense. 

[stray]

Bass players are always easy to please 

There's certain territory that can't be replicated without a bit of modding though. All effects color and center around the preamp stage, and overdrive just boosts and modifies the signal after it's already been outputted. A power stage mod can give everything more balls, even while keeping your overall sound. Take Eddie Van Halen's "Brown" sound. The sound on "Panama", for example, is the same exact amp (a Mashall Plexi/Superlead) that Hendrix used on dozens of his songs (say, Foxy Lady), and that Page and Angus used as well. It doesn't sound anything like them though -- and it wasn't his guitar or effects. He only had one pickup in his guitar, it was very basic. And only used a Phaser pedal occasionally. Wasn't all that big on effects.

There's also just little tweaks and stuff that have nothing to do with tone, but are good to know anyhow. Whether your reverb is humming a little and you want to cancel it out, or you change to a new tube model and need to rebias.

[Raph]

If I were a serious guitar player, I'd have a strat, a tele, a les paul, an SG and an ES335. 

NOTE: I realize that it's not practical to own this many instruments...

Eep. (Counts the ten stringed instruments lined up here... though only 4 of them are guitars).

And what, nothing for slide? ;)

[stray]

I'd use a Tele for slide. Sounds like Swamp ooze.  And you get that subtle crackling, rattling sound on the bass strings.

[Sky]

If I were a serious guitar player, I'd have a strat, a tele, an es335, my sg, an lp, a gretsch, a reso, a taylor classical, a guitjo, the baby taylor....for starters...

I was like Nebs when I was playing bass. I had a strong, clean amp, solid state Kasino. Ran that into a couple 400W EV speakers. Had real nice thumb and definition, always went for a Geddy Lee tone. At first I used a couple pedals, an overdrive and a wah, but I dropped those pretty quickly and just played straight into the amp. Bass was so easy, most of it was in the fingers. Never liked the pickups on my bass, but maybe having to push the amp volume to make it louder was a good thing. With my wimpy bass amp (the peavey mark III), it sounds like thin ass. I put a guy's gibson grabber through it and it sounded much nicer.

[stray]

My first good guitar was a Tele and I wish I had never gotten rid of it. Been wanting just a cheap one for awhile, but when I get around to it, I will set it up for slide. My Jazzmaster covers both a lot of Strat and Tele territory and then some. It does things that no other guitars do, so I won't part with it. I just need some hotter pickup equipped solidbody with a bigsby (like a Gretsch or LP with bigsby), and I'd be pretty happy. That little Hamer I bought is just a good beater, but it's basically a Strat ripoff with a humbucker and mid switch. I have a Floyd Rose Ibanez that I'm too lazy to fix, but that covers another front too.

I'd drop both my steel string and classical if I had a steel string with wider spacing. Or even better, some Selmer/Django thing. That would truly be bridging the gap between classical and steel string feel.

Anyhow, if I could, I'd have a hell of lot more amps than guitars.

[Sky]

I admit I've been having the urge for at least a half-stack, Orange or Marshall. My ears thank my wallet.

[stray]

You could save a little money and get a Vox Valvetronix stack (or even pedal). The one thing they really excel at is their own Vox models (which Orange is somewhat modeled after, if you think of the Vox sound without the top boost) and their Marshall models. I've had one for years now and it's pretty nice. And not at all too "digitally". They've made it feel as analog as possible.

[Miguel]

What I'd really like to learn is amp modding, but that's a good way to get killed if you don't know what you're doing. Heh. But that's really where they charge you up the ass.. even for a simple rebiasing.

Re-biasing is exceptionally easy...all you need is a screwdriver and and voltmeter.  Tube amps almost always have plate voltage bleeder resistors, so if you turn off the amp, waiting for a minute or two, you are fine to go poking around.

I built a little 6W class A (like a Fender Champ) a while back:  if I can find some old images I'll upload them.

[stray]

Better yet, post a clip. I'd love to hear it.

[Sky]

I have a hard time saving money by buying less than what I really want. I've learned to bide my time and save up. Actually makes you savor things more, too. Though my next five years are pretty much shot until I pay the truck off Glad I got a decent bar setup to tide me over, a half stack is WAY more than I'd ever use...especially since I've learned that I love pushing tubes.

Going to have to practice with my volume knob more. Some folks make it look so effortless, it distracts the hell out of me.

Miguel, more info on your amp would be cool!

[Nebu]

I have a hard time saving money by buying less than what I really want. I've learned to bide my time and save up. Actually makes you savor things more, too.

BINGO!  This is what I've been doing since I hit 30 and I've never regretted it.  Also, if you know EXACTLY what you want, you can occasionally grab a bargain on eBay though my luck has been hit and miss. I think I need to stick to Craigslist and want ads.  Buying new is just too crazy expensive and I tend to prefer the feel/look of vintage gear.

[stray]

Well, the good thing about digital amps is that it does make the idea of having many amps an affordable option. It's not the same, but good enough. There should at least be one important tone you're looking for though, and you get a real valve amp for that.. but it's nice to be able to fuck around with other sounds when you can.

Unfortunately, the same applies to pedals. Buy some real ones for the most important effects, but settle on a multi for other shit.

Unfortunately (again), I sold my good tube amp -- an early edition Custom Shop Vibro-King I got off of eBay for $900, but was worth about $3000  . I couldn't resist selling it and making a profit.

[Nebu]

This is so ridiculous that I had to share.

[stray]

Yeah, they've been doing that for some time with a lot of "relic models". They also produce "new old stock" type of guitars that were painted with the methods of the past, and artificially faded to look like your Uncle Willy's cool Strat that he never played.

People are buying them though, funnily enough. Just like jeans, people like a worn out look. Unlike jeans, you're aren't going to find a vintage strat that isn't the same price as a house. So they've targeted that market this way instead.

[ashrik]

I done went and bought me one
Thanks for the help earlier. It's an Ibanez GSR200BK. The salesmen helped me out plenty, right up until the moment when started to push the $40 cords.


BOOM

[stray]

Grats. Used to have one like that myself (but in that dark blue that many Ibanez guitars come in).

[Sky]

To be fair to the sales guy, the cord you bought looks chintzy 

Cool bass, though!

[ashrik]

Thank you muchly.

I've decided to up my game by buying Bass Guitar for Dummies and downloading about 90 different books way above my skill level. I'm no doctor but I believe I can say with confidence that I will be a Rock God in 6 to 8 weeks.

Edit: Green text, in case the ghosts of my failed Wolverine joke lurk here.

[Raph]

No, you're only playing bass, that's about right. 

[Nebu]

I done went and bought me one

Nice choice.  Early on, I had an Ibanez and it was one of my favorite basses.  With the action set right, they have a really fast neck and a bright sound. 

Bass for dummies is also a nice book to start with.  There is a wealth of resources online (tabs, youtube, etc), so check that out as well. 

Enjoy!

[stray]

Allow me to rant about "production".. Do you have any pet peeves as far as sound goes?

I'm getting really fed up with too much space and reverb in recordings myself. I've indulged in it a bit too, but.. I don't know, I've been trying to make a mix tape lately, and perusing through tons of songs, and realizing how much I dislike recordings that sound that way. This is the extreme example, but I especially hate anything overtly "ethereal" -- especially keyboards with a lot of reverb -- you know, that sound that's popular with Trance, Enya types, or gothic metal.

Now here's where I'll find disagreement. I hate it in Classic Rock too. I hate it in really good stuff like King Crimson even. 21st Century Schizoid Man is an awesome song, but it'd be even better if it was straight up in your face. It just feels too distant to me.

The great majority of 80's recordings indulged in spaciousness too. Even thrash metal. And it kind of ruins it imo.

Yeah..anyways.. like I said: Rant.   

[Nebu]

Well, which do you hate more... that or overdubbing to the point of ridiculousness?  I love me some Queen, but after Def Leppard, it became so much the norm that you rarely ever heard what the band was actually playiing.  You know it has gotten out of hand when bands have to start hiring extra musicians just to get a decent sound in concert.

Very VERY few bands have the talent to pull off two mic live recordings these days and it makes me sad.  I really love to hear a good live album where the band just played well in a nice acoustic setting. 

[stray]

I don't mind overdubbing when the talent is there. I think some musicians -- like Freddie Mercury and Brian May -- have minds that exceed the rock format. They're not using recording as a crutch, but as a way to express their grand ideas. Then others are really very typical in their song structure -- like you can tell that the underlying song is basically the same, with or without fancy production. You can't say the same for Queen. I mentioned Death on Two Legs in another thread recently.. It's brilliant. But then, if they were just doing something more pop oriented, they never got carried away with making it sound more than it was. Another One Bites the Dust is a basic idea, and they recorded it in a basic way (same could be said for all songs like it.. they never indulged themselves).

[edit] Damn, keep on having to edit today

[MisterNoisy]

I done went and bought me one
Thanks for the help earlier. It's an Ibanez GSR200BK. The salesmen helped me out plenty, right up until the moment when started to push the $40 cords.


BOOM

That's a great little bass.  I've since given mine (same model and color even, though mine didn't have the active electronics) to a friend that was looking to start playing, but I find that I miss it on occasion.  Fortunately, he lives 3 blocks away so I still get to fuck around with it every now and then.

[Righ]

The great majority of 80's recordings indulged in spaciousness too. Even thrash metal. And it kind of ruins it imo.

You're a youngster who is used to modern sound of over-compressing at the mastering stage. The good news for you is that some free software will allow you to remove all the dynamic range and any sense of 'spaciousness'. Unfortunately for people who prefer some semblance of a sound stage in their recordings, you can't go the other way.

[stray]

I knew it. I knew you'd come in and say that.


Seriously though, I'm not really like that. There's certain sorts of spaciousness that can be intimate, I guess (Doors.. and umm.. Trip Hop in general.. just to name examples), and then there's something that makes me feel a bit removed from the music. I can't pinpoint why that it is though.. sorry.

In the extreme Enya/Goth Metal/Trance case, I not only feel removed -- I feel like the band is literally trying to pontificate to me -- from another dimension. Fuck that otherworldly shit. It's very dehumanized to me. [edit] Trying to induce a mood through "atmosphere", instead of letting a song stand on it's own to give me a mood rubs me the wrong way as well. But this could apply to a lot of things, I guess.

I like a lot of old stuff though. I'm a big Stones fan (already mentioned the Doors). Most of their stuff is right up front. Even when they were trying to be "otherworldly", they'd make a mostly in-your-face song.

If you ask me, my sensibility comes from punk rock. I don't particularly enjoy a lot of overly compressed stuff on the radio these days. I just like things to be a little balls to the wall, even if it's folk.

[stray]

You know, now that we're talking about it, you know what's interesting to me? That Robert Johnson made his recordings played with his back turned on the mic, facing the corner of a wall. This guy's sense of space is in a category all it's own. Heh. I mean, he sounds that way.. intimate, but like a man with his back turned on the world.

[Righ]

When you said otherworldly with reference to the Stones, I thought for sure you'd be going here. I do like a lot of music that is atmospheric, but I'll spare you the synth-led stuff in this thread and just give you some dreamy Manuel Gottsching guitar work instead. :P

You can do a lot with a microphone and placement. I'd take Robert Johnson or CAN standing around a single mic in the center of their studio over any ProTools sanitized shit any day.

[stray]

Ah yes, the Stones' psychedelic phase. Heh.

I don't mind synths.. if there's stuff you want to post, have at it. I just don't like shit that borders on sounding like Yanni.

[edit] Yeah that guitarist you linked to is what I'm talking about as well. I've had enough of that kind of thing.

Oh, and don't get me wrong. One of my favorite guitarists does a lot of stuff like the above too (Tom Verlaine). So I'm not trying to hate on your taste or anything.. I'm just not in the mood for that sort of sound anymore, I guess. Even when it's people I greatly admire.

Mind you though, he was a guy who went against everyone in his band once and recorded their first single by just plugging his guitar directly into the PA. The complete opposite of spacious production. Possibly in a bad way. It sounded like shit. Heh. Even funnier that he did it in the late-70's, when rock recording was moving towards extreme excess.

[Sky]

Gah, production. I've mentioned before how my ideal of production got me into trouble in recording school. To guys who learned a board in the 70s and 80s, my ideas weren't going over well. My ideal production was a slightly more detailed version of what we got out of our boombox in our practice room. Just to get the drums sounding more like live miked drums (because thumping drums are good in metal). Our sound was so down and our set so tight, we didn't really have to dick around with tweaking things or multiple takes. Mic it up and go. We cut a three song demo in a studio and it wasn't better than the rehearsal tapes we pumped out every day.

Then I got used to that raw sound and it became my preference. It's tough listening to studio recordings, even of great bands. You lose the vitality most of the time, imo. I try to buy live albums when I can. If a band can't play live, fuck 'em. Not a band. I'm not too harsh on bands for bringing in mercs to fill things out, but it'd be better if they brought them into the band rather than hide them as a 'road band'.

Anyway, it is funny to see how people's ears are trained. Stuff that sounds great to me can sound awful to a listener. That's what's nice about playing for myself these days, if people don't like it, I don't give a fuck. I'm playing what I enjoy and makes me feel good.

Synths. Meh. Rush is one of the few bands I can endure that use synths. Maybe like Deep Purple or someone. I don't like much in the way of purely electronic music, though. I also like a band that has soul and can kick out songs in a more or less traditional fashion. I'm thinking of guys like Vai, Satriani or Johnson. Real clean production, even live, and boring and soulless.

[Nebu]

If you look at my home stereo equipment, it will tell you a lot about how unprocessed I like my music.  My preamp has nothing but an input selector and a volume knob.  No bass or treble adjustments.  Well recorded music will give you the feeling that you're in the same room with the band.  Over processed music makes you feel like you're listening to an iPod. 

This remaster of "Let it Be" is a great example of what I mean.  It removes the Spector "wall-of-sound" from the equation and lets you hear the band as they were meant to be.  If you have a good home system, the staging is wonderful.