Schilling's Green Monster Games

[LC]

He is right though, FoH is in a world of its own.

It's not a world I would ever be a part of. It's not a world I would want my game associated with. It's like a furry community minus the fur.

[HaemishM]

They also have some other reputable people there like R.A. Salvatore and Todd McFarlane working for the company. 

The two bolded parts there? I don't consider them to be equal.

EDIT: Also, what LC said about FOH. That. FOH the guild and the board is a bunch of ass-felching titweasels. The amount of USEFUL feedback you'd get from a site like that will not be counterbalanced by the sheer retardation you will have to deal with on a daily or hourly basis.

[schild]

I know there was some sort of fantasy on Schilling's part to get those two on board, but they are nowhere near as popular as they used to be. Salvatore can be quite the hack from time to time. And Todd, well Todd is just out of left field. There's a million better artists out there now who would've been more appropriate for an only game and most of them aren't one-style washed out dudes making less-than-awesome action figures and still riding their one big hit. Also, Atomic Comics pretty much sucks. So there's that. But I suppose you have to live in AZ to understand and know why that is.

[naum]

…Also, Atomic Comics pretty much sucks. So there's that. But I suppose you have to live in AZ to understand and know why that is.

What you have against Atomic Comics?

Regarding McFarlane, his 15 minutes ran out long ago…

[schild]

…Also, Atomic Comics pretty much sucks. So there's that. But I suppose you have to live in AZ to understand and know why that is.

What you have against Atomic Comics?

Regarding McFarlane, his 15 minutes ran out long ago…

What's in stock.
Pricing.
The pre-order pay everything up front system.
Their horrible method for keeping track of preorders. Which is especially a pain in the ass if they lose something. Which happens a lot on obscure shit.
The people they hire are mostly wretched, ugly, elitist punks across the board.

[WayAbvPar]

Salvatore can be quite the hack from time to time.

Only when he writes.

 

[Count Nerfedalot]

I disagree. In between the name calling, cussing and sniping there's some decent conversation. It derails much too quickly but it's an interesting read when it stays on topic and the topic isn't screaming raving posts about what sucks.

He is right though, FoH is in a world of its own.

Hey! Nobody around here ever posts screaming raves about stuff that sucks! er, um, just a little froth and spit maybe.

[UnSub]

I disagree. In between the name calling, cussing and sniping there's some decent conversation. It derails much too quickly but it's an interesting read when it stays on topic and the topic isn't screaming raving posts about what sucks.

He is right though, FoH is in a world of its own.

Hey! Nobody around here ever posts screaming raves about stuff that sucks! er, um, just a little froth and spit maybe.

I loved everything from "f13 will provide more sensible discussion than FOH" right up to this point. Especially when it insulted the other big names behind 38 Studios. 

[schild]

UnSub, part of the problem is there's only 4 ways to judge 38 Studios and their product right now.

1. Their reliance on big names that aren't big anymore. Not even a little.
2. The most information we have about the game is a codename and the fact the name of the company was changed.
3. A leader that posts to a community that exists in a very specific corner of the internet.
4. Said leaders comes and defends that corner of the internet.

What do you want from us? The guy is crafting his own image. I'm not quite getting it. I need more than 'MCFARLANE AM GOD, WE HAVE A REAL WRITER AND HAY I PLAYED EQ AND BASEBALL, I'M ONE OF YOU' and some posts from Schilling on FoH to convince me they have a product worth playing, let alone a product worth watching.

Edit: Basically, I like Schilling. He seems like a nice guy. I haven't met him yet, but whatever. Nothing he's done thus far has led us to believe the game will break any new ground or do anything interesting but he's done a whole lot that says 'my dream game is for ubers.'

[Pennilenko]

Salvatore can be quite the hack from time to time.

Only when he writes.

 

 

[UnSub]

I get it Schild. I really do. Copernicus is a great wanker name for a title no-one knows anything about. But I found it funny that f13 started down the path of saying that FOH isn't going to provide any kind of reasonable input and ended up in saying how useless / hack-like the other big names involved in 38 Studios are. We hardly proved a point (which I, in making these kind of posts, helped contribute to).

I'm not saying anyone is wrong or right, just that where we started from and where we ended up amused me.

I know little about Schilling and don't care about baseball. The fact that he was well known for involvement in EQ AND is appealing to the FOH crowd makes me think Copernicus isn't going to interest me at all. I'll wait and see what it has to offer, but if it turns about to be fantasy elfland, it'll be a hard sell.

[schild]

Actually, the point was they better have one hell of a game. The "big names" attached to the project aren't as big as they thought when he signed them on (in fact, it's a pretty obvious example of schilling being out of touch with artists and writers that matter. Finally, FoH is willing to engage in masturbatory bufoonery with him before there's any real information dump, whereas f13 isn't. On that same note, f13 has a completely different stigma than FoH. I wasn't saying we're better for him, I was simply saying why FoH was bad for him. He should know better. Games that appeal to them do not a million subs make.

Also, I was hoping I'd see Blackguard lurking so he could see I told him to tighten the leash 

[Margalis]

Maybe they got McFarlane and Salvatore not because they are "big names" but because they thought they'd be good?

McFarlane is a huge baseball fan, I imagine he and Schilling were at least acquaintances previously, and in part thought it would be fun and productive to work together.

You are viewing this from a marketing angle, and clearly both McFarlane and Salvatore are being marketed, but that may not be the reason they were brought on. McFarlane providing high-level art direction doesn't sound like a bad idea to me.

[schild]

Theoretically it's not a bad idea. But the comic scene is chock full of more talented folks. Hopefully he'll bring some of that talent in. I don't know what his reputation is in that circle though. Maybe Velorath can shed some light on that.

I have to wonder about the Salvatore decision though.

[UnSub]

Theoretically it's not a bad idea. But the comic scene is chock full of more talented folks. Hopefully he'll bring some of that talent in. I don't know what his reputation is in that circle though. Maybe Velorath can shed some light on that.

His reputation in the comic scene is of a guy who used to be an artist but made better money creating an action figure empire. He's no longer a comic book guy, really.

One good thing to say about him: he typically hires pretty well, then learns from them. His scripts got a lot better after working with Alan Moore, for instance. Maybe not to 'great', but he's done very well for himself.

[Jamiko]

The biggest problem I have with him posting at FoH is that it leads me to believe he is designing a game for that crowd and I am not that crowd. If FoH likes it, I *know* I won't like it. If he is not designing a game I would like, fine he can do that. I do believe that I fit into the majority of MMO gamers quite a bit more than the FoH crowd does. Therefore, if FoH likes it, it will not be a huge success in my opinion.

[Draegan]

It's kind of silly labeling a game before one piece of information on a game is released. 

But I also hope that Curt doesn't go the way of EQness.  No thanks.

[Signe]

The only person in this thread I've ever even heard of is Curt Schilling.  And him only because a company I used to work for managed some athletes (mostly hockey and basketball) and I also used to work with Pat Croce who never ever shut up about sports, so I got in the habit of reading the sports section.  For the names, not the scores.  I still watch sports (not baseball), I just don't bother to read about them.  Even after reading this thread, I still don't know why it matters where he posts.  He has people in his company who have experience with MMOs, right?  Won't they have more of an impact on his decisions than a bunch of people from FOH?  Or anywhere?  No one ever listens to the people who play these games first time out, anyway.  It's mostly only after their game goes pear shaped that they sometimes come around. 

I looked up the other two guys and have never read anything they've done, but I did play the Icewind Dale pc games and liked the first one.  Or maybe it was the second one. 

[mutantmagnet]

The biggest problem I have with him posting at FoH is that it leads me to believe he is designing a game for that crowd and I am not that crowd. If FoH likes it, I *know* I won't like it. If he is not designing a game I would like, fine he can do that. I do believe that I fit into the majority of MMO gamers quite a bit more than the FoH crowd does. Therefore, if FoH likes it, it will not be a huge success in my opinion.

You're getting way ahead of yourself here. I've read the entirity of that thread and it's obvious Curt isn't doing as you falsely perceive.

Curt is generating hype by presenting his business savvy. He talks about the guidelines 38 works by in producing the game without ever talking about the game itself.

 A lot of people have questioned his choices of McFarlane and Salvatore and his ability to pick up gaming producers they think were critical for any good that was done with SOE games. The only thing Curt has done, that could be claimed to be as pandering to the FOH crowd, is getting those devs they liked; but it's hard to knock him for that, since they do have experience as devs, and where available and willing to move to Boston, and Curt from his remarks has met them in the past, why go for unknown quantities when known ones are available?


The only thing that can be questioned about Curt right now is how he operates as a business man and not specifically how 38S actually designs a game.

On occassion he puposefully shifts discussion to talk about game design but so far he has gone against the grain or outright challenged half the assertions FOH members have made.

[WayAbvPar]

Just to throw in a positive comment for a change-

I like that Schilling is a fan/player turned executive. I remember reading articles about he and Doug Glanville grabassing around Butcherblock, and was excited that someone well known was just a regular gamer.  I HOPE that he can give feedback about what is fun and what sucks, and have a positive outcome on the game. It will certainly be worth keeping an eye on. However, as schild points out- if they are targeting FoH types as their core demographic, I am 90% sure I want nothing to do with it. My free time is going to be taking a significant hit come Thanksgiving or so, and I will have even less tolerance for poopsock mechanics.

[Merusk]

Are the majority of FOH still poopsockers, or is it just a vocal minority?  It certainly seemed to only be a very vocal minority with several sychophants the last time I perused their forums for a length of time.   ElGallo.. you post there a lot, (or did..)  I summon you! Clarify plox.

Around here there's a great deal of piling-on against anyone who raids or enjoys DIKU PvE for what is is, so I find you all just as biased in an entirely different direction.  Yes, things can take too much time if you fall in with an ULTRAHARDCORE group who declares "You MUST play xyz hours with abc% of attendence!" but there's plenty of games (not just WoW) where you can find casual groups to dick around with the endgame PvE stuff at your leisure.

That said, yes, it shouldn't take as much time as it does to experience all the endgame.  If you say your game is deisgned for people with 15 hours a week to play it, that playtime should encompass ALL activities associated with the endgame.  Not just the actual killing thing part, but the farming and pre-encounter orginization (group setup, travel, etc. Meta things like "omg xiro is late" or folks shitty at orginizing obviously add to this.) should be part of that timeframe as well.   Right now they AREN'T.  Yeah, you can raid all the way to Illidian in WoW on 15 hours a week easily.. but you'll have to find a group that'll let you do it with broken shit and no consumables. Good luck there.

[Simond]

Are the majority of FOH still poopsockers, or is it just a vocal minority?  It certainly seemed to only be a very vocal minority with several sychophants the last time I perused their forums for a length of time.   ElGallo.. you post there a lot, (or did..)  I summon you! Clarify plox.

99.9% of the people on the FoH boards aren't in FoH...besides, all the poopsockers moved to Elitist Jerks or the various other games' analogue sites.

[Draegan]

99.9% of the people on the FoH boards aren't in FoH...besides, all the poopsockers moved to Elitist Jerks or the various other games' analogue sites.

This is true.

FOH is basically a forum now for all MMOs with a very unfocused discussion topic.  Everyone plays MMOs there but with varying play times, from 15 hours a week (expoopsockers now grown up) to 60 hours a week.  It's just full of idiots most of the time.

However EJ is full of hardcore players that do nothing but play excel and WOW.

[HaemishM]

I get it Schild. I really do. Copernicus is a great wanker name for a title no-one knows anything about. But I found it funny that f13 started down the path of saying that FOH isn't going to provide any kind of reasonable input and ended up in saying how useless / hack-like the other big names involved in 38 Studios are. We hardly proved a point (which I, in making these kind of posts, helped contribute to).

In my defense, I've always thought McFarlane was a hack, I only read Salvatore recently and was horrified, and Curt Schilling really is the only reason I'm in the least bit interested in the game.

[WindupAtheist]

The boss is someone who liked old-timey EQ and they're doing PR at FoH.  It's Vanguard 2.0 until proven otherwise.

[Draegan]

The boss is someone who liked old-timey EQ and they're doing PR at FoH.  It's Vanguard 2.0 until proven otherwise.

Trolling?

[Mrbloodworth]

The boss is someone who liked old-timey EQ and they're doing PR at FoH.  It's Vanguard 2.0 until proven otherwise.

Trolling?

More like stating logic. I was thinking the same thing, mostly, because we know nothing of the games real design, we just know he wants FoH to play it, bad.

[Draegan]

The boss is someone who liked old-timey EQ and they're doing PR at FoH.  It's Vanguard 2.0 until proven otherwise.

Trolling?

More like stating logic. I was thinking the same thing, mostly, because we know nothing of the games real design, we just know he wants FoH to play it, bad.

Well see that's where you're wrong.  He doesn't want FOH to play it bad, he's just talking about the game with a community of MMO people.  He's actually not even talking about his game at all, he's just talking about MMO features and designs on a very casual level.

You can't just say because Curt posts about his MMO on FOH so therefore it's VG2.0, because that's just stupid.  It's the same thing as saying Obama is a crazy black man because he went to Trinity Church.

[Mrbloodworth]

The boss is someone who liked old-timey EQ and they're doing PR at FoH.  It's Vanguard 2.0 until proven otherwise.

Trolling?

More like stating logic. I was thinking the same thing, mostly, because we know nothing of the games real design, we just know he wants FoH to play it, bad.

Well see that's where you're wrong.  He doesn't want FOH to play it bad, he's just talking about the game with a community of MMO people.  He's actually not even talking about his game at all, he's just talking about MMO features and designs on a very casual level.

You can't just say because Curt posts about his MMO on FOH so therefore it's VG2.0, because that's just stupid.  It's the same thing as saying Obama is a crazy black man because he went to Trinity Church.

There was an important part here.

"until proven otherwise."

[schild]

You can't just say because Curt posts about his MMO on FOH so therefore it's VG2.0, because that's just stupid.  It's the same thing as saying Obama is a crazy black man because he went to Trinity Church.

No, it isn't.

[Lum]

I like Curt Schilling because he brought Advanced Squad Leader back from the dead! 

[Draegan]

You can't just say because Curt posts about his MMO on FOH so therefore it's VG2.0, because that's just stupid.  It's the same thing as saying Obama is a crazy black man because he went to Trinity Church.

No, it isn't.

I tend to forget everyone here is incredibly cynical in a comedic tragedy sort of way.

[Bunk]

Is it wrong of me to admit that I actually liked much of McFarlane's work? Maybe it's the home Country fanboism.

[Mrbloodworth]

I am not a PVP fan, but PVP represents a passionate hard core group of players so we'll not only have it but it will be a thoroughly fleshed out and meaningful system. Not to mention fun as hell (or as fun as ganking other people can be!)

I just found this gem.

I wonder if he knows that "ganking", and game design go hand in hand. PvP is not about ganking to a LOT of people.

Anyway, with a comment like that, i can basically write this game off now. Then again, that could have been an attempt at a joke, i am never sure about such things on the internets.

[Simond]

The boss is someone who liked old-timey EQ and they're doing PR at FoH.  It's Vanguard 2.0 until proven otherwise.

Or, you know, the other MMO made by people who liked (parts of) old-timey EQ and did PR @ FoH.