Guitar thread

[Sky]

Hmm. Just kept stalling every .3MB, so I kept stopping and restarting the download and eventually got it all.

Like the guitar parts and the acoustic piano patch parts. Not a fan of the synth or what sounds like an accordian. If you played the piano part in real-time, you've got monster chops and my fiancee is jealous :)

[Raph]

That's a "trombone section" and a "trumpet." I have a few choices on the trombone section -- so maybe I will try some others. I did want that smooth sort of sound. They're orchestral patches, though, not jazz patches, which is part of why they sounds TOO smooth.

Yes, I did play the piano live in realtime (I played all the parts in realtime actually, except the now-extinct drums). I do not, however, have monster chops. :) You'll notice it's a one-handed piano part -- it just happens to be a scale I know REALLY well (blues scale in F, overlaid on top of a C13 - G13 vamp on the guitar).

[Miguel]

Here's a demo I put together of various sound libraries doing a Dizzy Gillespie change:

Dizzy Demo.mp3

So there are no real players here:  the drum line is the Garritan Jazz brush kit, the upright bass is from their Jazz package, and the piano is a Steinway Grand and the xylophone is from there Personal Orchestra package.  The solo lines were generated by Band-In-A-Box and exported as MIDI to Cakewalk Sonar.

Note that this is all MIDI, but if you listen carefully, you'll hear that all the snare drops and ride cymbals have been 'un-quantized' (or moved slightly off beat), and have had their velocities changed to indicate emphasis.  The same was applied to root-less chords for the piano part.  This makes all the difference between tricking a listener into think it's a real player playing a real instrument.  It takes time, but it's well worth it.

I bet some of the people who read this board can spot the hints that this is a MIDI generated song, but I have fooled countless listeners with it.

[Phildo]

For you guys still recording instruments and vocals with dynamic microphones, here's a decent, affordable condenser solution:

[Raph]

Here's a demo I put together of various sound libraries doing a Dizzy Gillespie change:

Dizzy Demo.mp3

all the snare drops and ride cymbals have been 'un-quantized' (or moved slightly off beat)

Back when I first learned MIDI (uh, 1993?) we called that "humanized." :)

[Nebu]

For you guys still recording instruments and vocals with dynamic microphones, here's a decent, affordable condenser solution:

I'm still in love with my sm57 and sm58.  How does this compare?

[Sky]

Yeah, I've looked at a few condensers but I like my dynamic for vocals. I like the color the sm58 adds, it's not like I have some great singing voice. The more growl the better...

[Phildo]

Oh, I've never used it.  Just did a search for cheap condensers and Blue is a fantastic manufacturer.  It also comes as a USB version.

Micing is all about finding a tone you like, of course.  Per what sky says, use the mic that works the way you like it.  A condenser should give you a much clearer and natural recording, and you can add flavor to it in the mixing stage later on.  Or you can use the mic that gives you that dirty tone you're looking for right off the bat.

For myself, I prefer the idea of a totally clean and dry recording so that the mixing possibilities are bigger.  You should be able to reproduce just about anything with the right software.

[Sky]

See, I got my recording chops doing live rehearsal recordings with a boom-box. I've said before that most of the guys in studio engineering hated my guts, I have an odd ear for mixing. All I care about is a decent performance and a nice raw sound, with zero processing or production. If my guitar sounds like shit, I need to fix the guitar sound, not clean up the recording later.

I'm not slamming more produced work, it's fine for others. I just like it very garagey, because that's how I was 'raised'.

My main challenge is layering all my parts on and keeping things synced up, which is why I've considered a drum machine for a scratch track. Like doing '19 yrs old', there's a guitar intro but the bass line is a much better track to do first. But I can't time the bass intro without doing the guitar intro first. I guess I need to throw down the guitar intro, then key the bass line off that, then throw down the rest of the guitar line and maybe vocals at that point, too (to keep me honest). Recording is a pain in the ass imo :) I miss just hitting record and then playing with the band until the tape stopped.

[Phildo]

Having a scratch drum track can definitely be a huge help.  Doesn't even need to be that good as long as it keeps the time accurately, and it's more interesting to play with than a metronome.

[stray]

So one of my neighbors got one of these..

http://www.gibson.com/RobotGuitar/


Pretty cool... It's gimmicky, and something I would never need, but it's a cool gimmick and a Les Paul besides.

Only thing that sucks is that, while it covers just about most of the tunings people use, it doesn't (and I wouldn't expect it to) cover my wacky G minor tuning.... and too much trouble to manually use the tuning pegs (it's complicated).

[Sky]

Eh, I am usually in A440 on my SG all the time because I don't want to beat it up with the slide. The only song I'd want to retune for would be the Rain Song. Otoh, it would be nice to have an LED showing when a string went out of tune so you could see it before you play a bad chord. Of course, the audience would see it, too, and if you were playing with your eyes closed that could be funny...

For the price, I'd buy two guitars and keep them in the two tunings I use :)

[Nebu]

Hell, for the price of that guitar you could buy one nice guitar and hire a full time roadie!

[stray]

Well, he got it for something like 2 grand... So I don't blame him for picking it up. You're going to pay something near that for a new LP anyways.

Personally though, I'm with you. I'd easily take two gits over one gimmicky one. I don't really like to play slide in the same neck/bridge setup as I would in standard tuning anyways (would rather have the strings raised higher in a seperate guitar, if I could).


[edit] Uh, for some reason, it's very light too.. and it's not the Studio LP. It's a regular LP. I really liked the feel of it. Most of the time, they weigh like bricks to me. This felt more like an SG. I'm not sure what the difference was... didn't seem like it using Ash or anything.

[MisterNoisy]

Uh, for some reason, it's very light too.. and it's not the Studio LP. It's a regular LP. I really liked the feel of it. Most of the time, they weigh like bricks to me. This felt more like an SG. I'm not sure what the difference was... didn't seem like it using Ash or anything.

The body's probably got some areas hollowed out for the electronics and may be chambered like some of the other LPs on top of that.

[Sky]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wsePsTEgiqU

Chet Atkins playing Vincent 

[penfold]

So one of my neighbors got one of these..

http://www.gibson.com/RobotGuitar/


Pretty cool... It's gimmicky, and something I would never need, but it's a cool gimmick and a Les Paul besides.

Only thing that sucks is that, while it covers just about most of the tunings people use, it doesn't (and I wouldn't expect it to) cover my wacky G minor tuning.... and too much trouble to manually use the tuning pegs (it's complicated).

They are great. Iirc the demonstration video correctly, you can manually tune it your G minor tuning, hit a button and have as one of the custom presets. You can also manually tune one string, and then the rest will tune themselves to it.

[Sky]

Woohoo, broke my cherry last night. Went to the local open mic and one of the bassist from our society was there. Despite a shitty lineup of drummers, at the last minute an amazing blues drummer came in with one of the best guitarists in the area. Nabbed a harp player and basically took over the place for an hour and a half. Good thing I had been putting in longer practice sessions with the new heavier string setup I've been using!

I opened with a minor key instrumental off Jr Well's first album, then I did Buddy Guy's version of She's 19 Years Old. Then the bassist sang what was supposed to be a slower blues but the drummer and I "misunderstood" and played it as a funk blues, which the bassist really enjoyed. Then I reprised the 19 Yrs Old riff (a very common blues) so a drunk guy could sing something incoherent. Then the good guitarist got up and did three or four tunes, I lost track after a while. One guy started to record our back and forth soloing, it was cool.

Met a couple decent musicians, got a line on a blues practice room weekly, got to jam with my favorite local guy, got the place jumping, guys yelling and girls dancing, and the owner told me I was to come back every week to play :) Feels really good to have that out of the way, but I'm glad I waited until I had some acceptable chops so I could make a decent first impression and not totally embarrass myself.

[Jimbo]

Hey my musical inclined son is wanting to try the bass.  He plays alto sax, is doing great in the jazz band @ school, plus is in another sax band from his private teacher, and can figure out a lot of things by ear.  He will take his keyboard, my old guitar, and his sax and figure out stuff from youtube or other music he has heard and right stuff up on all three.  He is more curious about it, so I've been looking in the used sections.  I don't know crap about bass guitars and what to look for, beside peevey and fender...

[stray]

You can't really go wrong with Fender. Even the Mexican ones. Precision or Jazz. There aren't that many differences between the two other than that the J is a little more flexible in sound, has a more narrow neck... it's got an offset waist too, so it's a little easier to play while sitting down. The P Bass is thee good ole standby though. No frills, straightforward, still looks cool. Not overwhelming, easy to learn on.

[Grimwell]

On the topic of kids and guitars... can anyone suggest a very good small form factor acoustic that isn't one billion dollars? One of my daughters really wants to take a stab at playing, and I will not buy anything sold at a toy retailer to get her started, but won't spend a lot of money either, until I know she's serious. She's only 8 to make that point more clear.

My guitar is too big for her to handle, and not very good in itself anyway.

[stray]

Daisy Rock (a brand with a lot of femme stylings) makes these short scale guitars.. The "Wildwood" model.

Wildwood


Musician's Friend has them for $169. That shouldn't be too expensive, right? I mean... You're lucky to get anything decent that is cheaper than that (and yes, these are decent.. they're using typical guitar woods.. not some easily warpable shit that toys would have).

[MisterNoisy]

Hey my musical inclined son is wanting to try the bass.  He plays alto sax, is doing great in the jazz band @ school, plus is in another sax band from his private teacher, and can figure out a lot of things by ear.  He will take his keyboard, my old guitar, and his sax and figure out stuff from youtube or other music he has heard and right stuff up on all three.  He is more curious about it, so I've been looking in the used sections.  I don't know crap about bass guitars and what to look for, beside peevey and fender...

Fender/Squier Jazz bass or Ibanez SR/GSR-series.  Both have nice thin necks and are super easy to play.  If we're talking about a very young son, the GSRM-20 is a short scale (28.6").

On a related note, I've finally found a fairly regular group of guys to jam with and it's done worlds for my playing.   

[Jimbo]

Hey my musical inclined son is wanting to try the bass.  He plays alto sax, is doing great in the jazz band @ school, plus is in another sax band from his private teacher, and can figure out a lot of things by ear.  He will take his keyboard, my old guitar, and his sax and figure out stuff from youtube or other music he has heard and right stuff up on all three.  He is more curious about it, so I've been looking in the used sections.  I don't know crap about bass guitars and what to look for, beside peevey and fender...

Fender/Squier Jazz bass or Ibanez SR/GSR-series.  Both have nice thin necks and are super easy to play.  If we're talking about a very young son, the GSRM-20 is a short scale (28.6").

On a related note, I've finally found a fairly regular group of guys to jam with and it's done worlds for my playing.   

Thanks, but my "little guy" is now 5' 9" & 150lbs, so he is into the adult sized stuff (and he isn't even 13 yet...dang it need to buy a chicken ranch to feed him).  I forgot about Ibanez, are the hopes of getting a L-head Steinberger are pretty slim.  Wow! Ned Steinberger is making some radical electric traditional insturments!  How are the Gibson Steinberger L-head basses now?

[MisterNoisy]

Well shit.  I already gave away my starter bass (a GSR-200) to a friend that expressed interest in learning to play.

I'd really recommend the Iby GSR-200, if only because it's fairly cheap and a nice-playing instrument that really just needs better electronics (thought it's totally serviceable out of the box).  They're an even better bargain used if you can find them in good condition - the thin neck and narrow string spacing made things a bit easier for me at the outset. 

One thing that buying cheap helped me with is a complete lack of fear when it comes to learning how to set up/maintain and repair or modify these things.  Fucking around with the truss rod and other setup shit, fretless conversions, tearing the guts out/installing new pickups/alternate switching configs and the like are much less intimidating on a cheap CNC-built instrument than a $2K Gibby. 

I know that guitar snobs swear by their MIA Fenders and high-end Gibsons but I love cheap, good-playing gear that I can monkey around with without feeling guilty or like I'm destroying something.

[ashrik]

Oh awesome, I was going to start a Guitar thread to ask some questions but it seems I was beaten to the punch 33 pages ago.

I want to try and learn the Bass guitar. This is all from scratch with no experience on bass, and next to none on a regular. I saw an advertisement for an acoustic electric bass guitar which immediately piqued my interest as I don't have an amp or any other equipment and don't want to sink too much money into it before I know more.

Are acoustic/electric guitars generally worth the purchase? I only want to spend 100-200 on it since it's just a starter. Does anyone have any experience with them in this price range- or maybe even a suggestion on a particularly good model to get?

[Grimwell]

There is nothing wrong with going acoustic to learn in theory, but in practice they have limitations. Like you can't plug them into a pedal or two to tinker with the sound, unless you mic it up. I'd love me a nice acoustic bass someday, but I'm buying a pink $200 guitar linked above in a month or so and have no budget for myself quite yet.

My most recent accomplishment was buying a guitar stand. I lost the last one in a move a few years ago. Go me.

[stray]

I've always been meaning to get an acoustic bass guitar, but never have. Great sound -- but oddly, I've never heard anyone capture it as badass as that dude from the Violent Femmes.

[Nebu]

Been playing bass for 30 years and I don't see a reason to own one beyond playing on MTV unplugged.  Since we all know that MTV no longer plays music, there no longer exists a reason. 

Buy an electric bass (Ibanez, Fender Precision, Schecter, or Yamaha are decent for the cash).  With new strings you'll have plenty of resonance.  If you want more volume, this is a great time of year to buy a REALLY cheap used amp at the local pawn shop. 

[stray]

Been playing bass for 30 years and I don't see a reason to own one beyond playing on MTV unplugged.  Since we all know that MTV no longer plays music, there no longer exists a reason. 

That's what I was kinda trying to say. A lot of bands are just using it in a way that doesn't differentiate from an electric.

Like I said though, the Femmes guy was different.

[Sky]

After all the years I've been talking about playing out, I figured it might garner at least one comment when I actually did. 

Acoustic bass...don't bother. Almost a novelty item (unless you mean a double bass, which is a whole 'nother thing and splendid). I've played a couple but have had no urge to own one in over twenty years of playing. Get an electric and practice amp.

[Nebu]

After all the years I've been talking about playing out, I figured it might garner at least one comment when I actually did. 

I'm sorry.  I meant to comment, but the acoustic bass stuff distracted me.

I'm glad to hear that you're getting out there and have to confess that I'm jealous.  I really wish that I could find work as a 40-something bass player, but fear that I'm relegated to wedding bands at this point.  You'll have to update us on the progress of next week.  I want to know what was being played and what you think of the younger musicians these days.

[ashrik]

acoustic bass stuff

So by what everyone has said about the acoustic bass (MTV unplugged, etc), I'll guess the same applies to an acoustic-electric bass as well?

I was looking at something along the lines of this fairly cheap Dean bass I guess. It wouldn't give me the best of both worlds, by being to play effectively with or without an amp? I'm new to this whole thing and just want to make sure I don't mess up before I even begin.

[ashrik]

Oh, and big big congratulations Sky. Didn't mean to steal your thunder with my noobishness

[Nebu]

I was looking at something along the lines of this fairly cheap Dean bass I guess. It wouldn't give me the best of both worlds, by being to play effectively with or without an amp? I'm new to this whole thing and just want to make sure I don't mess up before I even begin.

You'll never use it beyond practice.  If that's ok and you're excited to play it, I'd say go for it.  It's going to be harder to play and less versatile than an electric bass, so know that going in. 

I bought one of these on eBay for $150.  It's fun to play, but I'm going to get rid of it.  The neck is too wide for my tastes and I find that it's not giving me the hollow body tones I was really wanting. 

I would recommend either a Fender Jazz, Fender Precision, an Ibanez, or a Yamaha.  When you get more cash, you should be able to buy a cheap practice amp for next to nothing.