Return of the Book Thread

[Johny Cee]

Moorcock did some great shit,  but he's spent the last 30+ years milking Elric and the Eternal Champion mystique.

That's perhaps a touch unfair. He primarily used Elric as a way to finance his other, less popular writing or more often the magazines he ran such as New Worlds. Can't say I blame him. Publishers and readers are always demanding more Elric stories, while brilliant books such as "Gloriana, or The Unfulfill'd Queen" or "Mother London" have won both critical praise and awards but never attracted the same level of sales.

You've got a great point.  Reading something on the genre book industry (probably Andrew Wheeler, former SFBC editor), even many of the big name genre guys find almost no audience for new stuff,  but will sell wheelbarrel loads of sequels to their popular series.  Donaldson, for instance, after the success of the Covenant books so poor sales for his new series despite readers gobbling up the latest Covenant book.

Another great example is Tor and Glen Cook:  They cut loose the rights to all of his stuff except the Black Company,  which they're pounding out omnibuses of.  The good news?

Nightshade got the rights to the rest,  and have been issuing neato collections of his standalones and Dread Empire books.

As with many things,  the problem is with consumers.  They'll bitch about the quality of the latest Jordan "Wheel of Time" or Donaldson "Covenant" book,  but ignore the author's latest work.

I'd go looking for the Elric omnibus that came out a few years ago on ebay or amazon (under the used section).  That would give you the "core" Elric mythology in a better format.  Everything after is pretty variable in quality (example:  The Dreamthief's Daughter [2000ish?] was excellent,  Skrayling Tree was shit and I couldn't finish it, and The White Wolf's Son was alright.)

Agreed. None of those recent books are in the new omnibus editions in any case. I would typically recommend used copies of the last omnibus editions too, but it depends what you have access to or whether you feel the need to have the stories that were excluded. If you've got a local used bookstore or charity shop that sells books, frequent yard sales, go to SF conventions or keep your eyes peeled for people auctioning off multiple books online, you can probably score all the 70s DAW mass market paperbacks for much less. Probably not as cheaply as I did, but nothing costs 1980s money any more. :)

Bah.  He goes and rubs it in!  I've managed to pick off some nice '70's era Moorcock, Zelazny and Leiber stuff,  though a little worse for wear.  It kills me some times that Leiber and Zelazny (except for the Amber omnibus) haven't gotten a good re-release.

Definitely a long-run project for me is to build myself a good library of genre works.  Made an effort to pick up alot of stuff in hardcover on release,  and browse the used and overstock stores to fill out releases.

[Triforcer]

http://www.georgerrmartin.com/if-update.html

This message has been up now for over a year.  I hope we see the book sometime during Obama's second term. 

[Ard]

Bah.  He goes and rubs it in!  I've managed to pick off some nice '70's era Moorcock, Zelazny and Leiber stuff,  though a little worse for wear.  It kills me some times that Leiber and Zelazny (except for the Amber omnibus) haven't gotten a good re-release.

Actually, a lot of Zelazny's non-Amber stuff got put into multiple omnibuses like 8 or 9 years ago.  I think I own 2 or 3 of them.  I can't find  any of them on Amazon though (without digging past the first page of hits because I'm lazy), other than this, which I think was a single story:

http://www.amazon.com/Dream-Master-Nebula-Award-Winning-Novel/dp/0743413016/ref=sr_1_12?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1231377768&sr=8-12

They all had the same cover format though, weird arcane picture with a black bar at the top with the collection name.  I suspect the bigger issue is that, unlike Lord of Light, which was re-released in the same time period, it didn't sell that well.

[lamaros]

http://www.georgerrmartin.com/if-update.html

This message has been up now for over a year.  I hope we see the book sometime during Obama's second term. 

Any bookies running odds on him doing a Robert Jordan?

[DraconianOne]

I've just finished reading "Night of the Crabs" by Guy N. Smith.  It is quite possibly one of the worst novels I have ever read in my life.  It's absolutely hysterical.  The story is basically about a group of giant, man-eating crabs that invade the Welsh coast one summer. It was written in 1976 but I find it hard to believe that it was written without being entirely tongue in cheek. 

Example of dialogue:

"What a beautiful night," Pat remarked... "if only we didn't have to worry about giant crabs."

I am astounded to find that Guy N. Smith has actually written loads of books - including another 5 Crab books.  They've even been spoofed by Matthew Holness in his Garth Marenghi persona.  Which is a shame because it was so bad that I was tempted to see if the film rights were available.  It would be a fantastic spoof film.



(Disclaimer: I only read this because a friend found it for 30p in a charity bookshop and thought it would be amusing. It was lying around for a couple of years and I finally got around to reading it.  Glad I did - haven't laughed that hard for ages.)

[Reg]

Hmm. I just finished fighting one of the those guys in Fallout3. The trick is to shoot them right in the face.

[Draegan]

Finally finished Reaper's Gale. That book was tough to slog through. Someone else in this thread said that Erickson needs an editor and I couldn't agree more. Sad thing is, the last 5th of the book was interesting and things moved at a better pace and it was enough so that I'm somewhat interested in reading the next in the series. Still, pages and pages and pages of nothing does not make an interesting read.

I finished this book on Tuesday.  You're correct it took me quite a while to get through the first 500 or so pages but I finished the last 200 fast.  Starting on Toll of the Hounds now.

[rask]

You've got a great point.  Reading something on the genre book industry (probably Andrew Wheeler, former SFBC editor), even many of the big name genre guys find almost no audience for new stuff,  but will sell wheelbarrel loads of sequels to their popular series.  Donaldson, for instance, after the success of the Covenant books so poor sales for his new series despite readers gobbling up the latest Covenant book.

God I loved the GAP series.

[sidereal]

Hmm. I just finished fighting one of the those guys in Fallout3. The trick is to shoot them right in the face.

I find that's usually the best way to kill anything

[Johny Cee]

Finally finished Reaper's Gale. That book was tough to slog through. Someone else in this thread said that Erickson needs an editor and I couldn't agree more. Sad thing is, the last 5th of the book was interesting and things moved at a better pace and it was enough so that I'm somewhat interested in reading the next in the series. Still, pages and pages and pages of nothing does not make an interesting read.

I finished this book on Tuesday.  You're correct it took me quite a while to get through the first 500 or so pages but I finished the last 200 fast.  Starting on Toll of the Hounds now.

I'd give yourself a break.  Toll the Hounds plays out exactly the same,  except I found the first 500 pages to be even worse than Reaper's Gale.  Great payoff,  and the last couple hundred pages are wonderful, but....

That first 500 pages, with a good editor, could have been cut down and focused to literally about 100 pages of setup.

[Lt.Dan]

I think Eriksen is suffering from fantasy mega series write meglomania.  The more books they write the more padding they put in.  Happens to em all - Feist, Eddings, Jordan, Goodkind (or any other mega series writer).  They start off with an interesting spin on typical fantasy writing tropes and you're loving the first two or three books.  Then all of sudden you're reading and thinking "WTF, nothing has happened for 100 pages."  That's when it's time to abandon ship and move on.  Life's too short to read bad fantasy or sci-fi novels. 

[FatuousTwat]

You've got a great point.  Reading something on the genre book industry (probably Andrew Wheeler, former SFBC editor), even many of the big name genre guys find almost no audience for new stuff,  but will sell wheelbarrel loads of sequels to their popular series.  Donaldson, for instance, after the success of the Covenant books so poor sales for his new series despite readers gobbling up the latest Covenant book.

God I loved the GAP series.

Same here. I wasn't too impressed with Mordant's Need though.

[pants]

I think Eriksen is suffering from fantasy mega series write meglomania.  The more books they write the more padding they put in.  Happens to em all - Feist, Eddings, Jordan, Goodkind (or any other mega series writer).  They start off with an interesting spin on typical fantasy writing tropes and you're loving the first two or three books.  Then all of sudden you're reading and thinking "WTF, nothing has happened for 100 pages."  That's when it's time to abandon ship and move on.  Life's too short to read bad fantasy or sci-fi novels. 

Yeah, I think you're right.  And I'm worried George Martin is falling into that trap too...

[Johny Cee]

I think Eriksen is suffering from fantasy mega series write meglomania.  The more books they write the more padding they put in.  Happens to em all - Feist, Eddings, Jordan, Goodkind (or any other mega series writer).  They start off with an interesting spin on typical fantasy writing tropes and you're loving the first two or three books.  Then all of sudden you're reading and thinking "WTF, nothing has happened for 100 pages."  That's when it's time to abandon ship and move on.  Life's too short to read bad fantasy or sci-fi novels. 

Meh.  We had this discussion a couple pages ago.  Short answer:  Cook, Butcher, Brust, Zelazny.  Even Harry Potter and the Dark Tower maintained a decent level of quality into the later books,  though they weren't as good as the early books.


The problem isn't series bloat.  Series bloat generally happens when the author realizes he's making bags of money, so needs to hold off the main story arc to milk it for everything it's worth.

This is more Erickson has made a big jump in style.  His characters are self-absorbed, whiny, unsympathetic and not interesting;  they're stuck spouting pseudo-philosophy.  The narrative also tends to wander a bit, and lose itself in fairly uninteresting side avenues that serve to pad out the books.

The plot and story is still interesting, and his finales are top notch.  The books could just benefit from an aggressive editor to weed out dead ends and focus the first couple of acts.

[sidereal]

This is more Erickson has made a big jump in style.  His characters are self-absorbed, whiny, unsympathetic and not interesting;  they're stuck spouting pseudo-philosophy.  The narrative also tends to wander a bit, and lose itself in fairly uninteresting side avenues that serve to pad out the books.

The plot and story is still interesting, and his finales are top notch.  The books could just benefit from an aggressive editor to weed out dead ends and focus the first couple of acts.

As someone who's still working through the first half dozen Erikson books, I can confidently say that this isn't a change.  All of them since Gardens of the Moon are like this.  It's just how he writes.  I think the difference is that in the first 4 or so books, everything is exciting and new so the 50 page periods of nothing (Iskaral Pust, anyone?) are just idle time to let you absorb it.  After the 40th time you've read about the Thelomen Toblakai it doesn't need to be absorbed anymore and you want him to get on with it.  Also, the swagger of characters like Quick Ben and Kalam is cool when they just seem like nobodies but are actually badass.  But once it's well established that they're badass, it's just grating.

[rask]

You've got a great point.  Reading something on the genre book industry (probably Andrew Wheeler, former SFBC editor), even many of the big name genre guys find almost no audience for new stuff,  but will sell wheelbarrel loads of sequels to their popular series.  Donaldson, for instance, after the success of the Covenant books so poor sales for his new series despite readers gobbling up the latest Covenant book.

God I loved the GAP series.

Same here. I wasn't too impressed with Mordant's Need though.

haven't picked up that one yet. Reading about it I'm not so sure i will.

Finally read McCarthy's The Road. Got it for xmas. I was looking forward to it over two years ago, but it always seemed to slip out of my mind. I'd see it and go, damn...gotta read that, and then promptly forget about it. Anyway, I loved it, especially the style, and just the pure horrific nature of it. Hit me pretty hard when my 2 year old son would not let me read it for more than 10 minutes at a time. The Postman was mentioned a page back, which made me think of it. Both excellent books. Hopefully the film adaptation of the Road isn't as horrible as Costner's bastardization.

[tar]

I wasn't too impressed with Mordant's Need though.

haven't picked up that one yet. Reading about it I'm not so sure i will.

I find that Mordant's Need is almost criminally underrated. If you've liked Donaldson's other works then you should at least give it a try. Hey, it's a complete story in only 2 books, which for a fantasy series makes a welcome break :) It's not like it requires a Jordan-esque level of commitment to get through the entire thing...

It's got some fantastic characters, Havelock and Lebbick being the ones that spring to mind first.


It's well worth the price of admission IMO.

[Ard]

I think Eriksen is suffering from fantasy mega series write meglomania.  The more books they write the more padding they put in.  Happens to em all - Feist, Eddings, Jordan, Goodkind (or any other mega series writer).  They start off with an interesting spin on typical fantasy writing tropes and you're loving the first two or three books.  Then all of sudden you're reading and thinking "WTF, nothing has happened for 100 pages."  That's when it's time to abandon ship and move on.  Life's too short to read bad fantasy or sci-fi novels. 

I'm going to disagree with you on Feist for this one.  He headed into that trap with the Serpentwar books, but then immediately headed out of it.  Dunno if he managed to pull his head out of his ass or needed to pay bills, but his books started getting smaller, and with much less padding.  I personally still like it, but I at least recognize his books for what they are, fantasy schlock based on a really long running dnd campaign, but at least characters do die, and time periods do change.

[Salamok]

I think Eriksen is suffering from fantasy mega series write meglomania.  The more books they write the more padding they put in.  Happens to em all - Feist, Eddings, Jordan, Goodkind (or any other mega series writer).  They start off with an interesting spin on typical fantasy writing tropes and you're loving the first two or three books.  Then all of sudden you're reading and thinking "WTF, nothing has happened for 100 pages."  That's when it's time to abandon ship and move on.  Life's too short to read bad fantasy or sci-fi novels. 

I'm going to disagree with you on Feist for this one.  He headed into that trap with the Serpentwar books, but then immediately headed out of it.  Dunno if he managed to pull his head out of his ass or needed to pay bills, but his books started getting smaller, and with much less padding.  I personally still like it, but I at least recognize his books for what they are, fantasy schlock based on a really long running dnd campaign, but at least characters do die, and time periods do change.

he also generally brings his stories to a conclusion even if they are based in the same setting.  This is something Jordan never figured out, he just kept opening up plot lines at 2x the rate he was closing them.  Modesitt is a bit like Fiest here in that he writes many books in the same setting but they are all complete stories that can stand alone. 

[Viin]

Just finished the third book in Robin Hobb's Soldier Son Trilogy, and it's very good. She does ramble on a bit, but this was a very hard book to put down - and even her descriptive text is worth reading. (I normally find myself skimming if an author decides to describe every speck of a room for 3-4 pages).

While this is a fantasy book, it is very well written and has some very good twists and turns. I recommend picking up the first book and see if it catches you - if it does, you'll blaze through the other two books. (And be sad when it's over).

[sidereal]

Is the 3rd one the book where the guys spend half the story hanging out at home being frustrated at being fat or is that the 2nd?

[Viin]

That's the second (he's a grave digger in the army at an outpost). The third gets more interesting (just came out a month or so ago?).

[Ard]

Just finished the third book in Robin Hobb's Soldier Son Trilogy

Honestly, I think this series is the straw the broke the camel's back for me.  I liked it, sorta, but at the same time, it's also rubbed my nose in the fact that every one of her trilogies is the same torture porn fantasy over again, with a slightly different setting.  It's starting to get old.

[Viin]

Just finished the third book in Robin Hobb's Soldier Son Trilogy

Honestly, I think this series is the straw the broke the camel's back for me.  I liked it, sorta, but at the same time, it's also rubbed my nose in the fact that every one of her trilogies is the same torture porn fantasy over again, with a slightly different setting.  It's starting to get old.

I actually have the same problem with her books (never again will I read her Assassin books), though this is only the 2nd series of her's for me.. at least *this* series ends fairly happily, even if you do have to suffer through the moral/spiritual torture of the main character to get there.

[Ard]

I actually have the same problem with her books (never again will I read her Assassin books), though this is only the 2nd series of her's for me.. at least *this* series ends fairly happily, even if you do have to suffer through the moral/spiritual torture of the main character to get there.

If you haven't read her other two trilogies at this point, unless you really like her writing style, I think you can safely skip them.  They're all more or less the same, and there's more books available by people other than her than you already have time to read anyhow.  I'm just persistant, and stupid, thinking something might actually change, and read all 12 of them.

[Johny Cee]

I think Eriksen is suffering from fantasy mega series write meglomania.  The more books they write the more padding they put in.  Happens to em all - Feist, Eddings, Jordan, Goodkind (or any other mega series writer).  They start off with an interesting spin on typical fantasy writing tropes and you're loving the first two or three books.  Then all of sudden you're reading and thinking "WTF, nothing has happened for 100 pages."  That's when it's time to abandon ship and move on.  Life's too short to read bad fantasy or sci-fi novels. 

I'm going to disagree with you on Feist for this one.  He headed into that trap with the Serpentwar books, but then immediately headed out of it.  Dunno if he managed to pull his head out of his ass or needed to pay bills, but his books started getting smaller, and with much less padding.  I personally still like it, but I at least recognize his books for what they are, fantasy schlock based on a really long running dnd campaign, but at least characters do die, and time periods do change.

he also generally brings his stories to a conclusion even if they are based in the same setting.  This is something Jordan never figured out, he just kept opening up plot lines at 2x the rate he was closing them.  Modesitt is a bit like Fiest here in that he writes many books in the same setting but they are all complete stories that can stand alone. 

Gemmell does this too:  same setting, different characters and time periods.  Gemmell is more pulp action, but on the other hand it didn't feel like he reused the same plot over and over like Modesitt seemed to.

I really liked Feist's "Magician" when I read it last year,  but I gave up on the followup book about half way through.

[Margalis]

The other day I was in the library and I was standing behind a middle-aged woman checking a book out with the help of another middle-aged woman. I overheard the following snippet:

"I skimmed to those scenes but they weren't explicit enough!"

I believe they were discussing one of those vamprie adventure-porn books. It was pretty funny coming from two conservative looking women in librarian glasses.

[Ironwood]

They were probably trying to figure out if they could get them banned.

[stray]

Everyone loves vampire porn.

In fact, I might just write a novel myself, now that I'm coming to realize this.

[Sky]

The other day I was in the library and I was standing behind a middle-aged woman checking a book out with the help of another middle-aged woman. I overheard the following snippet:

"I skimmed to those scenes but they weren't explicit enough!"

I believe they were discussing one of those vamprie adventure-porn books. It was pretty funny coming from two conservative looking women in librarian glasses.

If you want to pick up a smart, sexy woman, go to the library. Most women read about sex or murder. Sleep with one eye open!

[schild]

I rarely post in this thread, but I feel compelled since the Berserk comic thread reminded me of it.

Agitator: The Cinema of Takashi Miike

Probably the second best book on/about cinema I've ever read. Falls only behind Emperor and the Wolf, which would cost you a king's ransom to buy now.

Fake Edit: Actually, the price isn't as bad as I expected. Had peaked at around $300+ a few months back.

Real Edit: Oh, it came out in paperback. Looks like that's out of print also though.

[Triforcer]

Anyone who has ever written erotic horror should be strangled with a pair of black leather pants.  The single worst thing to happen to the American literary scene in decades. 

[Draegan]

Someone mentioned, I think Haem, a book on Stalin's early years.  Can someone give me a title and author?

[Righ]

Anyone who has ever written erotic horror should be strangled with a pair of black leather pants.

Many of them probably have been. And loved it.

[HaemishM]

Someone mentioned, I think Haem, a book on Stalin's early years.  Can someone give me a title and author?

Young Stalin by Simon Sebag Montefiore. Absolutely fantastic fucking book.