Return of the Book Thread

[Johny Cee]

I think if you're not getting it and not enjoying it by then, give up. Since I can't think of too many other books where a place like Hogwarts is treated as if it were a real prep school--full of drugs, ennui, snobbery and adolescent pain--I'm not sure how the book can be a "cliche" exactly. It's definitely riffing off of other fantasies--Harry Potter in the first half, Narnia in the second half--but growing them up and making them three-dimensionally "realistic" in a variety of ways. If that basic schtick isn't interesting to you, or you're not getting that this is what's going on, you won't like it.

I will say that I think the first book is the weakest of the three, but then, I think it's pretty strong.

Yeah I guess it's just me. Harry Potter meets Narnia with a cast of self-obsessed uni students who I hate. The problem is the for me the combination is just the combination, it's just a fan-fix mash up instead of generating somethig new and interesting. I much much prefer  reading Brett Easton Ellis for the prep school stuff, much more depth to it. I really didn't by the realism aspect, it all felt paint by numbers and didn't touch me apart from making me frustrated.

It reads very first bookish, the feeling is the author was making it up as he went along and the plot just kind of happens, along with large explanatory paragraphs of 'meaning', so I'm actually going to give the second a go and see how his craft has come along.

I've almost responded to this a few times when it has been brought up, but couldn't figure out how to without coming off as an arrogant douche.

The Brakebills section is basically the Ivy League student experience.  I read it and went, "Grossman went to an Ivy League school" (yes, Harvard.)  My experience was pretty similar.  Unrealistic expectations of the amount of work you have to do and the administration turning a blind eye to fairly endemic alcohol abuse (and some drug use) as a pressure release, the whole bit selling that all the students are special snowflakes, the way post-graduate reality upsets the cart (well, I was one of the few that didn't give a shit well before graduation about how special everyone was supposed to be... but according to my alumni shit there are plenty of folks who run off to be I Bankers, MDs, and Management Consultants who definitely come to that realization a few years after graduation), etc.

Bret Easton Ellis went to Bennington, which is basically a really expensive Northeastern school but without much of the academic reputation that the other private Northeastern schools in the same price range have.  It does end up with kids from similar high school/prep school background.

[Khaldun]

It's why I mentioned the new book Excellent Sheep, which is pretty much dialing in on the same thing.

[lamaros]

I think if you're not getting it and not enjoying it by then, give up. Since I can't think of too many other books where a place like Hogwarts is treated as if it were a real prep school--full of drugs, ennui, snobbery and adolescent pain--I'm not sure how the book can be a "cliche" exactly. It's definitely riffing off of other fantasies--Harry Potter in the first half, Narnia in the second half--but growing them up and making them three-dimensionally "realistic" in a variety of ways. If that basic schtick isn't interesting to you, or you're not getting that this is what's going on, you won't like it.

I will say that I think the first book is the weakest of the three, but then, I think it's pretty strong.

Yeah I guess it's just me. Harry Potter meets Narnia with a cast of self-obsessed uni students who I hate. The problem is the for me the combination is just the combination, it's just a fan-fix mash up instead of generating somethig new and interesting. I much much prefer  reading Brett Easton Ellis for the prep school stuff, much more depth to it. I really didn't by the realism aspect, it all felt paint by numbers and didn't touch me apart from making me frustrated.

It reads very first bookish, the feeling is the author was making it up as he went along and the plot just kind of happens, along with large explanatory paragraphs of 'meaning', so I'm actually going to give the second a go and see how his craft has come along.

I've almost responded to this a few times when it has been brought up, but couldn't figure out how to without coming off as an arrogant douche.

The Brakebills section is basically the Ivy League student experience.  I read it and went, "Grossman went to an Ivy League school" (yes, Harvard.)  My experience was pretty similar.  Unrealistic expectations of the amount of work you have to do and the administration turning a blind eye to fairly endemic alcohol abuse (and some drug use) as a pressure release, the whole bit selling that all the students are special snowflakes, the way post-graduate reality upsets the cart (well, I was one of the few that didn't give a shit well before graduation about how special everyone was supposed to be... but according to my alumni shit there are plenty of folks who run off to be I Bankers, MDs, and Management Consultants who definitely come to that realization a few years after graduation), etc.

Bret Easton Ellis went to Bennington, which is basically a really expensive Northeastern school but without much of the academic reputation that the other private Northeastern schools in the same price range have.  It does end up with kids from similar high school/prep school background.

Yeah, I get it. I just don't think he pulled it off very well.

[dd0029]

I hated The Magicians. I think the thing that really gets me is that it failed at every point as a genre book in the second half after an extremely promising first half. It's like a long haha fuck you to genre readers once they leave school. There are three distinct sections. The school section, the post grad stuff and then the Connecticut Yankee bit. The post grad stuff was particularly jarring. At that point he just abandoned the premise of magic in the real world and said fuck it. He wanted to write about the loose ends experience of graduating an Ivy League school. Then he remembers he has this genre premise, but completely forgets his original magic in the real world schtick. He obviously liked Narnia as a kid so he left turns into a Conneticut Yankee in Narnia, but without any of the charm or interest. There's no real investigation or thought about transporting modern people to a different world and their response. It's just a plot train until the end. And because he's writing "literature" and not genre we have to experience this whole whiplash experience in the seat of a whiny, self absorbed asshole who never grows or changes in anyway throughout the seven year period of the book. This is the only book I've ever honestly wanted to just throw away.

[lamaros]

Yeah I think I'm giving up on the second one. To much of a 'what does the author feel like unsubtly belabouring now? Ok have whatever character is around say or think that - who cares if it doesn't fit! wait what about the plot? Lets throw some magic in, we've forgotten to mention that for a bit? Does that make sense and is it consistent? Who cares time for another tangent I've just thought about something else witty that doesn't really fit in with anything else at all but fuck it!'

I feel like it is written by convenience rather than with purpose and coherency, and the characterisation, world building and plotting suffers greatly as a result. It never finds its voice, and all it's points are shallow and conceited. It's more of a 'I want to write about X, maybe ill set it in Harry potter though' rather than serious speculative world construction that follows the consequences of such a reality with vigour.

[Tmon]

Yeah I think I'm giving up on the second one. To much of a 'what does the author feel like unsubtly belabouring now? Ok have whatever character is around say or think that - who cares if it doesn't fit! wait what about the plot? Lets throw some magic in, we've forgotten to mention that for a bit? Does that make sense and is it consistent? Who cares time for another tangent I've just thought about something else witty that doesn't really fit in with anything else at all but fuck it!'

I feel like it is written by convenience rather than with purpose and coherency, and the characterisation, world building and plotting suffers greatly as a result. It never finds its voice, and all it's points are shallow and conceited. It's more of a 'I want to write about X, maybe ill set it in Harry potter though' rather than serious speculative world construction that follows the consequences of such a reality with vigour.

Thanks to an error (mine or the libray's I don't know) when I placed a hold on the first book in the trilogy, I actually got the 3rd.  Reading the above and other comments about these books makes me feel a lot better about just saying fuck it and reading the 3rd book.  It took a while to get into but it mostly was able to stand alone.

[lamaros]

I'm a pretty critical person, it doesn't mean i idnt find anything of value in them. There is also a bit to like, and I did actually enjoy much of the books, I just wished it all came together a bit better.

There is a lot of stuff out there though, and not so much of my time.

[dd0029]

Got Scalzi's newest, Lock In, from the library. While the ostensible plot mystery was blindingly obvious, getting to the end was entertaining. I do wonder if things would have been less clear had I not read the very good prequel and freely available online Unlocked  Fortunately this one was more The Android's Dream or Fuzzy Nation and nothing like Redshirts. Hopefully he's given up on experimental writing.

[Khaldun]

I think he'd be wise to just accept that he's the Second Coming of Heinlein without the nutty politics. That's how he reads to me, and there's nothing at all wrong with that.

[Morat20]

Got Scalzi's newest, Lock In, from the library. While the ostensible plot mystery was blindingly obvious, getting to the end was entertaining. I do wonder if things would have been less clear had I not read the very good prequel and freely available online Unlocked  Fortunately this one was more The Android's Dream or Fuzzy Nation and nothing like Redshirts. Hopefully he's given up on experimental writing.

I quite liked Redshirts.

Randomly, we have a few authors here -- any of you play with Scrivener?

[Shannow]

Got Scalzi's newest, Lock In, from the library. While the ostensible plot mystery was blindingly obvious, getting to the end was entertaining. I do wonder if things would have been less clear had I not read the very good prequel and freely available online Unlocked  Fortunately this one was more The Android's Dream or Fuzzy Nation and nothing like Redshirts. Hopefully he's given up on experimental writing.

Annnnd there goes 30 minutes of my life in the blink of an eye. That was fun, kinda WW Zish. Gonna have to get Lock In now.
I enjoy Scalzi, not the deepest, but the writing is fun and interesting.

[Khaldun]

I am making another try at Scrivener for my current book project. I tried once before and found it off-putting in various ways. But I also like what it's trying to be, so it may just be a question of getting past the initial unfamiliarity for the way it wants to direct or structure workflow.

[HaemishM]

I haven't used Scrivener (I think it's only recently that it's been available on Windows) though I did use Storybook for my third Bridge novel. I'm horrible about not actually making notes for shit so to use those products often requires me doing extra work ahead of time. I will say though, it can be helpful keeping track of characters.

[Morat20]

My wife's been considering intergrating it into her English class -- not as a requirement or anything, but as another tool for kids (high school seniors and juniors) to use when doing writing. Not that they'd used it much for her class (none of the writing required is that long), but she thinks the way it's laid out might benefit some students -- just a different approach to organizing and thinking about it.

[Khaldun]

I think it would be a great way to teach high school students about project workflow in general actually. Writing something longer is probably the first place a lot of them will encounter the need for managing and planning workflow over a longer time than "the paper is due tomorrow, MOM"

[Viin]

Finished 3 books on my trip to NZ last week: Ancillary Justice, Lock In, and Haemish's First Stone.

Ancillary Justice is pretty good, I like how the primary character is a ship AI. Getting use to everyone being a "she" is interesting, but it works.

Lock In is also good, as some of you have noted. Pretty short, I think I finished it in 2-3 hrs.

First Stone is also very good, much more of a murder mystery than I was expecting. I had just finished Lock In when I started this one, so I had some deja vu - I'm interested to see where this one goes! (Any ETA for #3?)

[HaemishM]

Rough draft on Episode 3 is done. I'm going to try to get it out by end of September/first of October.

[RhyssaFireheart]

Finished 3 books on my trip to NZ last week: Ancillary Justice, Lock In, and Haemish's First Stone.

Ancillary Justice is pretty good, I like how the primary character is a ship AI. Getting use to everyone being a "she" is interesting, but it works.

Lock In is also good, as some of you have noted. Pretty short, I think I finished it in 2-3 hrs.

First Stone is also very good, much more of a murder mystery than I was expecting. I had just finished Lock In when I started this one, so I had some deja vu - I'm interested to see where this one goes! (Any ETA for #3?)

Oh cool, didn't know you had something new out, Haemish.  Nook books - purchased!

[dd0029]

Just finished an interesting book, The City of Stairs by Robert Jackson Bennett. This was much better than it's cover blurb which reads like a fantasy version of a standard urban fantasy book. The biggest misdirection from the cover blurb is the covert operative is not some young ingenue, but a middle aged person. Yay for experience. I really enjoyed the world building. It reminded me at times of NK Jemisin with the magic/divine,  as well as some Paula Volsky with the creaky, collapsing, reforming empire.

[WayAbvPar]

Still slogging through the WoT. Finally to new material (end of Jordan-authored stuff and into Sanderson)-  Sanderson's style is a jolt from Jordan's- much shorter sentences, clearer (and less flowery) descriptions, etc. It feels different, but I think I like it (I am definitely at least content with it). I am still wondering how the fuck it gets stretched into 2 more books after the current one given what has happened, the Dark Lord's increasing touch on the world, etc. Unless the 3 Sanderson books describe less than a month or so of actual world time, everyone should starve to death from lack of potable food and water, yes? I mean shit is rotting minutes after it is prepared...

[dd0029]

Sanderson book 2 is a very short period. It's lots of stuff moving around, but in interesting ways. I think book two was the best Sanderson book. The only thing I really didn't like with Sanderson is his Mat. He has a completely different take on him and I did not like it. Books 1 and 3 felt the most Jordan like.

[Quinton]

Ancillary Justice is pretty good, I like how the primary character is a ship AI. Getting use to everyone being a "she" is interesting, but it works.

Good timing -- the sequel, Ancillary Sword, is due next week.  I reread the first book ahead of that.  Was as good as I remembered.

Just finished an interesting book, The City of Stairs by Robert Jackson Bennett. This was much better than it's cover blurb which reads like a fantasy version of a standard urban fantasy book. The biggest misdirection from the cover blurb is the covert operative is not some young ingenue, but a middle aged person. Yay for experience. I really enjoyed the world building. It reminded me at times of NK Jemisin with the magic/divine,  as well as some Paula Volsky with the creaky, collapsing, reforming empire.

I really enjoyed this.  Had a hint of Max Gladstone's Craft Sequence stuff (at least in so far as having a setting after the gods have been destroyed where basic civic services were dependent on those gods for operation, etc) too.

[Xilren's Twin]

Picked up a Brandon Sanderson book from the YA section named Steelheart based on a recommendation from a friend.  It's an interesting take on the superpower theme - basically, all of the people who randomly  developed super powers turn out to be villans and take over the world, and the story is about a team of underground assassins that try to take them out.  It's pretty dark for a YA book (or maybe not - havent read many of them) as it almost feels post apocalyptic, but so far it's enjoyable.  It's the kind of book that could easily be turned into a movie and i would not be shocked to learn if it gets optioned very soon.

Steelheart it a superman like character who is the main bad guy, and the goal of the main character is to kill him...

[murdoc]

New Vlad Taltos book 'Hawk'. Picked it up and I just hope Brust is done with the Alexandre Dumas writing style as that completely wrecked the last book for me.

[Sky]

Turns out one of my painter buddies is Sanderson's brother. He doesn't run into many geeks who haven't read his brother's stuff and don't give a shit who his brother is.

Anyway, just finished Vernor Vinge's A Deepness in the Sky. I had read A Fire in the Deep, which was pretty good but I got a little tired of his aliens by the end. The second book (Deepness) the characterization and plot turns were far better. Enjoyed it quite a bit.

[Mosesandstick]

Finished Birdsong by Sebastian Faulks, which I found pretty depressing but I really enjoyed reading it. I found the jumping around time periods a bit jarring at first but got used to it pretty quickly. Also finished Surely you're joking Mr Feynman, which is a good laugh. Richard Feynman was crazy, mostly in a good way.

[HaemishM]

Finished reading Reamde. I was a bit disappointed in it, to be honest. It started out with some really interesting ideas around the T'Rain game and then it veered into this crazy sitcom terrorist abduction revenge plot. I got to the end and I still don't have any idea what kind of story he was trying to tell. Once Abdullah Jones got involved, it just all seemed so... pedestrian. Not to mention the ludicrous coincidences that required all the characters to converge on the same point for the climax. For such a long book, it seemed like there was a whole shitload of needless padding explaining how Characters A and B got to point C.

[WayAbvPar]

Finished reading Reamde. I was a bit disappointed in it, to be honest. It started out with some really interesting ideas around the T'Rain game and then it veered into this crazy sitcom terrorist abduction revenge plot. I got to the end and I still don't have any idea what kind of story he was trying to tell. Once Abdullah Jones got involved, it just all seemed so... pedestrian. Not to mention the ludicrous coincidences that required all the characters to converge on the same point for the climax. For such a long book, it seemed like there was a whole shitload of needless padding explaining how Characters A and B got to point C.

That is Stephenson to a T, though. Unbelievably cool ideas/setting/plots, and then just crap endings. I still enjoyed it, but yeah.

New Vlad Taltos book 'Hawk'. Picked it up and I just hope Brust is done with the Alexandre Dumas writing style as that completely wrecked the last book for me.

I love the Taltos stuff, but the Phoenix Guard books (the 3 Musketeers ripoff) just annoyed me, and worse, bored me. I think my favorite of his is Agyar though. Just a quiet little book, but very interestingly told/written.

[NowhereMan]

Reamde seemed much worse for that than the other books of his I've read, Anathem at least had a coherent plot or at least didn't feel like two completely different books stapled together. Reamde isn't even an unsatisfying ending so much as a book that starts off with an interesting take on a game world and virtual economies interacting with the real world that suddenly turns into some sort of Clancy-lite rugged outdoorsman against Al-Qaeda thing. I remember being super disappointed in it and was nearly put off reading Anathem which I loved.

[Rendakor]

I've tried reading Anathem but the beginning is very strange and didn't hook me. Reamde's ending was pretty shit.

[Ingmar]

Wow, I'm surprised at the reactions. The first Phoenix Guards book is miles better than anything else Brust has ever written, to me.

[HaemishM]

Reamde isn't even an unsatisfying ending so much as a book that starts off with an interesting take on a game world and virtual economies interacting with the real world that suddenly turns into some sort of Clancy-lite rugged outdoorsman against Al-Qaeda thing.

This. At least with Anathem or The Diamond Age, I got an idea of what he was trying to do - it was like those novels had IDEAS. They were meant to go somewhere and be about something. Reamde just didn't seem to be about anything in the end. Clancy-lite is a very good description of it. Maybe his idea was to show that rugged American gun-lovers could take out terrorists but if that's the case, he shouldn't have bothered. There are tons of books like that which are just about as interesting. T'Rain and the whole game world/virtual economy thing felt stapled on by the end, more a gimmick than any integral part of the story. He could have excised the whole thing and had a much less interesting book but it would have saved a good 2-300 pages.

[Count Nerfedalot]

The Countess just hooked me up with Ancillary Justice - very nice old time space opera feel with updated science. A fun ride that touches on some interesting philosophical thought puzzles but sadly doesn't go very deep, with the upside of not therefore getting preachy.  She's reading the sequel Ancillary Sword right now as I type.  Does anyone know if it is possible for the two of us to read our single Nook copy on our separate devices (but single account) at the same time? I can't figure out how that would work and don't want to mess her up toying with it.

Murdoc, do let us know how Hawk is! I love me some Vlad even if it was mostly fluffy with a couple absurdly contrasting bleak spots. The Phoenix Guards stuff told a deeper story, but boy was it a ponderous read.

Haemish, I'm sure you've answered this question a zillion times but I'm lazy, sorry: I has a Nook and want to read something of yours, what should I start with?  I just finished the sample chapters of Under the Amoral Bridge, should I start from there?  I liked most of what I read, except maybe the term "GlobalNet". Why the cheesy name for what we currently know as the internet or web, even if it is advanced a bit (and more directly run by corporation(s) than is currently the case) 15 years from now? Or is that explained later?

[HaemishM]

If you think you'll want to read the whole Bridge Chronicles series, you would start with Under - or you can get the whole series in one eBook for $7.99.

This GlobalPedia article on the series site might explain the GlobalNet a bit better. I chose the name GlobalNet because I wanted something that was obviously an evolution of the Internet with a centralized authority that attempted to exert some control over the network. Participation in the GlobalNet for a country (and thus all its citizens and corporations) required adherence to certain sets of international laws regarding copyright, access fees, etc. I could have easily called it the Internet, or the Matrix or Floyd - some of those may have been taken.  As for why that name, sounded as good to me as anything else.

If you wanted to get into my Cthulhu series (Stepping Stone Cycle), you can either start with First Stone or wait until I get the 3rd book out (shooting for this month). I plan on releasing episodes 1-3 in a compilation eBook and paperback when that happens. No new material, just all 3 in one convenient package. Those tend to sell pretty well.

[Count Nerfedalot]

Thanks! I'll give the Bridge Chronicles a spin.  I don't think I'm the target audience for Cthulu stuff. I'm not too fond of horror generally, and what little Cthulu I read decades ago didn't leave any different taste, although I remember none of it except for being slightly uneasy the next time I encountered the rubbery squishy smelly remains of some unidentifiable critter on the beach.