Game of Thrones [SPOILERS]

[Tebonas]

Did he? I though he was figuring it out because she stroked her belly.

Either way, Tyrion has not the best track record the last few seasons. Even Sansa realized he is not that smart anymore, and she didn't see all his failures like we did.

[HaemishM]

I still find it hard to read into book Varys that he's just a nice guy - it matches available info after Joffery takes over but no obvious sense before that.

I didn't say he was a nice guy. He most certainly wasn't, either book or TV Varys. His drives were very much revenge-based - see what he did to the wizard who cut off his balls. His aims were that the powerful would be accountable to and responsible for the people they held power over, because he's seen all too well the damage that the powerful can do when they have no checks. He's literally the "responsible government" character. While it's a noble goal, he is hardly noble in carrying it out. He's perhaps the least honorable character on the show because of how well he hides his machinations.

In a world of violent cunts, he's probably the cuntiest for all the wrong reasons but with the best intended outcomes.

[Teleku]

I still find it hard to read into book Varys that he's just a nice guy - it matches available info after Joffery takes over but no obvious sense before that.

TV Varys, sure why not.

In the very first book Vary’s goes to meet Ned down in the dungeon and gives him some water to relieve his suffering, then basically asks ‘wtf did you do that for you moron, listen to me, I’m trying to help you.’  He then manages to get it so that Ned is sent to the wall instead of executed (or so he thinks), even though a schemer would have no use for him at that point and shouldn’t care.

Vary’s is obviously extremely dangerous and driven by his own goals, but from the get go he’s been portrayed as a guy murdering his way towards fixing the kingdom, instead of murdering his way towards ruling it like everybody else.

Book Vary’s could still totally pull of his mask and reveal he’s evil at the end, but even when I read the first book, I got the sense he was one of the good guys (as much as you can have in the books).

[eldaec]

The most satisfying ending for Varys I can see is that the speech about the sorcerer cutting off his nads turns out to be true, and he is part of the anti magic faction.

That might become relevant since presumably the rise of magic is the cause of both winter and dragons - and ending that ecological problem is ultimately how you stop the night king.

It might also be relevant to all the wheel and breaking the wheel stuff.

[Khaldun]

I think book Varys' motives are still a bit mysterious, though--most of the character work on him in the series where he philosophizes about power and the wheel and situates himself as the anti-Littlefinger doesn't have a lot of echoes in the books. It looks from his last murder spree in the books as if he's trying to get someone strong on the throne again with a pro-Targ take, but even that's not very verified (or varys-fied, as it were).

TV Varys has been pretty much a good guy from the get-go in some fashion, but he actively moved into that lane after crossing the Narrow Sea with Tyrion.

I really don't think the series writers fully recognize that Tyrion has been a fuck-up as the Queen's Hand. E.g., that seems plain to most viewers, but I don't think it's actually what they think they've done. Kind of the same as the really dumb fucking stuff with Arya and Sansa fighting last season which they then lamely tried to pretend at the very end was just setting up Littlefinger. You can really feel how much they lost the sense of the characters once they went beyond Martin's writing--I feel like you can plainly spot what the big set-pieces that were in Martin's outline of the plot were and which things they had to make up.

In Martin's notes, I'm guessing:

Jon comes back to life
Jon sees the Night King/Wild Walkers
Sam discovers important stuff at the Citadel
Stannis gets killed but maybe not by Ramsay Bolton
Jon declares himself free of his oath after dying and retakes Winterfell in a battle; Ramsay gets brutally killed
Sansa and Littlefinger show up to help Jon at Winterfell with the Knights of the Vale (but I suspect Sansa will be much more Littlefinger-like and in control in the books, if that happens)
Dany takes control of the Dothraki, defeats an attack by the Slave Lords, gets boats and returns to Westeros
Dany and Tyrion meet when she returns from the Dothraki and Tyrion gets into her good graces
Arya returns to Westeros, probably after rebelling in some fashion against the Faceless Men
Arya kills at least some of the people on her list, probably the Freys in particular
Cersei blows up the Sept (that one in particular feels like it comes straight from Martin's outline) and seizes the Iron Throne after her son commits suicide
A dragon gets captured/killed by the Walkers and is used to bring down the Wall
Winterfell is the first place that there's a major fight with the Walkers after the Wall comes down

But I'm guessing that if Martin ever does write his own version of this:

Tyrion remains bitter and depressed
Arya is way creepier
Sansa becomes a Littlefinger-like schemer and is the prime mover behind Littlefinger's eventual death
Varys remains dangerous and mysterious (hard to know what's going to go down with Young Griff and all that)
etc.--I suspect the characterizations will be different and harsher. But then I think this is one thing that has Martin kind of stymied--his desire to keep anyone from emerging as a classic fantasy protagonist that readers can straightforwardly root for. At some point that becomes a narrative prison in its own right.

[Selby]

He oozes both authority and sexappeal. Strong without being a psychopath. He is intelligent which again is a very sexy trait in any person. Jamie comes a close second in date-ability, but is more the cliché of a fairy tale prince while Tywin is the teacher you have a crush on.

I loved Tywin for all the reasons you list. He seemed to be one of the more intelligent and capable people in the entire series, and actually executed his plans and made things happen unlike the majority of others. I still have a strong dislike for Jamie because of his early antics but he’s at least redeemed himself somewhat.

[eldaec]

I still find it hard to read into book Varys that he's just a nice guy - it matches available info after Joffery takes over but no obvious sense before that.

TV Varys, sure why not.

In the very first book Vary’s goes to meet Ned down in the dungeon and gives him some water to relieve his suffering, then basically asks ‘wtf did you do that for you moron, listen to me, I’m trying to help you.’  He then manages to get it so that Ned is sent to the wall instead of executed (or so he thinks), even though a schemer would have no use for him at that point and shouldn’t care.

Varys explicitly explains the reason for this when he under the keep with illyrio.

He is not ready for the war.

He wants a war to remove Robert, but not yet. He knows that if Ned dies the war of the 5 kings will come too early for either Viserys, Dany, or fake Aegon to win it. Maybe he has a preference for which, maybe he does not.

Book 1 Varys certainly appears to want control of the throne.

[calapine]

TV-Varys defiantly seems to be set up as a good guy. I hope the producers are going to throw a curveball here, because right now it looks like it's set up to have Daneyrs and Jon with Vaerys setting up some enlightened government with slavery abolished, being just ruler with the interest of the small folk at heart. Also destroying the feudal Westeros society and replacing it with an absolute monarchy, thus destroying the Game of Thrones and ever changing wheel. Disgusting.

The lession, which should occur wether Daneyrs wins or loses, should be the same the the US learned post cold-war: History never stops. The wheel will keep up turning, same shit as always: plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose.

In this sense I would like a Cersei win, showing that not the best ruler wins and not even necessarily the brutalst one but that it can come down to pure luck.

[Samwise]

Way back in season 1, when someone (I forget who, I think it was Ned?) asked Varys "and whom do YOU serve?" he said "The realm.  Somebody has to."  At the time I thought there was a decent chance he was bullshitting, but his actions have fairly consistently borne that out.

(edit) on the subject of squirrels, I was always a Margaery fan first and foremost.  For pretty much all the obvious reasons, plus the fact that even in a medieval setting I bet she had impeccable personal hygiene.     Limiting ourselves to people who are still alive makes it considerably harder because most of them are cray cray in one way or another.

[Threash]

Okay pretty random, but the scene introducing Tywin was one of the best in the show. Just read that the stag he is skinning is a real one: https://youtu.be/47MazYDnmaU

Pretty sure they stole it from Abercrombies first law trilogy though, that's how Bayaz is introduced.

[Polysorbate80]

(edit) on the subject of squirrels, I was always a Margaery fan first and foremost.  For pretty much all the obvious reasons, plus the fact that even in a medieval setting I bet she had impeccable personal hygiene.     Limiting ourselves to people who are still alive makes it considerably harder because most of them are cray cray in one way or another.

Who of the men would you like to date most? (genuine question)

Sam, I think you're missing the one critical word in that request.  Get with the program!  

[Samwise]

Oh, that one's Tyrion, easily.  He's entertaining and we already know he's fine with sexless relationships born of necessity.   

[Threash]

Tyrion is a horndog and hung like a moose. The obvious pick is Grey Worm, duh.

[Polysorbate80]

I half expect someone to try to argue that Brienne somehow counts as a man...

Edit:  Brain kicking out more useless stuff—suppose the Night King overruns Winterfell, raises everyone in the crypts, and we get Headless Ned, the Undead Dad?  Has a Netflix-comedy-spinoff ring to it.

[Teleku]

They’ve been sort of foreshadowing that, but I really hope they leave the shit in the crypts out of this.  At this point they would be pure skeleton, and I don’t think we’ve seen pure skeleton wights yet, have we?

[Draegan]

Or maybe the crypts are magic because first men reasons and he can't be raised, but something else magic happens and he's a good-guy undead?

Hopefully none of that happens.

[Khaldun]

Might be one way we get a cheap version of Lady Stoneheart.

[Rendakor]

Didn't we have Coldhands as a good guy undead already?

[Threash]

Didn't we have Coldhands as a good guy undead already?

We did

[Teleku]

I just really don’t want to deal with the gimick of long dead characters being brought back as some sort of shock thing.  Just seems really dumb.  And again, every single person named so far is so long dead they would just be unrecognizable bones, so it would be really fucking stupid.

Now, current characters I fully expect to be killed and come back as a nemesis.  Probably when Winterfell inevitably... falls.  Maybe blue eyed Hound or even Jaime.  Or maybe the Mountain shows up with Cersei but suddenly turns blue eyed and converts because he’s already fucking undead.

Also, I will hold out hope that the Gold Company is there to backstab Cersei, but looking like they are going to stick with safe plot paths.

[Miguel]

At this point they would be pure skeleton, and I don’t think we’ve seen pure skeleton wights yet, have we?

[calapine]

1) I apologise for my habit of posting things that go against the current direction of a thread. Not doing it to be annoying.

2) The Cersei I choose violence scene.

Some thoughts:
a) It's definitely camp but so poignant.  
Nice acting detail the knowing smirk and glance Cersei and Qyborn exchange at 1:51. They know what's coming.  

a) Funny how easy it is to tug one's emotional strings. After the traumatising Oberyn fight who would ever think of rooting for the Mountain? Yet the faith militants are such unlikeable cunts that I find myself doing exactly that.

b) A fair critisim against Qyborn that due to his invincibility he is more plot-macguffing than a character, but from an acting POV he is great. A YouTube comment put it very well: "Somebody needs to arrest Qyborn facial expression because they are stealing the scenes."

Similar to how scenes that have Bronn being typical Bronn are enjoyable regardless of what is happening in them plot wise.

c) Qyborn in general is the closest Cersei ever had to a true friend. Cersei seems to genuinely respect him too, which is something rare as has aproblem forging, ah,.. healthy relationships with anyone outside her kids. He for his part seems 100% loyal.

The closest in-universe comperison would be Daneyrs relationship with her dragons. Qyborn is Cersei's dragon. In fact, he literally burns her enemies. (cf the Sept of Baelor)

[Mandella]

I haven't been part of the discussion here, but I can't help but bomb the thread with this link:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vU15_LP_oiM&feature=youtu.be

If you are a guitar rock fan *and* a GoT fan you have got to see this -- at least the first three minutes.

[Draegan]

Pretty cool. 

[HaemishM]

That was fucking awesome.

[calapine]

I found a deleted scene:
https://youtu.be/lMXJlUIQP94

Tywin is fishing, echoing thr scene with the stag, while talking with Pycelle and getting him to drop his feeble old man act.

Worth a watch!

[calapine]

[calapine]

Also, what's the ending going to be? "

Kinda want to know how far people will be off.

Edit: Recapping the show a bit to refresh my memory and came across this scene with, IMHO, one of the more underrated characters in the shoe: King Robert.

He and Cersei talk about their marriage . One of the few where Robert shows up as more than a loud drunk. Cersei shows a real human side and one gets the feeling they almost could make their relationship work.  
Happy Couple

Also Got started in April 2011. I was just a young babe of 30 years back than. Fuck...

[Threash]

That list is missing the rest of the sand snakes.

[Samwise]

Wouldn't it be great if Robin ended up on the Iron Throne somehow, just to troll all of us?

[Mandella]

I found a deleted scene:
https://youtu.be/lMXJlUIQP94

Tywin is fishing, echoing thr scene with the stag, while talking with Pycelle and getting him to drop his feeble old man act.

Worth a watch!

I love Julian Glover.

He was in *everything* in the sixties as the overly officious and very British-officer-type prick who nonetheless had backbone when the chips were down. He had great characters in The Avengers (the British silly but great spy show, for you young uns out there), the Saint, and my personal favorite, Five Million Years to Earth (aka Quartermass and the Pit).

He was about eighty in that scene above, and he's still working today.

[Riggswolfe]

Also, what's the ending going to be? "

Kinda want to know how far people will be off.

A lot of people think Sansa could end up on the Throne. I personally think Dany is going to die and possibly Jon will die one last time so Sansa or Tyrion makes sense. But I also am kind of hoping for an apocalyptic ending with the last shot being snow falling in the burning remains of the throne room. Something like the way the 80s The Thing ended. But I don't think HBO is brave enough to do it.

I love Julian Glover.

He was in *everything* in the sixties as the overly officious and very British-officer-type prick who nonetheless had backbone when the chips were down. He had great characters in The Avengers (the British silly but great spy show, for you young uns out there), the Saint, and my personal favorite, Five Million Years to Earth (aka Quartermass and the Pit).

He was about eighty in that seen above, and he's still working today.

I'm the type of nerd that remembers him mainly from the Empire Strikes Back and one of the Indiana Jones movies. I think it's the Last Crusade. Otherwise known as the last Indiana Jones movies since none were made after that movie.

[Threash]

Yeah, i seriously doubt we get an ending that includes a unified seven kingdoms. We'll get Sansa in charge of Winterfell, and various other parties in charge of the other kingdoms (Robin? Tyrion? Edmure? Gendry?).

[calapine]

Also, what's the ending going to be? "

Kinda want to know how far people will be off.

But I also am kind of hoping for an apocalyptic ending with the last shot being snow falling in the burning remains of the throne room. Something like the way the 80s The Thing ended. But I don't think HBO is brave enough to do it.

We saw several times visions of Bran that showed exactly that. I wouldn't rule it out.

My predictions, based on some leaky meta-info, so spoilers here, beware:

[Sir T]

The game of Thrones: the only winning move is not to play...