War

[setar]

Pretty much: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1260727&page=1

In short, Aralis turned down an offer (return of D-G to Paxton, removal of all SBUs in Providence space in exchange for the promise of no further Sov warfare in Catch initiated by Providence residents. The offer was turned down.

[Viper ShizzIe]

Hey maybe if PL weren't such pussies this might not be such an issue ;)

At least Fountain lasted longer than Delve.

[Sir T]

 

[tgr]

[bhodi]

Stay on target...

[Endie]

Typical of AAA to either arrogantly or stupidly ignore the way their opposite number will behave in negotiations.  They could have achieved a cease-fire no bother at all with the right RP rationale, but instead they say to the Amarr-loyalist RPers that they must abandon their very raison d'etre.  It shows a lack of subtlty and a pride-fuelled unawareness of their own best interests.

Welcome to a version of Eve where you drown in a sea of blues entirely of your own making.  I wish that CVA would come and occupy lower Syndicate to pacify that for the empire.

Anyway, Syndicate is providing us with absolutely constant small and mid-gang warfare right now.  There are hostile gangs of every size and composition, from titan ganksquads through Russian HAC gangs to destroyer ~wolfpax~, usually within as little as a single gate-jump from our base, which is great for FCs.  It's rotten space, and there is some discontent amongst those who keep score in cash, but most people are just enjoying doing something fun.

[Viper ShizzIe]

Typical of AAA to either arrogantly or stupidly ignore the way their opposite number will behave in negotiations.  They could have achieved a cease-fire no bother at all with the right RP rationale, but instead they say to the Amarr-loyalist RPers that they must abandon their very raison d'etre.  It shows a lack of subtlty and a pride-fuelled unawareness of their own best interests.

Welcome to a version of Eve where you drown in a sea of blues entirely of your own making.  I wish that CVA would come and occupy lower Syndicate to pacify that for the empire.

Anyway, Syndicate is providing us with absolutely constant small and mid-gang warfare right now.  There are hostile gangs of every size and composition, from titan ganksquads through Russian HAC gangs to destroyer ~wolfpax~, usually within as little as a single gate-jump from our base, which is great for FCs.  It's rotten space, and there is some discontent amongst those who keep score in cash, but most people are just enjoying doing something fun.

I don't think AAA actually wanted providence to surrender. It's very likely they saw Provi as a way to combat stagnation since goons didn't give them the fights they were expecting. Adding in a way to "have negotiations" and make it look like CVA was being hardheaded could just be a shrewd political move to remove support for CVA from some smaller entities.

Then again it could be MC+FIX being inept at diplomacy.

[Simond]

Ahahaha, there is absolutely no way this will end well for -A-
Outcome 1: They overcome their endemic laziness and actually finish a war, 'freeing' Providence. Then they look around and see nothing but a sea of blues.
Outcome 2: They do well until they come across someone who can actually set timers/their ADD kicks in and wander off with the job half-done, and -A- becomes "that part of the southern blob who couldn't even finish off the RP alliances"

Setar, please pass on my warmest congratulations to your leadership. This decision makes "Delve: Hey, who turned out the lights?" look slightly less stupid in comparison. 

[setar]

I don't think AAA actually wanted providence to surrender. It's very likely they saw Provi as a way to combat stagnation since goons didn't give them the fights they were expecting. Adding in a way to "have negotiations" and make it look like CVA was being hardheaded could just be a shrewd political move to remove support for CVA from some smaller entities.

Then again it could be MC+FIX being inept at diplomacy.

Felt the offer was simple -- return to the status as before the invasion, but simply with a mutual non-invasion pact (aka, no sov warfare). CVA leadership is tired of their public view and feels they need to shed the 'that RP allliance' image.

As for finishing the campaign, we'll see. Not sure Goons are in a position to call others out on ADD, really; I also doubt that we really need to grind through 30+ stations before the first Providence corps bail. However, if they get everyone motivated enough to log in they'll easily have twice our fleet numbers which even without lag would make the whole thing.. interesting.

[Endie]

Two people not logging in for a week doesn't make us ADD.  We have, after all, fought a three-year war.  I just kinda ignored the "what alliances have you thrown out of their space without Haargoth, goons?" post because it was silly, but let's not let that meme develop legs.   Some of these we booted out twice, and I cannot remember all the Feyth/PS/Esoteria ones.

[setar]

I am not talking about directors, Endie. The ability of GS in general to show up in force in one week, then gradually completely disappear during the campaign is basically a meme by now -- how many times did other alliance have to show up to bail you out? Remember the RAZOR and RAWR pilots asking they they were having more pilots in fleet than GS?

Anhow. I'd love to hear what you guys think the option are. We could have had Providence capture the systems linking HED to -A- space in Catch, and it is doubtful they'd stopped there. We could have just retaken our systems, but they'd just been as vulnerable once we reset our neighbours or roadtrip to the North. We chose to make a stronger point, take D-G and then stop for negotiations.

As for the future, it's going to take months to resolve this fight. Don't think anyone is worried about being surrounded by blues because nobody has the faintest idea what the map will look like at that stage. Maybe IT resets us, maybe new neighbours move into Querious... we'll worry about stagnation when the situation arises, not months in advance.

[eldaec]

I am not talking about directors, Endie. The ability of GS in general to show up in force in one week, then gradually completely disappear during the campaign is basically a meme by now -- how many times did other alliance have to show up to bail you out? Remember the RAZOR and RAWR pilots asking they they were having more pilots in fleet than GS?

This is all getting dangerously close to hurf blurf, but with GS, participation is more closely linked to how good the op post gimmick is than anything else, so it careers wildly up and down throughout campaigns. Also, seriously, you're posting that from AAA, who's leadership can't stay focused on the same war for more than three or four days, never mind the general membership.

[Sparky]

I am not talking about directors, Endie. The ability of GS in general to show up in force in one week, then gradually completely disappear during the campaign is basically a meme by now -- how many times did other alliance have to show up to bail you out? Remember the RAZOR and RAWR pilots asking they they were having more pilots in fleet than GS?

Goons had just spent a ~month camping one station pretty much solo with hundreds of people downtime to downtime.  Honestly I don't think AAA get to call out goons for being ADD either.

[setar]

That's what I'm saying, eldaec. Glasshouses and all. Also, see previous posts -- I'm probably one of the more pessimistic guys within the alliance when it comes to our ability to execute on mid- to long-term strategies.

[dingusxavier]

This game may fucking suck, but I'll never forget those evenings spent in PR-, listening to the snail facts guy (celot?) read the count of monte cristo over teamspeak.

When goons are properly motivated they have quite a bit of stamina I think.

[Comstar]

AAA should ally with ROL and ATLAS to invade Delve for Delve War IV in a perfect repeat of Delve War I.

[Endie]

Evoke are, apparently, evaccing their stuff to Empire. :(

They'll make someone in the South a very good renter.  I understand that they are very efficient at getting the most out of reaction chains.

[dingusxavier]

Hahaha are you fucking serious? They're giving up just like that?

[tgr]

You know, that sounds eerily familiar, I wonder where I've heard that before...

And if I'm going to be serious for a second here, I can't help but think maybe ev0ke might have made a bit of a boo-boo of this process. I mean, they've wardecced us either while or right before they began the evacuation, that doesn't sound like the best/most productive combination of actions to me...

[dingusxavier]

Hey now, goons lasted a couple weeks.

[setar]

Someone in GS forgets to pay the bills, and as a result BOB II moves back to Delve, Atlas returns home, -A- invades Providence, ev0ke evacuate to empire and TRI failcascade their way to Mark IV.

Oh my.

[tgr]

Only one thing missing from this picture...

"There are no goons. Goodbye."

[Simond]

Nah, this time around it's "There is no CVA. Goodbye" from -A-

[slog]

So who is fighting who now?  I'm totally lost.

[eldaec]

CVA is fighting AAA.

IT is fighting inanimate objects.

NC continues to fight Tri

Evoke is evaccing, while Goons are fighting two dozen annoying empire wardec corps.

Atlas is now somehow involved with :theeast: as ever, all the alliances over there have contradictory standings and just roam about treading on rakes.

[jape]

NC continues to fight Tri

According to scrapheap, TriCo already failurecascaded (again).

[Sir T]

This is relevant to this thread vis a vis Tri

http://www.kugutsumen.com/showthread.php?5564-The-Vale-Thread&p=65902&viewfull=1#post65902

ermm yeah i was gonna be all smug and vague like my hero viper sjizzle but failure cascade works quick i suppose.

As you might know or read is that the backbone of our tactic was that we keep NC occupied while Atlas sweepes 2 regions. NC would go back to Atlas and we would go attack again. Hey i didnt think it was a bad plan and its why i endured so much bullshit lately but logging in less and less personally because of dominion server and not because of politics.

As allways mr. Bobby Atlas has decided to turn his back on his allies and offcourse i warned Endeva and others months ago he was a untrustworthy cunt but i chose to be a grunt so there is only so much they are willing to accept from a grunt. Standard hierarchal bullshit you find anywhere tbh.

Bobby contacted sister bliss from Init saying he was going back south and he should prolly do the same but if he could please not tell tri about that decision. At the same time endeva's computer or router/ some hardware breaks and he cant be online much. Doom tonight decide to leave x-7 after we agreed wednesday we aint leaving and just ride bikes for a week. R A also decide to leave and not tell the alliance, R A might leave tri alltogether from what i hear.
So i get wind of that and rumour has it that NC will be basing from x-7 for a while to keep us passive. Bope also evacs thanks to my corp talkings, after a few carrier jumps apparantly twinky comes online and finally a alliance wide decicion is made to go back to Aunenen. Some Nc titans jump in and kill a carrier who was evacing but 90% of the alliance left x-7 by now.
I have never seen a npc station based alliance failure cascade so fast and im eating all my last posts now on this forums.

Im really so far beyond caring i dont even care if they kick me over this post. Its just the most retarded shit i have ever seen. The logs and mails ill keep to myself but i can back everything i said above.


As i have said on tri forums:

Dear FOTM faggots,

The flavour is gone.
Tri is back to its normal perpetual fail cascading you can all leave again.

It was brief but fun.

Possible new FOTM corporations or alliances are:

# Euphoria Released is back!
# Tank ceo is spotted online again!
# Sys k is taking a whole new region!

And offcourse the 120 spies who joined over the last 4 months can now also leave again.

<3

Sacul

Tldr: Fuck Bobby atlas. All hail Tri N+1

[setar]

As someone who had the 'pleasure' of working with TRI multiple times I'm not quite ready to lay all blame at Bobby's feet. And even if he's responsible I approve. TRI wouldn't be the same if they'd not increase their version number by one each year.

Edit: Already contradicted by Sister Bliss:

There was never any request by Atlas to hide anything from Tri in any sense, so I don't quite know where this has come from (and more importantly doesnt map to any conversation I had with Endeva). Knowledge of Atlas plans post-Geminate conquest have been widely known amongst most ldrship types, so should be no surprises to anyone.

That's Sacul for you, though.

[Phildo]

Karttoon is back from vacation, but it's still too early to see how things will really shake out.  It seems like he intends to remain CEO of Goonswarm, which will be interesting to watch over the next few days.

[Kageru]

So the real question will be whether the loss of space has a morale / membership impact.

That said, is it possible for an alliance to engage in large scale PvP from NPC space? I'd assume that sources of funding and the ability to reinforce your space are less available?

I'm also unsure why some of the posts are saying goons are heading to NPC space while the wiki identifies syndicate as being 0.0. Is it possible to be both NPC space and 0.0?

[Kitsune]

NPC pirate factions control little patches of 0.0.

[Kovacs]

NPC 0.0 has NPC soveriegnty, unconquerable stations and unimprovable space via Ihubs.

[Endie]

So the real question will be whether the loss of space has a morale / membership impact.

That said, is it possible for an alliance to engage in large scale PvP from NPC space? I'd assume that sources of funding and the ability to reinforce your space are less available?

I'm also unsure why some of the posts are saying goons are heading to NPC space while the wiki identifies syndicate as being 0.0. Is it possible to be both NPC space and 0.0?

Yeah Syndicate is NPC 0.0, like Curse, Venal and part of Delve.  But worse.

Here's the unvarnished truth:

The situation is currently that head retard Karttoon is intent on staying, backed up by some mid-level directors, each of whom is pretty unpopular in their own rights.  Others of the more worthless and invisible directorate members are staying quiet, but no doubt are saying to Kerttoon in private that they are happy for him to stay.  Sweeping change would see several lose their jobs.

On the other side, The Mittani has been pretty clear that he thinks Karttoon should go, and is probably the second-most popular director right now, after Darius.  Darius is trying to give Goons direction, but Karttoon has refused to hand over to him, which was the plan.

Karttoon has basically posted once to make a weak joke about his fuckup, to say it wasn't his fault, and to fail to address the fact that the majority of Goonswarm clearly wants him and his coterie out.  Karttoon has never communicated much with Goons, though, so the fact that he can't be bothered now is no surprise.

Basically, part of Goonswarm is still trying to get their stuff out of Delve.  Part is losing that stuff to NPC pirates and wardecs.  Part is in Syndicate wondering wtf to do.  And the rest are camped into Orvolle by Ev0ke.  Mister Vee and DBRB are trying to organise stuff in the face of Karttoon's silence.

How are the mighty fallen.

[setar]

Would be surprised if this is more than a phase, though. That's one of the strengths of having an out-of-game cohesion; you always have something to fall back to. Might lose some of the recent arrivals and corps, but at the core it's an alliance that would be almost impossible to break up.

[Endie]

Oh it's not a problem for Goonfleet or even for Goonswarm.  But we'll not be fully effective until our glorious leader retires to gimmick mackinaws in highsec.

Edit: not a huge long-term problem.  Right now it's a crippling one.