War

[eldaec]

A cruiser sized blackops ship, that would be a cool concept!

And then they could call it a Falcon.

To be fair, it's hard to think of a BS sized PvP ship that justifies the massive cost of a Tech 2 BS without horribly breaking the game balance (as a straight BS-SuperHAC type would likely do).

A more robust logistics ship that operates as an effective on grid space priest without needing 6 of you coordinating spider cap.

Or a BS sized command ship with buffs have a bigger impact, but not sustainable indefinitely and only affecting ships within a radius of you (-30% lock time, costs similar cap to an MWD).

Or any kind of decent debuff vehicle - current e-war is all too binary, it either locks the other guy out or has no effect. Have the BS use new high slot modules with obvious easy effects like reduced rate of fire/resists/speed etc on a target and anything in a radius of target.

A platform designed from the ground up for smart bombs and EWar burst.

Ultra-heavy interdictors.



The cost of a T2 BS is a problem (though this can be tweaked, it is not as if Black ops or Marauders are too cheap), and many concepts might be better suited to more T1 hulls (which would be even more awesome). But there are plenty of ideas out there.

[ajax34i]

EWar has been nerfed a couple times, hasn't it?  Guess it's the same trend as in other (PVP) MMO's - nerf the crowd control.

[Jayce]

Januari 2009 : after reading for a long time about all those great 0.0 wars in this very thread, I decide to look around for a alliance to join so I can discover that part of Eve too. I end up in IRC, wich gets totally robbed by Goonswarm only a month later, and decimated by Russians + Goon support afterwards.

June 2009 : After taking a break from that 0.0 thing, I decide to play my trade alt a bit more to generate more isk for my future solo play. I end up in rig manufacturing, but I need some decent blueprint research. So I join New Eden Research with my alt corp and started some long research jobs 3 days ago...

 

I think it's been already broken long ago, and if not who cares: turns out it was some guys in IRC that robbed IRC and allowed a Goon to (willingly) take the fall.  Worked out well for both, since the perps got away without being identified and GS got a bit of leverage to use in the war, which was still going on at the time.

[setar]

Do we have someone from TCF participating here? Kinda curious.. one of the many problems that BOB's pets were facing was the constant drain of good pilots to BOB corporations, or the outright departure of the more active PvP corps who did not like being told what to do. Seeing how some of the NC-affiliated entities are stagnating it seems both large powerblocks will have to deal with this issue in some way or another.

Most recent example: TCF losing about 400 people, among them the founding corp Section XIII. Not sure whether they really took 160 bill as a farewill gift, or whether they really plan to join PL, but it's another change to the alliance landscape in an environment where it is difficult to achieve anything without friends. Lots of 'em.
 

[Sir T]

Of course the non "NC alliliated alliances" are filled with dynamism and pulsing with curning positive energy. Nice spin.  

Anyway the utterliy terrible transation that was splattered allover CAOD as another sign of the coming goon apocalypse (or something) seems to indicate that TCF is pretty mich drifting apart rather than shattering, as there was little binding them together other than "bieng french." Which to be honest seems to be a natural progression of a very successful national based alliance that has reached the end of its lifespan.

Actually Stain Empire seems to be in a bit of a decline right now, wheras Sys-K and by extention Coven are getting very restless of late. I guess the horror stories of Goonies rampaging all over them didn't come true, so there is sod all holding stainwagon together. The outside fear is gone, and Serlordex's money isn't flowing as much anymore, at least not their way.

[setar]

Not an NC-only problem at all. It certainly affects all tenants or pets (I thought the BOB example made that kinda obvious...). It's a mix of the pet/renter syndrome and not much happening in general other than some skirmished over R64s. I *hope* we see lots more of this. Smaller, active entities sound a lot more interesting than big powerblocks.

Only alliance where I don't see this happening is GS due to the out-of-game cohesion. Add the raw numbers, the ability to probably leverage the DUST system more than an entity that is EVE-only, and a push away from anti-blobbing tools like DDs and it should get quite interesting. Though that is a lot of theorycrafting. With a tinfoil hat.

[Endie]

Not an NC-only problem at all. It certainly affects all tenants or pets (I thought the BOB example made that kinda obvious...). It's a mix of the pet/renter syndrome and not much happening in general other than some skirmished over R64s. I *hope* we see lots more of this. Smaller, active entities sound a lot more interesting than big powerblocks.

Only alliance where I don't see this happening is GS due to the out-of-game cohesion. Add the raw numbers, the ability to probably leverage the DUST system more than an entity that is EVE-only, and a push away from anti-blobbing tools like DDs and it should get quite interesting. Though that is a lot of theorycrafting. With a tinfoil hat.

Fair analysis, and i agree with your previous post about the dangers to themselves of PL of leeching blue talent.  In fact, that's been raised on the GF boards.  Still, anything that causes instability in the universe right now is fine by me.  Except, say, one of our GS holding corp directors disbanding the alliance and losing us all our sov.  That would be an exploit and would suck.

As you say, GS is in a decent position regarding not stealing too much talent from our allies.  I did hear a rumour that ZAF had been offered membership back when they were smaller, but decided to stay independent.  I think that was a very smart move by them.  Rebellion have the language thing: only OEG could even take them, and they're almost certainly aware that they're better off in their own, ethnic/language-based community.  In general, the backlash against another pubbie corp joining GS would be so great that it would have to be an extraordinary candidate to be accepted.  I suspect that Section XIII might have had a decent chance, but a KIA corp probably wouldn't.  In any case, as you suggest our SA volkische Heimat, our relatively low turnover of members (I know that was the case historically, at least) and the high return rate that comes with people staying as vacationers on the forums means that we don't have to look elsewhere as aggressively as others for recruits.

Also, I hope that the timer on the titan weapon is cut massively, or else nobody will ever use them on the field and I'll never get to kill one.  I'm also intrigued as to whether motherships will be made worthwhile, since I've been put off buying one every time I've had approaching the right amount of cash since it's a one-way ticket to perma-repping.

[setar]

Yep, looking at the (very minor) drama posts via CAOD (here and there) it seems PL are indeed suffering from the same problem as everyone else: boredom, lack of targets, and general irritation with the political situation.

And they should be in a much better position because they at least get a chance to hotdrop the NC every now and then just for the fun of it. I doubt -A- would try that on the Stain residents, but than we've got Providence to blow off some steam every now and then.

[rand]

i actually like the current state of eve, i've found small gang stuff is a lot better that gigantic alliance wars. i had more fun farming scorched earth than i ever had at any point during the Querious timezone pos grinds. we still get a stream of faggots coming in from stain, fountain and catch every day to party with us in delve, 0.0 owns and its far from boring at least for me

[Sir T]

Ironically, stability generates the small gang warfare everyone likes. Its pretty much the way things always go. Once the borders are settled its basically constant skirmishing to seal them. That was basically European history for centuries. IAC and FIX had their own little PVP phony war going for well over a year.

When you realize the opposition wont go all in but are more than happy to PVP for fun and not for increasing virtual dick size, it becomes a lot more chill.

[setar]

Agreed, and I understand many are interested in skirmishes. Not my kind of thing, and there is a difference between small gang warfare and small-scale wars. What I would like to see is not months and months of roaming, but alliance vs alliance. An environment where MH and eVoke can fight over territory, and either MH shapes up, or loses and gets kicked out. Where GS and Atlas can go for each other's throat without dragging in PL, Razor, -A- and the Stain folks.

In short, an environment where you can have a player-driven storyline without crashing the nodes.

[NiX]

I see your point Setar, but at the same time war is about your allies and to want just your alliance versus another would have to be a change in how warfare is thought of rather than a change to a game mechanic or the atmosphere being played in the game. Logistically and strategically it only makes sense to surround yourself with many a powerful people.

[trevorreznik]

It's more of a numbers thing than number of allies thing.  The 'best' fleet fights, to me, had around 50 bs per side on grid, or like 20 dreads.   When the numbers scale up really high, ships die way too quickly, and I find that less fun as either a fleet pilot or an FC.

[Endie]

The best fleet fights for me were the gf vs stain ones in esoteria. UNL turned up later on for at least one, and stain had atlas and sys-k/coven to even the numbers, but those two sunday afternoon fights were amazing. Better even than the first 9-9 in all ways except the amazing "wtf we bloody won!?!" Factor that one had. And slightly better than the last, huge running fights vs the GBC on the waagaa/molle day in delve.

To an extent, though, I'm like Setar: I'm in it for the grand, sweeping storylines and the drama of the Great Game. The relaxed, roaming stuff leaves me a bit cool. So I do spying stuff to keep assets in play for the next fight, and make money so I can fund an offensive, again.

[setar]

In the meantime hostilities continue in a somewhat muted manner. All reinforced Khanid POS got repaired without any incidents as GS/PL didn't seem to be able to muster enough people in the area. Most likely because their active pilots are focusing on supporting RA vs Atlas (don't think there's still much home defense going on?). PL is about the get an influx of new members from TCF and are rumoured to go on attack again after the alliance tournament. Sure hope it doesn't stay this quiet until then, though.

[Endie]

In the meantime hostilities continue in a somewhat muted manner. All reinforced Khanid POS got repaired without any incidents as GS/PL didn't seem to be able to muster enough people in the area. Most likely because their active pilots are focusing on supporting RA vs Atlas (don't think there's still much home defense going on?). PL is about the get an influx of new members from TCF and are rumoured to go on attack again after the alliance tournament. Sure hope it doesn't stay this quiet until then, though.

In the light of the radical changes that have supposedly been leaked so far (I think I read them on Kugutsumen) I think that most people are now in a holding pattern for a couple of months, building strength.  So unless Scavok posts on SHC that he is going to take Impass next week there'll probably not be a huge amount of large scale drama until then.

[Endie]

Official: the future face of alliance warfare: http://forums.f13.net/index.php?topic=17757.msg702548#msg702548

Also, 1/4 a million hits on this one thread.

[Endie]

Scavok demonstrated our gauche nouveau-riche inability to take care of our nice things by hotdropping a huge HAC fleet with capitals.  I haven't looked at a battle report but I think we lost nine or ten caps and killed impressively little.

Edit: oh and RA killed a BNC (ex-BoB corp for those who dunno) titan.  Just like old times. http://kb.redalliance.ru/?op=kill&id=353280 (nice drops, which were scooped before the wreck was popped)

[setar]

I was just going to post that. Damn :)

In other news (not really, actually) GS now confirmed no major ops until the Sov changes hit; NC is making similar noises. Looking forward to quite boring next two months.

[Slayerik]

ROAM IF YOU WANT TO! ROAM AROUND THE WORLD! ROAM IF YOU WANT TO ! WITHOUT ALL THE BLOBS AND THE SYSTEM LAGGGGGGG!

[setar]

Couple more R64 in reinforced, two already changed hands, we'll see whether there will be some battles. Also, this post from SHC made me realize I am out of touch with politics:

In a comedic series of events that are close to giving me an aneurysm, TNT has been expelled from the eastern coalition (which had consisted of TNT, Minor Threat, RA, XXDEATH, and Controlled Chaos to a lesser extent.

It seems that after the ZLO dypsro moon exited reinforced this evening, KARMA and Goons reset TNT, destroyed the tower, and replaced it with a KARMA one.

Additionally, after everyone went off to do their own things, a HAC gang (I unfortunately don't remember who) reinforced the new tower before the proper amount of stront was added, leading to a hilariously russian friendly timer.

Is that another example of Atlas-style diplomacy, or was there an incident with TNT? Add the CO2-Reset by Vuk (admittedly only after the WEPRA exodus) and the North might get interesting again.

[Endie]

Couple more R64 in reinforced, we'll see whether there will be some battles. Also, this post from SHC made me realize I am out of touch with politics:

In a comedic series of events that are close to giving me an aneurysm, TNT has been expelled from the eastern coalition (which had consisted of TNT, Minor Threat, RA, XXDEATH, and Controlled Chaos to a lesser extent.

It seems that after the ZLO dypsro moon exited reinforced this evening, KARMA and Goons reset TNT, destroyed the tower, and replaced it with a KARMA one.

Additionally, after everyone went off to do their own things, a HAC gang (I unfortunately don't remember who) reinforced the new tower before the proper amount of stront was added, leading to a hilariously russian friendly timer.

Is that another example of Atlas-style diplomacy, or was there an incident with TNT? Add the CO2-Reset by Vuk (admittedly only after the WEPRA exodus) and the North might get interesting again.

I had a quick look but I goetta be honest with you, our diplomatic team is involved in a lengthy and distracting troll war with our FC and his unlikely but opportunistic allies from Epsilon that started over a different but equally abrupt standings change but has now devolved into the annual Goon Civil War, so nobody really has any time for actual eve stuff.  It would be really handy for getting this time of traditionally awful posting over with and hauling us back to playing Eve again instead if you could invade us like this time last year tia?

[setar]

Hah Got this feeling we're more interested in grabbing a bunch of extra R64 for that extra bit of cash that they'lll generate in the next two months or so. I see us shedding territory once the patch hits, not expanding it towards Q/Delve.

[rand]

looks like aaa got the zlo and gge moons that we took from them along with the ones in khanid that PL had taken during the I1Y weekend of 0wnage. what exactly was the reason for resetting TNT and handing an r64 to the Southern Coalition on a plate?

[MahrinSkel]

Everyone is looking ahead to Dominion and asking "Where is our Core Space, and who is going to be our *actual* neighbor there?"  Some alliances the answer is obvious (Goons and Delve, for example), others may be realizing that the best potential place to centralize in the new regime is currently occupied by a nominal ally/subordinate.  Musical chairs ala the Drone Regions leadup, as players in the Great Game jockey for positions they think will be stronger later.

Lots of turf that has been being held simply for R64 moons or to deny it to an enemy that is no longer a concern, lots of mutual interest based alliances that won't serve any purpose in a few months.

--Dave

[Skullface]

Everyone is looking ahead to Dominion and asking "Where is our Core Space, and who is going to be our *actual* neighbor there?"  Some alliances the answer is obvious (Goons and Delve, for example), others may be realizing that the best potential place to centralize in the new regime is currently occupied by a nominal ally/subordinate.  Musical chairs ala the Drone Regions leadup, as players in the Great Game jockey for positions they think will be stronger later.

Lots of turf that has been being held simply for R64 moons or to deny it to an enemy that is no longer a concern, lots of mutual interest based alliances that won't serve any purpose in a few months.

--Dave

So two months of quiet is out the window as they draw the lines for Great War 3?

Good, because this thread's been too quiet! 

[trevorreznik]

Couple more R64 in reinforced, we'll see whether there will be some battles. Also, this post from SHC made me realize I am out of touch with politics:

In a comedic series of events that are close to giving me an aneurysm, TNT has been expelled from the eastern coalition (which had consisted of TNT, Minor Threat, RA, XXDEATH, and Controlled Chaos to a lesser extent.

It seems that after the ZLO dypsro moon exited reinforced this evening, KARMA and Goons reset TNT, destroyed the tower, and replaced it with a KARMA one.

Additionally, after everyone went off to do their own things, a HAC gang (I unfortunately don't remember who) reinforced the new tower before the proper amount of stront was added, leading to a hilariously russian friendly timer.

Is that another example of Atlas-style diplomacy, or was there an incident with TNT? Add the CO2-Reset by Vuk (admittedly only after the WEPRA exodus) and the North might get interesting again.

I had a quick look but I goetta be honest with you, our diplomatic team is involved in a lengthy and distracting troll war with our FC and his unlikely but opportunistic allies from Epsilon that started over a different but equally abrupt standings change but has now devolved into the annual Goon Civil War, so nobody really has any time for actual eve stuff.  It would be really handy for getting this time of traditionally awful posting over with and hauling us back to playing Eve again instead if you could invade us like this time last year tia?

wait what?  why would epsilon be siding with DBRB, that's preposterous

[Endie]

wait what?  why would epsilon be siding with DBRB, that's preposterous

Scavok, not da berb.  I didn't say head FC.

[trevorreznik]

wait what?  why would epsilon be siding with DBRB, that's preposterous

Scavok, not da berb.  I didn't say head FC.

oh right.  that i can kinda see, i was pretty flabbergasted

so what happened i'm always curious about epsilon shenanigans, and it's pretty rare for many of them to agree with an fc over anything

[Endie]

wait what?  why would epsilon be siding with DBRB, that's preposterous

Scavok, not da berb.  I didn't say head FC.

oh right.  that i can kinda see, i was pretty flabbergasted

so what happened i'm always curious about epsilon shenanigans, and it's pretty rare for many of them to agree with an fc over anything

:siren: Goonfleet dot com leak :siren:

Scavok was running a joint op to defend a tower of one of our temporary, shitty allies in former Atlas space (Controlled Chaos, I think, but they all merge into one).  Just as hostiles were considering turning up, Zapawork resets them*.  I believe our capitals were, at this time, inside their tower when everything went grey around them.

Disgraced former God Emperor Zapa had been working on his cult of personality recently by posting lots of logs of him being all space-important, so his timing was provocative.  The much-discussed hivemind which is Epsilon, dedicated as it is to the establishment of a viable fifth column and, ultimately, to the downfall of Goonswarm, decided that "our diplomats deny us Good Fights" was the right angle to take.  Which was fair enough even though opinions vary on whether any of them would have been logged in at the time.  This blossomed into a general directorate call-out thread.  Which again is fair since much of our directorate is comprised of anonymous and tediously dreary sinecure-holding friends of friends of the people who were directors years ago.  Only Kartoon and DBRb

Vio or Mittens dug up Maitsu's myspace, which immediately provoked a storm of "how dare you post a call-out against one of us?!?"  Goetta and Maitsu actually got a bit carried away, which is a shame because Goetta ended up convincing himself of the purity of his cause and getting all serious about it, goatseing the thread and getting a perma.  When he's not overplaying his I Hate Goonswarm gimmick he's a good poster.  Allegedly a bunch of Epsilons were set read-only in SGBS, though that sounds like a troll.  Goetta joins FNLN in the outer darkness (though FNLN is actually able to view Rho, read-only, which is the only funny thing Solo has ever done).

Don't you miss it all?  Having read the AAA forums, they are terrible and never offer such weekly soap-opera brilliance.  I don't see how competence at Eve makes up for that.  It'll be like this pretty much all the way up until Dominion hits.

*Edit - explanatory note - one of the Controlled Chaos guys was camping a system and shooting Goons at that time.  The fact that he then immediately joined AAA just emphasises how a certain bearded diplomat got played.

[Sir T]

Hell. By the looks of things I should start posting again 

[Simond]

Allegedly a bunch of Epsilons were set read-only in SGBS, though that sounds like a troll.

It wasn't Epsilons, it was "People in the vacationer group (who trolled the thread)". Admittedly that's damn near the same thing as "Epsilon", but it's the principle that matters.

Or something. 

[trevorreznik]

Allegedly a bunch of Epsilons were set read-only in SGBS, though that sounds like a troll.

It wasn't Epsilons, it was "People in the vacationer group (who trolled the thread)". Admittedly that's damn near the same thing as "Epsilon", but it's the principle that matters.

Or something. 

if an epsilon plays eve, does anyone notice

who's in charge of goonswarm now?  I thought zapa was in charge but that post seems to show he isnt anymore

[Sparky]

dramabomb

Wait a second now - a Rho(boo) dude poasted the thread and scavok himself was raging on page one.  The Epsilon hivemind, none of whom play Eve so weren't there, didn't get wind until it was a broiling dramabomb with a life of it's own.  Can't really pin this on those epsifucks although of course they did make plenty of hay as "Bloated parasitical director overclass ruining fun for the common goon and pissing off people who do all the work" is an attractive theme for those types.

Also I'm disappointed this isn't all over CAOD yet with Snot Shot predicting imminent demise for Napswarm.

[Endie]

I wondered if you'd be up to speed on that when I posted it. Zapa retired over a month ago (I think) and fun-but-is-he-a-one-trick-pony Kartoon took over. Zapa was our worst CEO since rem left, and I include mittens in that (since mittens saved us from returning rem's horrors before the wilderness of mirrors paranoia took over). Zapa attempted to change gf dot com culture by prescription.