StarCraft II

[RUiN 427]

What do you mean by cheese? You trying to proxy rax each game or something?

nah, just marine rush

[Malakili]

What do you mean by cheese? You trying to proxy rax each game or something?

nah, just marine rush

Early marine pressure with an expansion behind it is hardly cheese.  But regardless, you can probably win a lot of Bronze league matches just by showing up at your opponents base early, a lot of people have a hard time preparing for early pressure.  I friends'd you as well, so feel free to message me in game if you see me on.

[Fordel]

Yea, that isn't cheese, that's just attacking.

Like Malakili said, attacking is usually enough to win a bronze match.

[Ironwood]

It's easy to fend off an early marine rush - Just use Battlecruisers.  If you don't have them, maybe Brood Lords.

[RUiN 427]

Quick question: how many marines do you wait for before you push?

I've got my openign build down super tight, but i never know if i'm going in with too few.

[Malakili]

Quick question: how many marines do you wait for before you push?

I've got my openign build down super tight, but i never know if i'm going in with too few.

I don't play Terran myself, but the key is hitting a timing where the amount of marines you have is awkward for them to defend.  V. zerg you often see bunker rushes with just a couple marines and more reinforcing.   V. Protoss it is usually better to wait a bit and hit before warp gate really kicks in. 


There are also some other all in builds that are like 6 or 7 rax marines all in, but I don't know the precise timing on that one.

[El Gallo]

No such thing as an all-in from Terran unless you bring all your SCVs.  Fucking mules. 

Slightly more seriously, if all you care about is laddering I suggest going with this http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=223517

[Malakili]

No such thing as an all-in from Terran unless you bring all your SCVs.  Fucking mules. 

Slightly more seriously, if all you care about is laddering I suggest going with this http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=223517

That week after that TL thread was the worst week of my life.

[slog]

Bunker Rushes are getting a slight nerf, but as a Zerg I find it less difficult than it used to be to defend them. 

[RUiN 427]

No such thing as an all-in from Terran unless you bring all your SCVs.  Fucking mules. 

Slightly more seriously, if all you care about is laddering I suggest going with this http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=223517

This is some stinky cheese right here. Just got called a faggot for using it.

[Malakili]

 Just got called a faggot

Welcome to the ladder.

[Eldron]

Yeah i got called a few nasty things when i tried it as well. Works best against protoss and zerg or have i just been bad against terran?

[Malakili]

Yeah i got called a few nasty things when i tried it as well. Works best against protoss and zerg or have i just been bad against terran?

Terrans are probably walling off which makes it a little easier to hold.

[RUiN 427]

Yeah i got called a few nasty things when i tried it as well. Works best against protoss and zerg or have i just been bad against terran?

Terrans are probably walling off which makes it a little easier to hold.

I've just been focusing down 1 depot and then after i breach they usually gg

[Rasix]

So, what's the cheese ratio when laddering at lower ranks now?  I'm wondering if I should even bother laddering for practice (work league, lol).   Although apparently I should get used to defending it since more than half the league are terran.

[RUiN 427]

So, what's the cheese ratio when laddering at lower ranks now?  I'm wondering if I should even bother laddering for practice (work league, lol).   Although apparently I should get used to defending it since more than half the league are terran.

it's not that bad, just be ready for early aggression

[Malakili]

I'd say about 10% of my ladder games are cheese.  Like, 6 pool, or all in bring your SCVs type stuff.  There are lots more one base all ins on top of that, but I don't generally consider those quite the same way.

[Fordel]

I'm currently rocking Silver Random and have yet to have someone actually cheese me. Though I don't play many games so it may be sample size, I have maybe 100-150 games total so far?


It may also be because I am usually the aggressive player. I have a rule, at 10 minutes game time, box all my combat units and attack something. Not all in, but I will poke at their ramp or their expansion if they managed to make one. This is like half my wins right there.

[Malakili]

I'm currently rocking Silver Random and have yet to have someone actually cheese me. Though I don't play many games so it may be sample size, I have maybe 100-150 games total so far?


It may also be because I am usually the aggressive player. I have a rule, at 10 minutes game time, box all my combat units and attack something. Not all in, but I will poke at their ramp or their expansion if they managed to make one. This is like half my wins right there.

Maybe cheesers are moving up in leagues due to their cheesy wins, I honestly have no idea though thats purely a guess.   Attacking at the 10 minute mark wouldn't really deter cheese though.  The things I'm talking about usually hit pretty darned early, like 3-4 minutes, not 10.  I'm not sure when that 3 rax marines hits, but also quite early I think.  I don't know the numbers in my head, but I think the max supple is 27 with that build? and what is it , 12 SCVs? So that comes out to 15 marines off 3 rax will come out in something like 2.5 -  3 minutes.  So it probably hits   So I'm guessing around 5ish minutes, give or take?

EDIT:  I'd say in a normal week I see a few cannon rushes, a few proxy gateways (both of these from people fed up with PvP usually, I can relate, heh), a few 6 pools, especially on big maps i think people want to punish nexus first or other FFE builds which are popular, and I rarely see super early pressure from Terran anymore, mainly because I think there are more powerful one base builds for Terran v. Protoss (like 1-1-1).

[RUiN 427]

That 3 rax rolls out around the 4:30 mark

[Fordel]

It could be the cheesers are just moving up in leagues yea.

[Malakili]

It could be the cheesers are just moving up in leagues yea.

It seems possible, but it is possible to be bad at cheese, so you'd think there would be some in all leagues.  Especially in a sample size of 150 games.  Oh well, consider yourself lucky :)

[Fordel]

MLG Orlando is starting up right now: http://www.teamliquid.net/mlg/ (links to streams, live report threads, twitter etc)

Lasts all weekend, four streams (only two are free). Tasteless and Artosis on Red stream, Day9 and Wheat on Blue. Husky and JP are around there somewhere too.

As usual, TL.net has the writeup : http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=275209



Official Site if you want that for some reason: http://pro.majorleaguegaming.com/live/starcraft_2

[Malakili]

Should be a good tournament, looking forward to this one.  Stephano has given the foreigners a little bit of hope, but I'm still expecting a Korean sweep of at least the top 3.

[Fordel]

I'm rooting for MKP, apparently he was sent to the tourney on the reddit group thinks dime or something?

[Fordel]

You can watch the BlizzCon and GSL finals on the Blizzcon stream for free. If MVP wins both finals, he'll walk away with 100,000 grand this weekend. 

http://us.battle.net/blizzcon/en/live-stream/

[Malakili]

New HotS multiplayer units revealed:

[spoiler]
http://i.imgur.com/u0T5R.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/uAvmT.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/qZR1c.jpg

[spoiler]

Looks like Lurker and Defiler are back - just is a bit of a new form.

Mech gets a buff for Terran.

Protoss get a scouting/harass unit and another capital ship, and this unit that lets you copy a unit. 


No particular problems here, but I don't quite understand the purpose of giving Protoss another mothership-like unit.

[Fordel]

The Mother-ship is gone is why. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=277762


There are a lot of changes, Hydra's made to not suck, flying defiler isn't really a defiler it's using the web thing from the corsair.



Best change though, is new kind of destructible rocks! Collapsible rocks, that BLOCK paths when destroyed.

[Malakili]

The Mother-ship is gone is why. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=277762


There are a lot of changes, Hydra's made to not suck, flying defiler isn't really a defiler it's using the web thing from the corsair.



Best change though, is new kind of destructible rocks! Collapsible rocks, that BLOCK paths when destroyed.

Yep, just caught up with the info pouring out.  Changes actually look pretty decent across the board.


Here is HotS trailer for people who haven't seen it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SG_3R9BoVvg&feature=player_embedded#!

[Ingmar]

No carrier makes me sad. Not that I really play much multiplayer, but it was always my favorite unit just feel-wise.

[Malakili]

No carrier makes me sad. Not that I really play much multiplayer, but it was always my favorite unit just feel-wise.

They didn't really serve a useful role in the Protoss army as they stood in SC2.  I think that they could've tweaked it instead of replacing it, but honestly, I've never really seen a carrier made in a game that wasn't already effectively won by the Protoss player, so something needed to be done one way or another.  They aren't AWFUL, but they didn't really have a point either.

[Fordel]

Build time, Cost, Cost of Interceptors, Cost of replacing interceptors.

All put down by a dozen marines 

[Malakili]

Build time, Cost, Cost of Interceptors, Cost of replacing interceptors.

All put down by a dozen marines 

Is there anything in the game not put down by a dozen marines

[Fordel]

Two Dozen Marines.

[sinij]

No carrier makes me sad. Not that I really play much multiplayer, but it was always my favorite unit just feel-wise.

They didn't really serve a useful role in the Protoss army as they stood in SC2.  I think that they could've tweaked it instead of replacing it, but honestly, I've never really seen a carrier made in a game that wasn't already effectively won by the Protoss player, so something needed to be done one way or another.  They aren't AWFUL, but they didn't really have a point either.

Carriers are nice damage soaker for archon/zealot army against zerg, if for some reason they are hydra-heavy and cliffing or creep kiting. Otherwise, yes you don't use them much.

On odd thing is that they are supposedly removing mothership but turning Thor into 1-per unit. ?.?