StarCraft II

[Malakili]

I really do feel sorry for the protoss guy

Comedy replay of the week.

I read the description and that was enough.  People should at least have good etiquette enough to leave when they've lost.   Now, there is a fine line in some cases, and most of the time I don't mind if someone tries to stick it out as long as they can, but there is a difference between that and just being a jerk.

[Mosesandstick]

Is there a way to watch replays without SC2?

[Rasix]

I don't think there is.  There might be a hack to do so offline if you can get the client. 

You're likely at the mercy of youtube and bliptv if you can't do that.

[Rasix]

I've got a new favorite stream. Trump is a rank 1 diamond terran player who devotes a ton of time on his stream to helping noobs and explaining builds/game analysis.  He's pretty much awesome, although admittedly if you don't play terran you won't get nearly as much out of it.   Regardless, as I've recently switched to random, I'm finding his stream absolutely invaluable in improving my horrible terran play.  http://www.livestream.com/trumpsc

Everytime I watch his stream he's getting his ass kicked. I must have bad timing or something.  He seems very intelligent with good APM, he just gets beat a lot.  He's not a pro, so I guess it's to be expected.

[Rendakor]

Finally started playing this again; hadn't touched it since beta. Went 3-0 on my practice matches, then some bad I won with decided we should do 2v2 together.  Bad call agreeing to that on my part; we both ling rush, utterly fuck the toss opponent, kill his pylon, many of his probes, etc. All in all a good harass; I mass lings for another round to seal the deal, but my retard friend decides to tech to hydras. I think he had about 3 out when their counterattack finally killed us.

Is SC2 like WC3 in that Random 2v2 (or whatever) is relatively easy, but Arranged Team 2v2 results in burly men?

[K9]

Random and arranged go in the same pool afaik, so a good teammate should be better for you than a random. Just go into with your random 2v2 with the assumption that your teammate is an abject moron and just play as best you would.

Also, from lings you should probably tech to mutas. Spend gas on your mutas and burn all your spare minerals on more lings. Muta-ling is incredibly annoying to fight off as zerg or protoss, you're just so mobile.

[Malakili]

Zerg v. Zerg feels really awful right now.  Does anyone have any suggestions besides getting more speedlings and/or banelings than your opponent?

I play random and I'm also finally getting to the point where I feel like its hurting me, as I don't have quite the sense of the timings of all the matchups as the people who play only one race and have a really good feel for all 3 of their matchups.  Meanwhile, I'm trying to learn 9.  Still, I'm convinced it will make me a better player in the long run, so I'm just going with it.

[Ratman_tf]

Well, my very first multiplayer game! Can mommy put it on the fridge for me?

http://www.angelfire.com/ak4/ratman/SC2/Xel_Naga_Caverns.SC2Replay

I've got a tourney and figured I'd actually better start playing some multiplayer instead of kicking the AI around all the time. 

[Rasix]

Which one were you?    Looks like typical beginning bronzish play.  Nothing wrong with that.

[Ratman_tf]

Which one were you?    Looks like typical beginning bronzish play.  Nothing wrong with that.

Konig, sorry.  

My next 3 matches I got stomped good, putting me in my proper place in bronze level. And one guy just quit after a few seconds. I guess his porn finished downloading.

http://www.angelfire.com/ak4/ratman/SC2/Metalopolis.SC2Replay
http://www.angelfire.com/ak4/ratman/SC2/Delta_Quadrant__3_.SC2Replay
http://www.angelfire.com/ak4/ratman/SC2/Blistering_Sands__3_.SC2Replay

[Rasix]

Just some general tips:

Make a gateway after your pylon (at like 10 or 12 supply for cheese protection).  Get a zealot or two out early against protoss and zerg and a stalker for terran (reapers/hellions). You don't want to fight a person like you fight the AI unless you're going to totally wall off and warp in past your wall off later.  A cannon is one less gateway.

Try to keep your money low (units, tech, pylons, gateways, whatever) and avoid getting supply blocked.  Don't worry about making your pylons so spread out, you'll just make it easier for someone to snipe one and power down a bunch of stuff.

edit:

Watched another replay:
-Definitely let your cash get too high.   
-Chronoboost your probes.  It's easy to just hit c and target your Nexus.
-Try a build order like (the numbers are your supply count (always make probes)):

9 - Pylon (send probe to scout)
10 - Gateway
12 - Gateway
14 - Gas
16 - Pylon

That's a simple two gate which can help you defend a lot of lower level cheese and help you be agressive when you want to.  You'll want a cybernetics core pretty soon after your gateway finishes.   Flesh out the rest with whatever you need, but try to always be building up your army and producing probes.  You can go 4 gates (considered to be all in cheese by most), 3 gates and a robo, 2 gate and a starport or whatever.

[Ratman_tf]

Just some general tips:

Excellent. TY. Any advice for playing Zerg? I've got the 6 lling start down, but that's crap against a decent wall off.

[K9]

I do like the 14 Pool, 15 Hatch opening for zerg. If you're not being rushed it gives you a very solid platform to just pump out a lot of units. Just don't forget to build some units (spine crawlers are really good in the early game) to cover your mineral lines from harass.

[Malakili]

Just some general tips:

Excellent. TY. Any advice for playing Zerg? I've got the 6 lling start down, but that's crap against a decent wall off.

If the opponent walls off then make some extra lings for map control, and expand and simply out macro him.  Terran mech is pretty brutal against Zerg right now though, I'd suggest going ling/hydra/infestor and using neural parasite on his thors.  Send a bunch of lings into the draw the fire of his mech army, then pop the parasites, then burn stuff down with your hydras.  If he is turtling on one base, you can win a battle of attrition, he'll get to a point where he has to expand or he is in big trouble, meanwhile you are free to take a few bases and spread creep all over the map.

Just in general:  You don't need to play to win NOW, you can play to win in 5 or 10 minutes.  You don't need to smash into an opponents wall all game just because he walled off.  Wait until he moves his army out and try to fight it on creep where you have an advantage.  Then if you win that fight he'll be low on units to defend and you can overwhelm his wall in.  Bring overlords with your army (overseers or get overlord speed so you aren't waiting all day) so you can shoot at the high ground helps to break walls as well.

[Paelos]

Do many people actually play Terrans in multiplayer? I've yet to run into one. It's been 60/40 zerg/toss in all my games.

[Rasix]

Do many people actually play Terrans in multiplayer?

Too many.

[Malakili]

Do many people actually play Terrans in multiplayer? I've yet to run into one. It's been 60/40 zerg/toss in all my games.

It seems like a lot of people get their feet wet on Terran because its in the campaign, but probably switch out later on.  I think I've seen less Terran since getting promoted to Platinum though.  Just looking back and my recent games my last 10 games have been v 6 zerg, 2 terran, 2 protoss.

Odd actually, since zerg feels a little squishy in the current metagame.

[Zetor]

After I finish the campaign (and do the placement matches to take my well-deserved last spot in the bronze league ) I'll probably be playing terran to start because that's all I have experience with from the campaign (except for the protoss sidetrack thing, but eh). This might be true for others as well...


edit: bah, beaten

[slog]

I've been playing terran in the Bronze league.  10 wins and 18 losses!

I basically fall apart completely once the game passes the 15 minute mark.  I've no idea how to do the advanced tech, and I don't know many of the units.

[calapine]

Dumb question ahead:

What does 'Get 3 probes/SCVs per mineral patch.' exactly mean?
a) That this is the right amount so every mineral is mined all the time, while the other drones are en-route.
b) Or that that one mineral patch can be mined by 3 probes at the same time?

Bonus Question:
c) What's your rule of thumb numbers of workers?

Also, is no one bothered by the zoom level?
I realize its done to achieve a level playing field, but playing this on a 26'' screen is painful. If it just showed a biiit more of the map.  
One might say criticizing the graphics and shiny effects on a game like this is missing the point, but I disagree. SC 1 selling point weren't the graphics either, but it never felt outdated back then in 1998. SC 2 does, to an extend its diminshing the enjoyment of the game. (imho of course). A shame.

Cala

[Wolf]

Slog - a couple of tips i gave my colleague that she's been using and tearing copper up with. Always build scvs, you will never have enough. Every time you remember just queue a couple up. As soon as you think the game is getting longer (10-15min) get two starports and start getting some battlecruisers. As soon as you have 4 move out with all your stuff and you'll likely kill them :)

Re workers - that's total. On a normal map you have 8 mineral patches - that means you should have a full control group (24) of workers for full saturation. Keep in mind there are diminishing returns so it's much better to have 16 in your base and 16 in your expo than 24 and 8. I try to consciously stop myself at 60 drones so i have some supply left for army. I often fail at that and end up with 75-80 drones :)

[bhodi]

As wolf says, if you haven't expanded, ignore the maximums. Always build more than you can use and then transfer (roughly) half to your new expansion as soon as it completes.

While looking at your mineral patch, Hold CTRL and click on one of your SCVs. If the box is full, you've got a full saturation. If, next to it, you have a (1) and (2), and you can hit tab and it flips to the 2nd control page, that's how many extra you've got.

If you've been constantly building SCVS, having more than 1 page indicates you need to expand and is a good indicator that you're being too passive.

[Malakili]

Slog - a couple of tips i gave my colleague that she's been using and tearing copper up with. Always build scvs, you will never have enough. Every time you remember just queue a couple up. As soon as you think the game is getting longer (10-15min) get two starports and start getting some battlecruisers. As soon as you have 4 move out with all your stuff and you'll likely kill them :)

Re workers - that's total. On a normal map you have 8 mineral patches - that means you should have a full control group (24) of workers for full saturation. Keep in mind there are diminishing returns so it's much better to have 16 in your base and 16 in your expo than 24 and 8. I try to consciously stop myself at 60 drones so i have some supply left for army. I often fail at that and end up with 75-80 drones :)

This will probably win you games in bronze, but the teching up to BCs is a huge resource and time investment and you are going to have a small to moderate army in the meantime.  If you are terran anyway, I'd burn a scan or 2 on his base to make sure he isn't going to over run you with some huge army in the meantime.

[Arrrgh]

Which custom maps are good?

[Mosesandstick]

If you have somewhere been 16-24 gatherers, take a bunch of them to an exp, do the remaining ones automatically reorganise so that they're efficient (i.e. 2 or less per crystal)?

[Ingmar]

I feel you on the zoom level, it is just sliiiiightly too close in for my tastes as well. Doesn't really bug me in the campaign but doing FFAs against AI I start to feel it a little. (I am too weak to play against people.)

[Ratman_tf]

If you have somewhere been 16-24 gatherers, take a bunch of them to an exp, do the remaining ones automatically reorganise so that they're efficient (i.e. 2 or less per crystal)?

I believe so. I let the workers organize themselves, and they seem to do alright.

[jakonovski]

Does the supply number in those build orders mean that you should fill the gaps with resource collectors?

[Rasix]

Does the supply number in those build orders mean that you should fill the gaps with resource collectors?

Usually.  You'll  only have enough supply/time to get out one zealot after the first gateway completes and before you start your second pylon.  I didn't extend out the 2 gate build very far.   People with a build orders into the 50+ supply count are nutjobs. Based on your scouting, you'll know if you're about to be cheesed and should react appropriately (ie cut probes and start getting out some defense).

I'm never very exact either.  Take in mind that with any build order you're going to run into stuff like aggressive scouting, proxy bunkers/pylons/gateways, and various cheese rushes.  Makes it difficult, but it's good to keep in mind that while dealing with any early aggression, you need to keep your economy going.  That way when you hold it off, you'll be ahead.

[slog]

How many SCVs do I put on each Gas?
How many per mining shard thingy?

[Ingmar]

3 on each I think. If your placement is weird you might need an extra guy on the gas (if you're far from it or something). I think in both cases the 3rd guy isn't adding as much as the 2nd.

[Malakili]

How many SCVs do I put on each Gas?
How many per mining shard thingy?

3 on gas, 2 on mining, but keep building extras so you can move them to your new base as soon as it goes up rather than having to build more AFTER your new base is up, in which case you've wasted tons of time.  This act of building extras and then moving them is known as "maynarding" (i guess the guy who did it in original SC  first was named Maynard), so if you see anyone talking about that, this is what they mean.

[Rasix]

It's still 3 on mining too, I believe, it's just not the optimal number. I think over 2 you're still getting some benefit.

At first, since it's hard to see, once you get your gas up, transfer 3 workers to it right away.  With toss, don't just hang your probe around the assimilator while it builds.  b -> a  (place it) shift-click a mineral patch (always shift click a mineral patch after building something so you don't have a lot of idle probes sitting around).  Terran will already have one there.  I'm not sure what the hell zerg does  

[Rasix]

I've been playing terran in the Bronze league.  10 wins and 18 losses!

I basically fall apart completely once the game passes the 15 minute mark.  I've no idea how to do the advanced tech, and I don't know many of the units.

You can continue to do damage with a solid Terran core throughout the game.  Marine - marauder - medivac (MMM or the bioball) can last you for quite a while and is pretty easy to manage at lower levels.  Easy to add ghosts into that mix, especially if you're playing against Protoss, where EMP will really make a huge difference.   Just make sure you're adding on barracks as you progress to continue to pump out units.  

Another nice core I see is marine, tank, raven (or viking). That one is just brutal and can do some nice early pushes. You're safe from a lot of different techs.

edit: Keep in mind, I don't play Terran currently and when I did in beta I was a lot worse than I am now.  

[Ratman_tf]

It's still 3 on mining too, I believe, it's just not the optimal number. I think over 2 you're still getting some benefit.

The number in teamliquid's site is 2.25.  Their advice for making workers is that if you have to ask when to stop, you need to make more workers.