Cataclysm

[Paelos]

And if we accept the proposition that the horde population has more PVPers in general, that would explain why their line is worse than the alliance, who are at pretty high levels. Evidence fixing PVP should be near the top of their list maybe?

Possibly. Their regard for pvp was certainly slacking in this expansion given their rather ham-fisted attempts to balance Baradin Hold. Still, I think the most important thing to take from the graph is that the "shine is off" so to speak. People have finished pounding the content already and settled back into their normal play times, if we assume that last year was normal.

In my mind that means that Rift may have fallen ass-backwards into some great timing.

[Ingmar]

Could be. Everything I hear about Rift PVP makes me think that it isn't going to be able to really capitalize on those people (class that can take people from 75% to 0% in one hit and this is being discussed like a good thing?) long-term but who knows, I haven't actually tried it myself.

[caladein]

One thing to note about that graph that I should have mentioned when I linked it: that huge downward spike in December is a result of their submissions being either off or limited to 1-80 for most of the month.  I would guess there would have been a slightly higher peak there that's come down through January and February.

That said, the only accident of Rift's release date (and I wouldn't be surprised if it was intentional as well) was having their game ready to go for the first couple of months of an odd numbered year.

[Fordel]

In my mind that means that Rift may have fallen ass-backwards into some great timing.

Better lucky then good? 

[Sheepherder]

That said, the only accident of Rift's release date (and I wouldn't be surprised if it was intentional as well) was having their game ready to go for the first couple of months of an odd numbered year.

If this was a Machiavellian plan to steal Blizzard's thunder then the timing is so catastrophically off as to bode ill for any further management decisions that Trion might make.  Betting against Blizzard making nice gradual steps into the raid game would not have been considered prudent four months ago.

[apocrypha]

given their rather ham-fisted attempts to balance Baradin Hold.

Slight diversion, but whilst their initial fixes were, indeed, steaming turds, they do seem to have got it pretty well sorted now. On my server the battles are always close, hard-fought and a surprising amount of fun now.

As for sub drops, it's odd. Activity in my guild is low, but we're the world's smallest guild anyway. Most people I know in other guilds are saying their activity is down too. I see more of my ReadID list playing SC2 than I did pre-Cata, that's for sure. However the server itself - trade chat, cap cities, world zones, etc - feel busier than ever.

Orgrimmar is so busy these days that people have taken to spreading out in the city, using the Tauren, Troll and Goblin areas as their bases more because Valley of Strength is just too crowded. It seem busier than even Dalaran did at peak, and this is on a 2:1 Alliance:Horde server.

[Malakili]

given their rather ham-fisted attempts to balance Baradin Hold.

Slight diversion, but whilst their initial fixes were, indeed, steaming turds, they do seem to have got it pretty well sorted now. On my server the battles are always close, hard-fought and a surprising amount of fun now.

As for sub drops, it's odd. Activity in my guild is low, but we're the world's smallest guild anyway. Most people I know in other guilds are saying their activity is down too. I see more of my ReadID list playing SC2 than I did pre-Cata, that's for sure. However the server itself - trade chat, cap cities, world zones, etc - feel busier than ever.

Orgrimmar is so busy these days that people have taken to spreading out in the city, using the Tauren, Troll and Goblin areas as their bases more because Valley of Strength is just too crowded. It seem busier than even Dalaran did at peak, and this is on a 2:1 Alliance:Horde server.

My guild is definitely more active than ever.  Part of this is a policy change that allows for an official "community" type member (for retired raiders like myself, but also for family of current raiding members, etc).  So, we have our core raiding group that is still the main focus of the guild, but we have a bigger purely casual population in the guild as well now.  This is the first time I've been really disciplined about playing WoW casually, out of pure necessity this time around, and its actually pretty decent that way for now.

[Rendakor]

I moved out of the Valley of Strength not because it was crowded, but because things are much closer together in the Tauren area. The AH and Bank are like, 10 steps away and it's all outside so you can stay mounted.

[Paelos]

I see people doing ridiculously well and loving the hell out of the expansion, and I see guilds who have completely fallen apart and been absorbed by others. Then there are guilds like mine which tried to get a 10 man going, but fell apart because the healers didn't like the new mechanics and quit, and we now just casual along slowly raising our guild level through dailies.

I don't get a lot of middle ground feel from the expansion thus far in terms of endgame. If you're in a raiding group, you seem to love the changes. If you're not and tried to get in one, the expansion seems to draw nothing but ire from that group. If you're a pvper you're pretty pissed at the way they've gone. If you're a leveler, you are most likely a happy camper with the changes, although I've heard undercurrents of people getting bored because it's too easy to level now.

[Ingmar]

This is the first time I've been really disciplined about playing WoW casually

While I know what you mean, this made me laugh.

[Paelos]

Heard a funny post today on the forums. It was in another thread about difficulty or recycled or whatever whiny thing, and people trying to define what Cataclysm was/should be. The funniest response to me:

"Cataclysm is Wow's mid-life crisis."

The more I thought about it beyond chuckling, the more I wondered if that was true if you think about it? Things had gone down a road they weren't happy with, so they changed things up to recapture some of that lost youth.

[Lantyssa]

It is true.

[Sjofn]

My biggest problem as a leveler is I get to 60 and I have to go to Outland. I fucking hate Outland. Northrend isn't so bad once I get there, though. Dalaran is hilariously empty.

Leveling is almost too fast before Outland (and starts to feel a little slow once you hit Northrend), but I wouldn't call it boring. I can see how if you insist on not skipping zones, though, it would start to get dull because everything is green to you (and eventually grey) and thus no challenge at all. I totally skip zones, personally, I just make a mental note to hit it on my next pass through. This may be why I've been ignoring the shit out of my Alliance server, I only have two characters below 40, so when I miss stuff I know it'll likely stay missed because fuck going back at level 85 to do level 20 quests.

[Malakili]

My biggest problem as a leveler is I get to 60 and I have to go to Outland. I fucking hate Outland. Northrend isn't so bad once I get there, though. Dalaran is hilariously empty.

Leveling is almost too fast before Outland (and starts to feel a little slow once you hit Northrend), but I wouldn't call it boring. I can see how if you insist on not skipping zones, though, it would start to get dull because everything is green to you (and eventually grey) and thus no challenge at all. I totally skip zones, personally, I just make a mental note to hit it on my next pass through. This may be why I've been ignoring the shit out of my Alliance server, I only have two characters below 40, so when I miss stuff I know it'll likely stay missed because fuck going back at level 85 to do level 20 quests.

Outland scares me, I literally haven't been there in a long time, I started Cataclysm with 30 70s and 2 80s, and a few lower level alts but i haven't gone anywhere near there yet.   I think with proper rested abuse I shouldn't have to stay there very long though.  Hellfire and Zangarmarsh are pretty easy, and Nagrand is an exp fountain.  with luck I won't have to go to any other zones.

[Typhon]

I think this time you should try to avoid Zangar and Nagrand - Nagrand especially.  The "kill 20 X" quests are soul-crushing.  Your character will have flying this time through, and the mountains and tempest especially are a great deal easier with flying.  The only reason to do Nagrand would be to get the ethereal faction... but the only reason to get that is for crafting and items that are obsolete with Wrath, so, yeah, not so much.

I guess I'm recommending that you do the zones that you have done the least in leveling up.  Probably you've run Zangar and Nagrand multiple times already.

[Rokal]

I didn't mind outlands when I went through on my Worgen druid. Sure, it sucked to go from new stuff back to 4+ year old content, but with heirloom gear and guild exp buffs it went by pretty fast. I finished HFP, Zangarmarsh, a few dungeons, the blood arena in Nagrand (which was like 1/3 of level 77 for 6 mins of work with an 80 guildy in tow, highly recommended), then ~15 quests in Terrokar and I was off to Northrend. Overall it only took ~2.2 zones to get from 58 to 68. Getting flight at 58 helps a ton, HFP was much more pleasant with flying from the start. Northrend, in comparison, took much longer (almost 4 entire zones) which is made worse because you can't head to Cataclysm zones any earlier than 80. The quest flows in Northrend are a little better than Outland, but I've always found the zones in Outlands to be a little more interesting.

[Merusk]

I'd agree, particularly if you have heirlooms.  My mage's run through Outland was; most of the quests at the starting fort in hellfire, 1/3 of the stuff at Cenarion, the Throne of the Elements & Telhmat in Nagrand, then off to the starting area of Blade's Edge before finishing off in Netherstorm because I'd done SMV too many times. I did 4 total dungeons on her.. the first two in Hellfire and then the Crypts and then Mana Tombs in Anurachdown.

The next run through of a character I was going to hit Terrokar instead of Zang and maybe finish the zone so I could skip Nagrand entirely.   The only reason I jumped through so many zones was because I wanted to keep quests in the yellow range.  You fly through the place these days.

[kaid]

I see people doing ridiculously well and loving the hell out of the expansion, and I see guilds who have completely fallen apart and been absorbed by others. Then there are guilds like mine which tried to get a 10 man going, but fell apart because the healers didn't like the new mechanics and quit, and we now just casual along slowly raising our guild level through dailies.

I don't get a lot of middle ground feel from the expansion thus far in terms of endgame. If you're in a raiding group, you seem to love the changes. If you're not and tried to get in one, the expansion seems to draw nothing but ire from that group. If you're a pvper you're pretty pissed at the way they've gone. If you're a leveler, you are most likely a happy camper with the changes, although I've heard undercurrents of people getting bored because it's too easy to level now.

That pretty much is what happened to our guild. Our healers hated the healing change and quit and the guild kinda floundered after that.

[Kail]

I think this time you should try to avoid Zangar and Nagrand - Nagrand especially.  The "kill 20 X" quests are soul-crushing. 

They're not that bad, now, IMO, and I hated them originally.  The kill count has been lowered to something like 12, and he's standing in the middle of a field full of them, and the zone is so empty you won't have to compete with many other players to reach the tally.  Plus, with various buffs and stuff, a lot of classes can pretty easily solo the final "reccomended group [2]" quests in the three chains for some nice gear.

Also, dungeons give nice XP if you're rested.  Like, half a level for a single run.

[Miasma]

I keep seeing threads talking about how in 4.1 the items currently on the valor vendor will move to justice and valor will get better items but I can't find a single official thing from blizzard saying so.  I've never really stuck around long enough for a content patch after an expansion so is this just something that normally happens or are all the people assuming it will happen wrong?

[Ingmar]

I keep seeing threads talking about how in 4.1 the items currently on the valor vendor will move to justice and valor will get better items but I can't find a single official thing from blizzard saying so.  I've never really stuck around long enough for a content patch after an expansion so is this just something that normally happens or are all the people assuming it will happen wrong?

The whole point of going to the valor/justice point system instead of different badges for each tier was to do that, so if they don't do it, it would be a big departure from their stated plans.

[Paelos]

The point was to move the items when a new tier of raiding released. I don't believe a new tier is coming with 4.1 though so I doubt it's going to move valor items yet.

[Ingmar]

The point was to move the items when a new tier of raiding released. I don't believe a new tier is coming with 4.1 though so I doubt it's going to move valor items yet.

Firelands is releasing, you think it will be same tier as the existing stuff even though the new heroics are moving up in gear level?

[Paelos]

The point was to move the items when a new tier of raiding released. I don't believe a new tier is coming with 4.1 though so I doubt it's going to move valor items yet.

Firelands is releasing, you think it will be same tier as the existing stuff even though the new heroics are moving up in gear level?

The patch notes doesn't include Firelands as being released in 4.1, unless I misread them. The dungeons being added are ZA and ZG revamped.

[Ingmar]

It is certainly possible it has slipped, but I'm assuming it just isn't on the PTR yet for now.

[Paelos]

It is certainly possible it has slipped, but I'm assuming it just isn't on the PTR yet for now.

Agreed that they left it open with the "More to come" line. Blizzcon reported that it was coming in 4.1 but they may not be releasing it until the end of testing for mystery.

Until it goes in there, I am concerned why they didn't frontload with it.

[Sjofn]

I think this time you should try to avoid Zangar and Nagrand - Nagrand especially.  The "kill 20 X" quests are soul-crushing.  Your character will have flying this time through, and the mountains and tempest especially are a great deal easier with flying.  The only reason to do Nagrand would be to get the ethereal faction... but the only reason to get that is for crafting and items that are obsolete with Wrath, so, yeah, not so much.

I guess I'm recommending that you do the zones that you have done the least in leveling up.  Probably you've run Zangar and Nagrand multiple times already.

They reduced the kill 30 Nagrand quests to some random number, like ... kill 12 or something. Hellfire -> Zangarmarsh -> Nagrand is generally how I do it as Horde, because the quest flow in Zangarmarsh is much nicer than as Alliance, in my opinion. I also like Nagrand as Horde, because it has like ... story and shit. As Alliance I'm a lot more random, because the whole thing is a giant wtf detour for them, so it doesn't matter as long as I get the fuck out as fast as I can.

[caladein]

It's not on PTR yet, but there's all sorts of Firelands-related gear/models in the PTR files that MMO-Champ has dug up.

[Rendakor]

Did you miss the big dumb picture of Ragnaros that's going around? Firelands is most certainly coming in 4.1.

[Paelos]

Did you miss the big dumb picture of Ragnaros that's going around? Firelands is most certainly coming in 4.1.

It's not on PTR yet, but there's all sorts of Firelands-related gear/models in the PTR files that MMO-Champ has dug up.

Sort of my point there, guys. If they are patching in the files, and the gear, and the models, with them plastered all over MMO Champion (a site that's obviously well-watched by a huge part of the WoW population) what's the hold-up with an announcement?

I mean even a "ZA and ZG released for testing now, Firelands coming later on in the month!" would be something. It's like they just don't even bother addressing it. I'm not saying it's not there for absolutely certain, I'm just wondering how much of it they plan on actually testing in 4.1.0. I don't like their track record with holding back content and hoping for the best when it hits live, or if it's coming in 4.1.1

[Rokal]

It's the same strategy of slowly giving out more information about upcoming content or an upcoming game that every game company uses. If you throw all of your information out there at once, you have nothing else to tell players a month later when your content still isn't out. Slowly giving out information in a controlled way allows you to build hype and maintain interest for a much longer period of time.

I expect we'll see 4.1 in late April, maybe even July. They could have waited until early April to spill all the 4.1 beans, but how many players would get bored between now and April without any tangible proof that new content to look forward to was coming out? How many players would say "Well, I've seen what Cataclysm has to offer me, and who knows when new stuff will arrive or whether it will even be stuff I'm going to care about. Maybe I'll check out Rift."

As for whether Firelands will be out with 4.1, I believe it was announced way back at Blizzcon that it would be included in 4.1

Edit: We will probably see Firelands hit the test servers in 3-4 weeks. Then they will have more information to dole out and keep people interested in the game. They will definitely be testing Firelands on the PTR.

[Paelos]

Yeah I can understand that. The big picture of Raggy sort of kills that strategy, I think. If you are planning on delaying a bit, people get pissed because they have seen those data mines. If you finally release the information 3-4 weeks from now, people just go "about damn time, we knew that already."

[Sheepherder]

Did you miss the big dumb picture of Ragnaros that's going around? Firelands is most certainly coming in 4.1.

Blizzard has been caught before including data several patches in advance.

Incidentally, I wonder how that will look after shaders.

[Ingmar]

Did you miss the big dumb picture of Ragnaros that's going around? Firelands is most certainly coming in 4.1.

Blizzard has been caught before including data several patches in advance.

Incidentally, I wonder how that will look after shaders.

[Lakov_Sanite]

Good god....not enough  smilies in the world for that.