Cataclysm

[Zetor]

I was wondering why our guild was getting such a crazy low amount of xp (we have about ~8 people actively leveling, some of us are hitting 85 today or tomorrow). fffuuuu....

... it's ok, I didn't want 10% faster rep gain anyway. 

[Ironwood]

Um, this isn't the case for us.  We're slowing down, but it's due to the weekly cap and the fact that most have hit it already.

I'm not seeing anything else that's changed yet.

[Ingmar]

Pretty sure we are still capping, but we're pretty active right now, usually 10-15 people on.

[DraconianOne]

The small amount of content is kind of perplexing. In particular, having two 80-82 zones seems really odd when there's so little quest content in general.

There was a lot (read: A LOT) of development time/effort wasted on the new worgen/goblin zones.  Each were roughly four hour experiences that will never, ever, be usable again.  I know the same could be said for some of the other starting zones, but I'm not sure why they went so far out of their way to create these zones that are already dead.  

Feel free to quote source to demonstrate otherwise but I sincerely doubt that the Goblin/Worgen zones were the main drain on resources considering they were entirely overhauling the vanilla world to make it flyable and fill it with new content. Don't start saying how it would be an easy job either because we had this conversation 130 pages ago with Sheepherder helpfully demonstrating the WC3 terrain tool - and that was before we found out that they were entirely remodelling the world too.

But to follow your point, they'd already created the DK starter zone which was dead after you'd finished it and the general feedback from players that I was aware of was "Woah! That's so cool!" so them doing the same for two new races is absolutely no surprise.

[Ingmar]

They made something like 3000 new quests for this expansion, which is I think over double what it was for any prior expansion. Only about 800ish of those are in the 81-85 zones I believe. The new 1-60 is where the rest are, and the goblin and worgen intro zones are only a tiny part of that.

[Rasix]

I think it's only a bit over a 100 quests in the goblin zone if I'm remembering correctly.

I was a little blurry eyed at the end of it, because I did it all in one sitting.

[proudft]

Not blurry eyed from tears of joy at the whole thing?

[Hawkbit]

That's cool.  Inc more stuff we only use for a few hours, then.  You're right, the DK stuff was used for only a few hours.  To me, though, it was only a small part of a zone for roughly two hours, complemented with seven other zones to look forward to.  This one has at least four times the amount of content that will be shuffled aside quickly, followed by only five zones for upper leveling.  

My point being:  I'd rather have two extra 85 zones than two 1-10 zones.  Especially if they add in an Argent Tourny type daily quest hub (sans jousting).  In a couple of months when all thats left to do is LFD or roll an alt, I think a lot of people will want the same.  

This xpac content reminds me of an on rails shooter like Bioshock.  Linear story.  No reason to go into the world other than to get from quest giver to quest ender.  It's not an open world anymore.  

Oddly, archaeology has been my favorite part of the xpac because it gets me out into the world and exploring.  I'm not trying to talk badly about the old world changes, as I think they're mostly positive.  There's just something... off with this xpac and it isn't sitting well with me.

[Rasix]

Not blurry eyed from tears of joy at the whole thing?

Well, Lost Isles was pretty nifty.  That part was easily the best race introduction I've done, even if there was a bit too much hoofing it.

But really, I'm just built for 4 hour long + sessions of gaming anymore.

[Ingmar]

Especially if they add in an Argent Tourny type daily quest hub (sans jousting).  

There is a daily hub (Tol Barad).

[DraconianOne]

They made something like 3000 new quests for this expansion, which is I think over double what it was for any prior expansion. Only about 800ish of those are in the 81-85 zones I believe. The new 1-60 is where the rest are, and the goblin and worgen intro zones are only a tiny part of that.

Going by the Ally quest achievements, there are 618 quests to do across the five 80-85 zones compared to 875 for the 8 Northrend questing zones and 568 for the 7 Outland zones.

[Ingmar]

Right, plus dungeon quests, plus the horde ones that are different, etc., and you end up around 800ish.

[Rasix]

Plus there's usually a handful over the achievement requirement.

[kaid]

Especially if they add in an Argent Tourny type daily quest hub (sans jousting).  

There is a daily hub (Tol Barad).

Tol barad is the main daily hub but some of the other reps have a fair amount of dailys as well. Therazane in deepholm has a lot of daily quests to work on.

[kaid]

Plus there's usually a handful over the achievement requirement.

Or in the case of twilight highlands a good deal more than a handful left after you "complete" the zone.

[Threash]

Apparently Cata sold 3.3 million copies, on the first day.  Inc 15 million subs in oh... i'd say three months.

[kildorn]

Especially if they add in an Argent Tourny type daily quest hub (sans jousting).  

There is a daily hub (Tol Barad).

Tol barad is the main daily hub but some of the other reps have a fair amount of dailys as well. Therazane in deepholm has a lot of daily quests to work on.

The wildhammer have a daily hub as well. I haven't found the ones for Hyjal or Vash yet.

[Ingmar]

There are a number of faction dailies as well, yeah. Tol Barad is supposed to be the new Isle of Quel'Danas - there were 6ish dailies when I went there, which seems a little light but if more open up as you increase your Baradin Wardens faction then that is pretty much the same thing I guess.

[K9]

I found about 11-12 dailies on Tol Barad, six in the fortress (assuming you have control I guess) and the rest on the other half of the island by the portal.

On another note, has anyone found any useful applications for leap of faith yet? Or is this going to be a niche ability limited to high-end arena play?

[Ingmar]

There's always 'make a macro to pull that one idiot dpser who always stands in fire out of fire'.

If it existed last expansion, I might have the Undying title. 

[K9]

Saving retards from stuff they should be saving themselves from is not my job, and I haven't seen anything unavoidable yet 

[kildorn]

I found about 11-12 dailies on Tol Barad, six in the fortress (assuming you have control I guess) and the rest on the other half of the island by the portal.

On another note, has anyone found any useful applications for leap of faith yet? Or is this going to be a niche ability limited to high-end arena play?

A boss surprise punted me into lava and I got yanked out once <3

But beyond me not knowing he knocked back(turns out I parried it every other time I'd tanked him  ), I haven't seen much non pvp use for it.

[Ingmar]

Beauty is not a him.

[caladein]

On another note, has anyone found any useful applications for leap of faith yet? Or is this going to be a niche ability limited to high-end arena play?

It's useful in the same kinds of situations as Intervene so aside from the obvious "someone standing in or in the path of fire" there's nice applications whenever you need to kite something.  First time the latter really came into play was a few bosses in the new Ring of Blood (the Dwarf and the Worgen) where the tank would Intervene me, we'd break in opposite directions, and then I would snatch him over when the mob caught up with him.

I haven't played Holy or done any serious PvP since hitting 85 so I'm unsure if there are any extra special applications with those two.

[kildorn]

Beauty is not a him.

nah, big ugly at the end of BRC. I didn't notice there was LAVA behind him at first. Beauty's knockback is pretty tiny. This dude flat out PUNTS you.

edit: oh, and someone life gripped me once when I did a long corner pull of some casters.

[K9]

edit: oh, and someone life gripped me once when I did a long corner pull of some casters.

I actually quite like this idea. Guess I'll have to try and be a bit creative with it.

[Simond]

Um, this isn't the case for us.  We're slowing down, but it's due to the weekly cap and the fact that most have hit it already.

I'm not seeing anything else that's changed yet.

It's pretty clear if you look at the numbers when you complete a quest or whatever - guild xp is now 25% of 'real' xp when it was 100% of it at launch.

[Merusk]

Saving retards from stuff they should be saving themselves from is not my job, and I haven't seen anything unavoidable yet 

You could use it for the people who get knocked off the platform at the end of Lost City.   Or the guys who get knocked off the platform on the wind boss for Vortex Pinnacle.   

[K9]

The cost-benefit of running out of range of the tank to save a DPS who is taking no damage on fights without an enrage isn't worth it though.

[Azuredream]

On another note, has anyone found any useful applications for leap of faith yet? Or is this going to be a niche ability limited to high-end arena play?

Best use we have found so far is the first boss in halls of origination, after you pull the lever (normal or heroic) you can just pull them back up.

[Sheepherder]

Feel free to quote source to demonstrate otherwise but I sincerely doubt that the Goblin/Worgen zones were the main drain on resources considering they were entirely overhauling the vanilla world to make it flyable and fill it with new content. Don't start saying how it would be an easy job either because we had this conversation 130 pages ago with Sheepherder helpfully demonstrating the WC3 terrain tool - and that was before we found out that they were entirely remodelling the world too.

My assertion that old world flying wouldn't take that long to implement if they weren't aiming at filling all the zone margins with playable content doesn't seem too outlandish in hindsight, since they did an almost complete rebuild of 1-60 in two years.

[Minvaren]

Anyone else getting some pathing issues in Ruins of Vash'jir?  Z-axis issues and mobs fleeing through walls, reminds me of EQ...

(edit) Oh, I get it, it's a "tiered" thing.  But if I can charge around corners in dungeons, why can't I charge at a 10 degree vertical angle in an underwater zone?   

[Azazel]

I'm also assuming that in 6months or so they will either drop in a small new zone (re: Isle of Quel'Sunwell) or drop a new quest hub into an existing zone (re: Argent Tourney) filled with dailies to give players at cap something else to grind on do.

Or a new 3-wing dungeon, or who knows?

[Ingmar]

I'm also assuming that in 6months or so they will either drop in a small new zone (re: Isle of Quel'Sunwell) or drop a new quest hub into an existing zone (re: Argent Tourney) filled with dailies to give players at cap something else to grind on do.

Or a new 3-wing dungeon, or who knows?

Especially if they add in an Argent Tourny type daily quest hub (sans jousting). 

There is a daily hub (Tol Barad).

[Kageru]

Pretty sure their new model is "episodic content" (with a nod to how well that worked for half-life) so two years worth of content is all beaten in the first month. It's pretty much what EQ did except they achieved it by making final tier raid bosses brokenly overpowered and then "fixing" them after X months.